<p>People, don't kid yourselves about need-blind schools. They "eyeball" applications and figure out the odds that a student is going to need financial aid. They assume that if you are an Urban URM you probably are applying for aid and that if you come from a school in an upscale neighborhood or a fancy prep school that you will be paying most, if not all of the way. A friend of mine who applied to a "need blind" top ranked school last year was deferred from ED and then got a phone call before regular decision time. The admissions rep asked her whether she was applying for financial aid. She told them no. The acceptance arrived one week later!</p>
<p>Sam Lee: Perhaps you haven't caught it but I have a D who is in her third year there. She did not win the scholarhsip. She picked the school and wanted to go because she liked it. D and I have had extensive dealings with the financial aid department. They are extremely helpful and much more accommodating than many others I knw about. As teacher I had a number of students apply from all income levels and they have alomost all been accepted and received good aid packages. I know some need blind places who are a bit more tight with grant monye but very happpy to supply lot's of loans.</p>
<p>Your statement about a few schools giving merit money is false unless you mean that 60% of the top 50 schools (use USNew as an example) is only a few. Merit money is all over the place for top kids along with financial aid.</p>
<p>oldoldad,</p>
<p>
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Perhaps you haven't caught it but I have a D who is in her third year there
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</p>
<p>Bias alert. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
[quote]
D and I have had extensive dealings with the financial aid department. They are extremely helpful and much more accommodating than many others I knw about. As teacher I had a number of students apply from all income levels and they have alomost all been accepted and received good aid packages
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</p>
<p>That doesn't prove anything. It's not like WashU is going to turn down every single poor student. For an outsider, there's no way he/she can tell the difference or they are practicing it (nobody is stupid enough to make it obvious). I am sure WashU is very accomodating *once they are accepted<a href="that's%20on%20their%20website">/i</a> because everything has been calculated (or at least estimated) and they are sure they have enough funds. But if you read their website, it goes on and on about how you shouldn't be discouraged if you are poor, how they have different types of scholarships..blah blah. But one important piece isn't stated: need-blind admission. If their admission is need-blind, why would they leave out such important piece? On the other hand, look at the list again: <a href="http://www.wfu.edu/admissions/finaid/twenty-eight.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.wfu.edu/admissions/finaid/twenty-eight.html</a></p>
<p>I think you should call the WashU admissions or financial aid department, because they have very good reasons for being need-aware.</p>
<p>At a need-blind school, students are accepted regardless of their financial situation. While it may seem like need-aware schools would exclude (or at least limit) the amount of poor students accepted, the opposite is actually true. At need-blind schools, your acceptance is based on your merit as a student. I took a full-IB load my senior year, which was only possible because the school I went to, though public, is in an especially high-income area and thus received and especially high kickback from income taxes. At lower-income schools, where classes like this aren't always offered, and where students don't have the same availability of extra-curricular programs, students are at an obvious disadvantage when being compared to their peers based on academic merit alone. Need-aware schools, unlike their need-blind peers, have a policy that takes into account financial need NOT so that they can exclude lower-income students that they would be responsible for financing, but instead so that they can admit these students by looking at the whole picture: academics and extra-curriculars, as well as financial stability and family situation. WashU doesn't exclude students who can't pay to go here; it admits them and then promises to cover 100% of their need.</p>
<p>After several threads dealing with the anticipation of being admitted and waiting to hear about scholarhsips this thread was started by someone who basically accused WashU of intentionally sending a congratulations postcard to his D along with a scholarship rejection.
As time went on it was a challenging of the scholarship committee decision making process. Next it became a rant and an attack basically stating that someone who get into HYPS surely must be qualified to get a scholarship at lowly Wash U. From there it has gone to accusing the school of marketing, buying students (like all those other schools who give merit I suppose), etc. Now we go to people stating that they are bad unless they go to need blind like some other schools. Well, you know 22000 people applied there this year and the students they admit and who attend are some of the best in the country. Some may complain but they obviously fill a niche that clearly a lot of students think is important. They must be doing something right. Am I biased? Sure my kid has been treated well there. I like their policy even though D did not win a scholarship. I actually am more upset that more schools do not do what they do. Even though S got offered a scholarship he may not attend. He will go where the best fit is for him. I just find it amazing that so many people want to come here and bash this school based on what happended on some scholarships that clearly are heavily sought after. Maybe it is time to go bash some other ones who have rejected some good candidates. I am sure their threads need some excitement.</p>
<p>D applied for 3 of the "named" merit scholarships when she applied to WASHU 2 years ago. Through individually mailed thin envelopes we heard that she didn't received any of these and we were initially surprised, but over the last 2 years we have come to know some of the kids that did win and recognize that D was never really in the running no matter how "special" we thought she was! Not to detract from my D - we love her dearly!- but there are simply students out there that have accomplished amazing things (sometimes under difficult circumstances) beyond what the typical parent of / and high achieving student thinks of. Face it - it's easy to feel a sense of entitlement when you have a student that has received tons of recognition throughout their educational career. When they don't get that recognition at the college level it's natural to feel slighted. Just step back and realize that the scholarship committees look at applicants differently than WE look at our student and work with what is available..if what is available is going to a different school so be it. And on a personal note I don't remember ever feeling hustled or mislead concerning merit scholarships. We knew that competitive meant competitive on a much higher level than she had ever participated and while we felt then that she had a shot we were wrong!
