Wash U in St. Louis or Berk

Applying to College
21

<p>im just trying to say that u shouldnt just base your judgement on berkeley by its "old" name.... that washu is also a great school and they are both comparable. its like, turning down princeton to go to williams. to some it sounds unbelivable, but if u really consider it, its not that bad. i mean, basically if u went to washu or berkeley, in the end the real success lies in yourself. u'r not gonna be less successful if u went to washu, neither will it guarantee that u will be more successful if u went to berkeley. when u go out into the world after college, both are really good schools that prepare u/teach u what u need.</p>

<p>so, just go visit the schools... if u like berkeley a lot, then wait till spring, if washu doesnt seem too shabby, then go there for fall. people would kill to get off their waitlist. </p>

<p>but its not like life or death for u... its not like... waiting till spring for berk or going to arizona state for fall...</p>

22

<p>xokandykyssesox, STOP belittling public colleges!! WashU is OBVIOUSLY not as prestigous as BERKELEY. look at the peer-accessment scores. UMICHIGAN and BERKELEY beat the CRAP out of WASHINGTON U.</p>

23

<p>I was going to write a long and detailed post, but I ran out of time. Here's the executive summary:</p>

<p>


Reputation

[ul]
[]I had to choose between WashU and UMich. It was a hard decision. I chose WashU.
[]I will try my best to be objective here.
[]The USNews rankings are useless.
[]If you need a measure of overall undergraduate reputation, use the Peer Assessment (PA) rating in USNews. The PA ratings are based on the opinions of thousands of top faculty from every school.
[]UC-Berkeley's PA rating is 4.8, WashU's is 4.1. (These correspond to #6 and #25, respectively, when sorted by PA.)
[]This says nothing about the invididual programs, though.
[]The PA score for Berkeley's ENGINEERING program is 4.7 (#3); WashU's score is 3.4 (#39).
[]To summarize: Berkeley has a better reputation than WashU, especially in engineering. This was the case with UMich for me as well.
[li]What does reputation actually mean to students? Let's say that the benefits of reputation are (supposedly) better professors, better job opportunities, and easier graduate school admission. It isn't clear that you get these benefits, though; read below.[/li][/ul]

``` Academics/Professors ``` [ul] []To compare the actual quality of professors, I used two sources of student opinions: ************'s excellent books, and CampusDirt.com's sketchy but useful multiple choice surveys of students. []Both sources rate Berkeley and WashU's professors almost exactly the same, but gave the edge to WashU for its friendly and approachable profs. []Class sizes will be much bigger at Berkeley. Berkeley's student-faculty ratio is 16:1 and their percentage of classes with 20 or fewer students is 72%. WashU's student-faculty ratio is 7:1 and their percentage of classes with 20 or fewer students is 54%. []To summarize, the professors are about the same but WashU has smaller classes. [/ul]

``` Weather ``` [ul] []Berkeley wins. []If you're coming from the northeast like I am, though, both will be major improvements. [/ul]

``` Housing ``` [ul] []WashU's residential quad (the South 40) is amazing. All freshmen and most sophomores live in that one isolated area connected to campus. Its dorms have outstanding facilities and there are many activities to help you bond with the people in your dorm. There are Residential College Olympics where each dorm (or floor) competes with the others. []************** gives WashU an A for on-campus housing; it gives Berkeley a B. []************* gives WashU a B+ for on-campus food; it gives Berkeley a C. []WashU's rooms are bigger. Neither school is going to win the "dorms are like palaces" prize, but WashU definitely gets the edge here. []WashU gets the edge over Berkeley in this category. [/ul]

``` Size ``` [ul] []WashU has 6,355 undergrads and 4,732 grads. []Berkeley has 22,880 undergrads and 8,803 grads. []Suit yourself. For me, WashU was the absolute perfect size. []Buildings at WashU are closer, but with plenty of open space to lounge on the grass. It's a traditional college campus. [li]Berkeley's facilities are marginally better.[/li][/ul]

``` Geographical Diversity ``` [ul] []WashU is 89% out-of-state.
[]Berkeley is 9% out-of-state. [/ul]

``` Ethnic Diversity ``` [ul] []WashU is 67% white, 10% black, and 13% asian. []Berkeley is 35% white, 3% black, and 48% asian. [/ul]


Other Notes

[ul]
[<em>]The girls are equally ugly at both colleges.
[</em>]Athletics are better at Berkeley.
[li]Both colleges have an incredible number of clubs and activities. You will not be bored at either.[/li][/ul]</p>

