<h1>77parent 57, if you don’t understand acceptable behavior, your sons won’t. I’m not sure of the legalities, they vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction with sexual harassment and rape.</h1>
<p>Therefore, it is best to cover all bases and not offend anyone.</p>
<p>i did not say staring was acceptable… i questioned that is one step away from rape… i assume you are speaking to me…#77 was my post not parent 57’s. I certainly understand acceptable behavior.</p>
<p>Parent1986, your link is totally irrelevant to what we are discussing here. The incident to which you refer has nothing to do with sexual harassment on college campuses.</p>
<p>oh there are two of you -well 57 if you don’t understand the connection, never mind. That is an easy out, you know, to say it has nothing to do with sexual harassment.</p>
<p>Hey, ya think the WSJ author is related to David Berkowitz?</p>
<p>“That is an easy out, you know, to say it has nothing to do with sexual harassment”</p>
<p>sexual harassment on college campuses.</p>
<p>So in HS my son was referred to by several girls as “the eye candy of Western Civilization”. He wasn’t interested in dating these girls so was he sexually harrassed? Of course not! What if it were reversed and it was someones daughter being referred to this way by several boys. All of a sudden does it become sexual harrasment? Of course not. Was he “objectified”? According to some people here, uhmmm yes. Was he embarrassed, flattered? Maybe a little of both, again flip it to a girl. Who here thinks embarrassment or unwanted attention, however benign is actionable? I don’t.</p>
<p>I think this letter to the colleges and the subsequent loss of the legal rights that are afforded to the rest of America is deeply disturbing. I think some people seem to feel that all young men are potential harrassers and rapists. I think it is a disserrvice to both men and woman this characterization of men as predators and woman as victims.</p>
<p>good points acm!!!</p>
<p>parent57, why are your posts personal attacks on me and others? For the record, I don’t believe in the death penalty, so nobody has to fear getting the electric chair from me. Nor do I think that ALL allegations of rape are true. I would never assume one is.</p>
<p>However, I think it’s perfectly rational when a young woman accuses a resident of the same dorm of a sexual offense for the college to react by moving the accused to a different dorm. This is not a “conviction” of anything. It’s just a precaution the college is taking to protect both parties. I think it’s a perfectly rational response by the college. If I were the parent of the young man involved and thought the accusation was wholly false, I’d WANT him to get out of that dorm ASAP.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t understand why anyone thinks the alleged victim of a rape should be cross examined by the alleged rapist personally. NOBODY is saying that she can not be cross examined at all–that’s NOT what the directive says. The suggestion is that the accused rapist should not be able to cross examine the alleged victim PERSONALLY. </p>
<p>Have you ever known anyone who was the victim of a brutal crime? It doesn’t have to be rape. A lot of crime victims have difficulty being in the same courtroom as the perp and quake in fear when they have to identify him in court. That’s especially true when the accused is all dressed up and stone cold sober and looks innocent as a lamb, whereas when he (assume for the moment really) raped her, he was drunk out of his mind or flying high on cocaine. </p>
<p>Remember the Elizabeth Smart case? She’s the young Mormon woman who was forcibly removed from her home by a religious maniac when she was about 14, “married” to him in a ceremony he himself conducted, raped by him a gazillion times, and kept as a prisoner by the rapist and his wife for over a year. </p>
<p>When she testified against him, he was kept in a separate courtroom where he could see her as she testified and hear every word he said. She however COULD NOT SEE HIM. That was an accommodation the Court granted her because she was still absolutely petrified of him. </p>
<p>Lets assume for the moment that SOME accusations of rape are truthful. Jane Doe, 97 pound, 4 feet 10 inch freshman is raped by a 250 pound rapist when she goes to use the restroom during a college frat party and he follows her in and blocks the door. (That’s not far off the allegations made by several different women who attended parties at the same UPenn frat house.) He rapes her and when she tries to scream, he also hurts her in other ways. ASSUME for the moment this REALLY happened. </p>
<p>You really think he absolutely has to have the right to go up and stand within a few feet of her and cross-examine her? And suggest that it was consensual and she wanted the sex? It’s the end of the world if a lawyer or professor or some other advocate asks her the questions instead of him?</p>
<p>parent1986, I believe your post #72
was in reference to something I quoted in post #70,
Geez. Cool it. A guy wrote a stupid thing. We all know it’s stupid. But, I dare say, it’s not rape.</p>
