<p>sorry #59, you need an etiquette class - you can look without showing off for your friends - grow up</p>
<p>Exactly, parent1986, staring is a matter of etiquette, not something to get you arrested or expelled. Whoever puts staring in the same sentence as rape needs refresher course in common sense.</p>
<p>ok, just did a quick search… difficult to determine the stats re false accusations…no good studies and the numbers vary from 3% to 41% ( and obviously these could only be for reported incidences… while another concern as a woman is the number of unreported rapes…but that is another issue)… so according to parent 1986… these are obviously only against boys that were “bad” to begin with? i dont think so!</p>
<p>Your son could also be accused wrongfully of cheating on a test, stealing someone else’s property, or committing other wrongful acts. Why worry about a false accusation of rape more than any of the others? </p>
<p>Seriously, the odds that your S will be wrongfully accused of rape are a heck of a lot lower than those that a female college student will be the victim of rape, attempted rape, or some form of sexual harassment, intimidation or discrimination before college graduation day. </p>
<p>Reality remains the majority of college students of both sexes will not have to deal with any of these issues while they are in college.</p>
<p>because its the topic of this thread… i seriously doubt my son will ever face this…but that doesnt mean i cant have an opinion on the process</p>
<p>It seems to me that if the victim has the right to pursue the case in court as a criminal case where given the seriousness of the allegation it really should be prosecuted… then the alleged perpetrator would also have the right to counter sue in civil court if he/she were kicked out of college or had their reputation irrevocably harmed? Could a harmed perpetrator sue the college also? Seems like by putting the weight of what should be a criminal case into the hands of the college both the alleged victim and the college are putting themselves into a potentially litigious situation or am I reading this incorrectly? It feels to me that colleges wouldn’t even want to be making these kinds of distinctions.</p>
<p>momof3…it seems their federal funding will be affected if they dont.</p>
<p>Parent1986, I beg to differ. Please look at my Post # 40.</p>
<p>The accused in this case is a freshman boy. He was not hiring strippers. He was an honors student with a good reputation, who never been in trouble. </p>
<p>My MIL worked with a teacher who was accused of sexual assault by a student. He hanged himself. It eventually came out that the girl was mad about a grade and thought it would be a great way to get back at him.</p>
<p>When our kids were little, a friend warned us to alway be sure that <em>I</em> drove the babysitter home - not my husband. Their best friend had a babysitter who threatened to blackmail a dad by saying he touched her inappropriately in the car when he drove her home.</p>
<p>I don’t know why someone would file a false accusation of rape, but there are reasons and a few people do it. </p>
<p>It’s nice to believe that only “bad” people get accused of crimes. It’s especially nice to believe it when they’re accused of a crime with no witnesses, like date rape. But it’s not true. Innocent people do sometimes get accused. It’s a shame for the guys who are victimized, and a shame for all the women who are assaulted and then not believed when they report it - or won’t report it, for fear that they won’t be believed. But to assume all accusations are real, for the sake of political correctness, is wrong.</p>
<p>Believe me, I do worry about my daughter. We’ve taught her to take responsibility for herself, not to ever leave a drink unattended, and not to go home alone with someone she’s just met. I don’t know if she’d report a date rape if it happened - I would hope she would. But her friend’s case and the way it has been handled has opened my eyes to the reality of false accusations.</p>
<p>Jonri, you really don’t see a difference between a false allegation of cheating and a rape. You are making it difficult to have a rational discussion of this subject.</p>
<p>Lemaitre, Are you talking about a piece of meat, a celebrity, or an attractive student here?
Just because someone wants to dress up doesn’t mean gawkers like you can be rude and stare.</p>
<p>Read the DCL? This is in response to way above.