<p>As I said before, it's a close call. Personally, I would pick WashU. You can't go wrong with either.</p>

24

<p>USNews takes in other factors. when looking at only academic reputation/power/prestige washu doesnt break the top 20 while berkeley is in the top 10</p>

<p>berkeley definitely has the advantage in prestige. although the top corporations will know washu, not all business will know of it. its just recently gaining a little recognition while berkeley has had years of prestige</p>

25

<p>Obviously Berkeley. All the way.</p>

<p>Top EECS department, top employment prospects, better weather, better name, cheaper, Pac 10 environment, Bay Area>>>>>St. Louis</p>

<p>BTW, if you got Spring admit, it actually seems like an advantage to me to do the Fall extension program. You get the units and adjustment without the grades.</p>

26

<p>


I'm not BELITTLING public universities!

where on this thread have i said berkeley is not good!?</p>

<p>I'm just trying to say, that WASHU is a also a good school and you shouldn't think its lesser than berkeley. I'm not even saying its better, I'm just trying to say that this decision is an equal decision, a win-win situation that should just suit the poster's need... its some other people that are trying to belittle Washu, but its really not THAT bad of a school</p>

27

<p>for engineering, no brainer. Berkeley. Berkeley's engineering department is a top 3 in the world (THES ranked it #1) while WUSTL is no where to be seen (Washington University? Is that in DC?). But do beware, Berkeley's engineering department is loaded with amazingly smart people who are on par with MIT,Stanford,Caltech and Princeton engineers. The classes are no walk-through and u will have to work. But if you do graduate with a decent GPA, your employment opportunities are endless. Berkeley is awesome... while i hear that St. Louis sucks. But if you want to go along with USNEWS rankings... go for it.</p>

28

<p>ummm so hard to pick one, thnx for your comments</p>

29

<p>If you attend the spring semester, do you have to graduate a semester later, like in the fall?</p>

30

<p>irock1ce: hence the name, washington university in saint louis, the location, i would guess logically, is in saint louis.... which is miles from DC... so is the University of Washington in DC?????... um... washington DC is not really located in Washington State</p>

31

<p>WUSTL seems to be better liked by students according to studentsreview.com</p>

32

<p>It seems you're going engineering, so I'd definitely go with Berkeley. A definite plus that doesn't seem to be mentioned here is if you're in state, Berkeley costs about half as much as WUSTL and has more diversity. Granted, WUSTL is a great school and you can't go wrong either way. I'd say it's all about fit in this case. Both schools will have the resources you want/need to do well. If you prefer Berkeley's campus (which I personally think is pretty darn good looking), Norcal(which I love cuz I live here), and a larger and more diverse student body, go to Berkeley. But really, my point is, go wherever you seem to like the 'feel' of more, as both schools will do just fine. Try to not let the whole spring semester thing affect your decision as in the long run it won't matter.</p>

33

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=61119&highlight=ranking%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=61119&highlight=ranking&lt;/a>
This is tricky. Berk has top-5 programs in both EE and CS. WashU's EE and CS are not even in top-20. A huge gap? I don't know. Some people say that's grad ranking. Someone in that field wants to comment?</p>

34

<p>Top grad school programs trickle down to undergrad.</p>

<p>xokandykyssesox....."I'm not BELITTLING public universities!
where on this thread have i said berkeley is not good!?"
------->"*BTW, its berkeley's GRADUATE school that gives it the name. its gradschool is on par with harvard, but its undergrad is only UMich level"</p>

<p>ONLY umich level...yeah umich and berkeley are regular itt techs compared to harvard.</p>

35

<p>xokandykyssesox , u once said "getting into U.Michigan is nothing to be proud of"</p>

36

<p>


</p>

<p>The undergraduate engineering rankings (for colleges that offer doctorate engineering degrees) are probably based on the graduate programs. See the second bolded sentence.</p>

<p>But really, how much should this mean to prospective undergrads? These are rankings by faculty at other colleges who probably have no direct experience with most of the other colleges beyond hearsay. And if they do have direct experience, it's probably with the grad program, not the undergrad.</p>

<p>Furthermore, what is "marginal" or "distinguished" about a particular program? Are they judging the professors on their teaching ability or their research? It is most likely the latter; how many professors have sat in on undergraduate engineering classes at more than a handful of colleges? And if it is the latter, then these rankings are almost entirely useless. Ask any college student and they will tell you that the correlation between a professor's research expertise and teaching expertise is weak at best.</p>