<p>“So in HS my son was referred to by several girls as “the eye candy of Western Civilization”. He wasn’t interested in dating these girls so was he sexually harrassed? Of course not! What if it were reversed and it was someones daughter being referred to this way by several boys. All of a sudden does it become sexual harrasment?” #86</p>
<p>Yes your son was sexually harassed if it was ongoing and if he felt violated. However, depending upon his age, it may be referred to as bullying, if it bothered him.</p>
<p>Same if it was a girl.</p>
<p>The reason I keep quoting is because posters bring up issues that are covered in the DCL- questioning the accuser, due process, timeliness, defense, variation in the level of offenses, etc- and the ^ need to “put some process in place to protect the students as well as themselves.”</p>
<p>P57, you need to take this in context- Title IX reflects anti-discrimination and as one poster or two mentioned, a large part of the DCL is to ensure concern for the accuser, while maintaining rights for the accused. Every time someone brings up the poor guy who simply stares at a girl he likes…and then risks expulsion, it makes sense to refer people to the letter. The letter also allows for variation in responses by the college. I already agreed there can be unjust acusations and that colleges operate under their own guidelines. </p>
<p>Just as we try to warn our daughters of senseless risks, we should warn our sons that their message may be misconstrued and, if repeated over time (or perceived as aggressive, to the point of threatening, creating that "hostile environment,) there could be repercussions.</p>
<p>There’s a measure of hyperbole in some posts. As Jonri pointed out, many “offenses” in college are summarily treated by a committee. No need to accuse her/him of equating cheating with rape.</p>
<p>And, as plenty of folks know, victims often refuse to deal with police. That was the case in the hearings DH participated in.</p>
<p>“Geez. Cool it. A guy wrote a stupid thing. We all know it’s stupid. But, I dare say, it’s not rape.”#89</p>
<p>When does one cross the line from sexual harassment to rape? I believe it is defined legally differently in different jurisdictions, not to mention societies.</p>
<p>But for this example, does staring, giggling, whistling with a group of friends as a single girl walks by constitute sexual harassment? If they do it daily, so that she has to take a different route to class, is it sexual harassment? Do they have to verbalize an intention or desire for it to be harassment?</p>
<p>When does it become rape? What kind of rape? Does age of consent come into consideration? Person (RA) in a position of trust? Alcohol and drug involvement, etc.?</p>
<p>No parent57, he wasn’t harrassed or bullied, but he did learn how to handle being liked without wanting to return the affection. They were all 15 or 16 years old, I only told the story to illustrate a point. I assume we all went through school and the years up to when we married (If we are married), sifting through attention from the opposite sex, not all that attention was reciprocated. I think we need to teach all of our kids how to handle rejection and how to reject. I do think date rape is a problem and I think the police should be involved when somone has been victimized. I do believe some men do not take no for an answer. I also believe (rarely) false accusations are made. Just to clarify.</p>
<p>lol acm… that was parent1986 not me!! too many parent# on here… but i also agree with both of your posts</p>
<p>sorry p56, I knew that, and fixed my typo!</p>
<p>Males do get sexually harassed by females. I would expect it is becoming more frequent. It is humiliating for the male and they virtually never report it.</p>
<p>Those sexually harassed males are not afraid that the women they reject will rape them.</p>
<p>Reality is that there really is a difference, due to physical differences between men and women. </p>
<p>Gay males do share some of the same problems. They can be raped. Yes, straight males can also be raped by other men.</p>
<p>But women raping men? It just doesn’t happen.</p>
<p>And even when men are raped, they don’t have to worry that they might be pregnant.</p>
<p>"Those sexually harassed males are not afraid that the women they reject will rape them.
Reality is that there really is a difference, due to physical differences between men and women.
But women raping men? It just doesn’t happen. "
Bingo! Jonri, you just nailed it…</p>
<p>
Please, let’s be careful with the broad statements.
[Three</a> women rape man for 4 days | New York | Yelp](<a href=“http://www.yelp.com/topic/new-york-three-women-rape-man-for-4-days]Three”>Three women rape man for 4 days | New York - Yelp)</p>
<p>If the attractive female student in the short skirt and tight sweater gets an admiring look from the captain of the football team she would most likely be walking on air for the rest of the day. If she got the same look from the captain of the Physics team I think she would try to ignore it and would be downright despondent if the captain of the football team was also in the lounge and he never looked her way.</p>