*OCR strongly discourages * [ie, does not prohibit] * schools from allowing the parties personally to question or cross-examine each other during the hearing. *
Also:
Throughout a school’s Title IX investigation, including at any hearing, the parties must have an equal opportunity to present relevant witnesses and other evidence. The complainant and the alleged perpetrator must be afforded similar and timely access to any information that will be used at the hearing.</p>
<p>Also, call me a party-pooper, but the reason staring et al is included is because, when done (let’s call it) to excess or in some perceived threatening manner, repeatedly, it can be a component of harassment. That’s not referring to the occasional flirtation.</p>
<p>The DCL states: * As explained in OCR’s 2001 Guidance, when a student sexually harasses another student, the harassing conduct creates a hostile environment if the conduct is sufficiently serious that it interferes with or limits [an accuser’s] ability to participate in or benefit from the school’s program.*
That means: when it’s more than an occasional stare. The whole thing is predicated on the hostile environment being created. In the sometimes backwards nature of legalese, the DCL says, the less severe the conduct, the more need there is to show a repetitive series of incidents to prove a hostile environment.</p>
<p>"Exactly, parent1986, staring is a matter of etiquette, not something to get you arrested or expelled. Whoever puts staring in the same sentence as rape needs refresher course in common sense.'"Schmaltz</p>
<p>Staring inappropriately, so as to make a female feel uncomfortable is sexual harassment, and you are one step away from rape. If you have boys, you are their role model. It creates a hostile environment.</p>
<p>I think a charge of sexual harassment will give you life time registry on a sex offender list, so be careful who you sexually harass. Comprends-tu?</p>
<p>
What’s the standard of proof for serious discipline in such cases. Are students who are accused of cheating expelled based on a preponderance of the evidence standard and prohibited from questioning their accusers? My problem with this is that the consequences for being “convicted” of this kind of misconduct are severe–in terms of impact on a person’s life, they are comparable, in my opinion, to an actual criminal conviction. And that’s the reason we need due process protections. We don’t put a person in jail because he “probably” raped somebody–I don’t think we should expel him either unless a higher standard is met.</p>
<p>In most states, sexual harassment does not lead to being on the sex-offender registry, and the length of time on the registry varies. Most sex offenders that are non-violent or or that do not involve children do not stay on the registry forever. Please clarify which state would put a sexual harassment conviction on the registry for a lifetime.</p>
<p>I don’t know, it’s pretty broad stroke language. I still think many colleges would not want to be in the position of determining something like this without a multiple step process that is fully documented. Think about how many colleges handle underage drinking…first time you might get a fine and warning, second time this or that and third time you’re kicked out of the dorm or the college… this is documented and there are multiple infractions and even potentially police involvement before a college does something that could be legally scrutinized. I’m hard pressed to imagine that a college would boot a student after one allegation by another student. I would think most likely there would be multiple steps…which is another reason that if someone wants to accuse someone else of something that is not legal, they should take it to the courts to determine and why I highly doubt colleges would put themselves in a potential legal situation civil or otherwise.</p>
<p>Seems to be a more likely reaction for a college if it was something more serious than a 1,2,3 you’re out would be to tell the victim, “let’s call the police, you can get a restraining order or talk to them about filing a charge.”</p>
<p>Oh my god, some of these comments are incredible:</p>
<p>“Staring inappropriately, so as to make a female feel uncomfortable is sexual harassment, and you are one step away from rape.”</p>
<p>There is not much I can say if you feel staring is one step away from rape. </p>
<p>Lookingforward, you keep quoting selective parts of the memo and conveniently leave out the relevant sections where they change the standard of proof, double jeopardy rights, etc of those accused of sexual harassment. The OCR can say whatever they want, however, it is the changes they are requiring all colleges to undergo that have most civil liberty advocates very worried.</p>
<p>staring inappropriately is one step away from rape???</p>
<p>Imagine having a jury of Nancy Grace, Wendy Murphy, Lookingfoward, Jonri and Parent1986 deciding your fate if you are falsely accused of sexual harassment or rape. You would be lucky to escape the electric chair.</p>
<p>I agree with Hunt. Due process, whether by the college or through the courts is missing and it feels like the potential liability is all on the colleges. Feels like the colleges will need to put some process in place to protect the students as well as themselves, much like there are processes in place at every college for academic dishonesty, dorm violations, etc. It would be interesting to see how the language changes in student handbooks.</p>
<p>The starring thing is especially vague…and can be handled criminally through restraining orders if it constitutes harassment and stands the legal test. What does a college do - put Student A in dorm 1 and Student B in dorm 10 and monitor their schedules for 1 to 4 years to make sure they don’t sign up for the same class and tell Student A you can eat here or here and study on floor 3 of the library and Student B you can here or here and study only on flour 4 of the library or assume Student B is exhibiting criminal behavior and kick he/she out. Not going to happen.</p>
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