<p>Now please discard your copy of the US News college rankings, visit the colleges in question, sit in on some classes, talk to some current students, read student reviews, pay a quick visit to RateMyProfessors, and make your decision.</p>

37

<p>"getting into U.Michigan is nothing to be proud of" </p>

<p>In terms of how hard it is to get into... its not that difficult. It might be a good school, but you really think they spend that long reviewing your application? I mean, it's GOOD, but its not something to BRAG about. The other poster was bragging about getting into UMich. For instates, this is what I imagine they do:</p>

<p>"SAT past 1300, check"
"GPA past 3.5, check"
"some notible ECs, check"
"one teacher's recommendation that says something nice about the student, check"
"somewhat challenging classes (not 10 teacher's aides), check"
"counsellor's recommendation list says something postiive, check"
okay, this kid is in</p>

<p>maybe if u had a below 1300, they think about it and do a double-over on the rest of the app and ponder.. hmm I wonder if this kid can take it, and then if u pass the second or third checklist inspection, then you're in</p>

<p>personally, i think public schools are sort of big to give you a QUALITY undergrad education. some might prefer it, but if you think about it, the professors dont have nearly as much time with their students compared to, let's say LACs or princeton. u can say the professor is "GOOD"... but what good if they're never there? they'd have a big lecture once a week, and the rest you're left with TAs</p>

38

<p>
[quote]
These are rankings by faculty at other colleges who probably have no direct experience with most of the other colleges beyond hearsay. And if they do have direct experience, it's probably with the grad program, not the undergrad.</p>

<p>Furthermore, what is "marginal" or "distinguished" about a particular program? Are they judging the professors on their teaching ability or their research? It is most likely the latter; how many professors have sat in on undergraduate engineering classes at more than a handful of colleges? And if it is the latter, then these rankings are almost entirely useless. Ask any college student and they will tell you that the correlation between a professor's research expertise and teaching expertise is weak at best.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>sabnetwork,</p>

<p>I think it's a little PC to disregard graduate ranking entirely. I know very little about either EE or CompE. However, my friend was interested in robotics and he went to CMU which is supposed to have one of the top GRADUATE program in robotics. His experience? Awesome. He got involved in tons of projects and he told me CMU's UNDERGRADS were highly regarded in the robotics industry. </p>

<p>The school I went to, Northwestern, has always been ranked in the top 3(according to GRADUATE ranking) in material science and their undergrads are regarded highly in the industry. The professors may be mistaken about other schools' undergrad programs like you said, but the companies that recruit yearly do know better if those undergrads are as competent as advertised.</p>

39

<p>xokandykyssesox , ur attitude is what failed u to get in ur dream ivy leagues</p>

<p>top public schools offer great education. my friend in michigan never had a TA. btw, i dont go to UMAA</p>

<p>dont ever leave ur email address or anything on CC, otherwise the uMAA students would spam you to death</p>

40

<p>I may not going to my "dream" college, but I am completely satisfied with where I'm going next year... </p>

<p>
[quote]
It might be a good school,

[/quote]

[quote]
personally, i think public schools are sort of big to give you a QUALITY undergrad education. some might prefer it,

[/quote]

i think u guys are really biased on how good berkeley is. i didn't say UMich or berkeley was a bad school... using those words specifically 


BAD SCHOOL

... EVER... i was only expressing how i think its big, and umich is ranked by princeton review as one of the schools that have too many TAs teaching high-level courses. some people might like being with a looot of people; then by all means go to a public school. </p>

<p>perhaps your friend was a special case, but i think the general public would agree with me when i say
[quote]
they'd have a big lecture once a week, and the rest you're left with TAs

[/quote]
for a lot of courses at public universities. </p>

<p>i cannot believe how defensive and biased you guys are on berkeley..


</p>

<p>I beg to differ about the "OBVIOUSLY NOT AS PRESTIGOUS AS BERKELEY" statement. i did not say it was BETTER, which some might even argue it is, but it is certainly a school that's totally comparable to berkeley and i'm sure 50% would choose it over berkeley.... its extremely biased to say things like </p>

<p>"WashU is OBVIOUSLY not as prestigous as BERKELEY."</p>

<p>that's like saying "Princeton is OBVOUSLY not as prestigous as Harvard." </p>

<p>maybe you should do a little research on washu before you comment, because i tell you, its not as bad as you would like to think</p>