D did receive an engineering merit scholarship for 4 years 'due to the information that she supplied in her other scholarship applications' (which we are grateful for but seems smaller each year because of tuition increases :) ). She is going to leave school with loans to repay and I'm working additional hours at my job whenever possible so while it's not a walk in the park financially speaking. We are a typical middle class family with little access to financial aid. With all that, the experience she is having has been SO worth it. She was, in HS, the smart "kid in the corner", quiet and uninvolved with any of their social/club activities (none of your typical "leadership" items) because "that just isn't me, Mom and it never will be!" (All of her ECs were away from the school ). Now 2 years later she is thriving academically, has had a research opportunity and is VERY involved in campus activities including LEADERSHIP roles! She has never been so confident in trying things outside her comfort zone. I have to believe it is the SUPPORT of fellow students and the faculty at WashU that is helping her become this "new" person! It's hard to believe that a school's students can be so competitive and helpful at the same time but that has been D's experience.
So, once we got over the ego thing of not receiving a "named" merit award, and accepted that it costs A LOT to attend WashU when she could have attended another engineering school with nearly full tuition, it all came down to "fit" and WashU is the perfect fit for her - the old, quiet her, fresh out of HS -and the "new" her - the woman she is becoming. That's a lot to credit a school with, but WashU isn't your typical university. For our money (SO MUCH MONEY!) it has been worth it.</p>
<p>CopterMom: Where have you been? I was wondering if the cavalry was ever going to get here! Take over I have to ge my arms supply replenished. Great story and similar to ours. It has been costly for us too but it has been a great experience.</p>
<p>Yes, Sam Lee, I too am totally biased.<br>
Sam Lee attended WashU briefly YEARS ago and then transferred to Northwestern -(one of my D's top choices too) YEARS ago. I don't know what your experience was at WashU back then, but we are writing about experiences in the PRESENT. It may be time to LET IT GO SAM!!</p>
<p>Sam Lee – I guess that I don’t have a problem with merit scholarships. As you stated - "Middle class" is exactly the group WashU likes targeting because they are the ones that would be faced with the tough decision of choosing HYPS with debt (the poor ones go to HYPS for FREE) vs WashU with merit-based scholarships.</p>
<p>From my experience your statement is partially true. The exception being that I know of quite a few students in the Scholars programs whose families could easily be classified as poor. For the lower middle class and middle class WashU is a blessing. It gives high achieving kids a chance to attend a great school without families going head over heels into debt. I don’t have a problem with kids who have worked hard and achieved success in HS being rewarded. In our case and also with most of the Scholars we have met – there were no prep classes or special counselors or assistance. That may indeed be the case with wealthy families – but it does not seem to be the case with most Scholar program participants. I am all for “social justice”, but not if it means mortgaging my retirement or my kids future with a lifetime of loan payments.</p>
<p>As for schools using merit programs to attract top students – yes that is a fact of life. We turned down merit scholarships at several other top schools (including Duke) for WashU. Did the merit awards make a difference – absolutely. Did WashU get value for money - absolutely – they got a top student – active on campus (organizations & sports – top GPA) – so it seems like a win win situation to me.</p>
<p>I am sure that there will be people who disagree with my take on the situation. That is certainly their right. I believe that WashU is doing the right thing. Both students and their families seem to love the school and consider themselves to be part of a big happy family. If the situation works for you – then go for it. If not then I am sure there are other alternatives that will work as well. It certainly worked for us and I still feel it was the best choice in our case.</p>
<p>melanieeek,</p>
<p>You are idealizing for WashU and I think you are confused. The need-blind schools look at all those things (including socio-economic status) you mentioned; the only difference is ability to pay is not a factor for admission. If "WashU doesn't exclude students who can't pay to go here" like you said, then it's need-blind. </p>
<p>ST2,
I am not against merit based scholarships as long as it not done at the expense of need-blind admission. In fact, I fully support what Duke is doing. I would love to see Northwestern give merit-based ones provided that it stays commited to need-blind admission.</p>
<p>CopterMom,
I am not <em>that</em> old. ;)</p>
<p>Yeah melanieek, Sam Lee points out an important distinction. Need-blind admissions does not mean socioeconomic-status-blind admissions. It just means that a student's inability to pay won't be held against them in any way.</p>
<p>I am utterly amazed at the level of bitterness and feelings of entitlement being shown here. Sam Lee, using Wikipedia as one of your sources of info, kills your credibility. Wash U is an amazing school and attracts an amazingly talented & huge pool of applicants. At this level of school, the applicants are all so impressive that it becomes a very subjective matter of judgement. These schools are looking not just for well rounded students but are trying to put together well rounded classes and it often comes down to not talent or ability but who really wants to be at Wash U and who can contribute the best to what are seen as the needs of that class and the Univ as a whole.<br>
My son is a soph. in Art/Sci - he knew it was the right place for him when he walked onto the campus and continues to love it. He was accepted (off the wait list) and feels fortunate as can be to have this opportunity. There is no need to hurl insults at a fine school; if it's not for your s/d just move on &, I hope, be happy! As for the Admissions staff, we found them to be totally professional, helpful and friendly on top of that. Neither my son nor I ever sent an email that was not answered almost immediately either by our regional representative or by the admissions director, Nanette Tarbouni, herself. This is a group of people with incredible integrity, professionalism and class. Good luck to all of you & please keep your eye on the big picture here. I'm sure it will turn out fine for all your sons & daughters.</p>
<p>galwaymum,</p>
<p>I used not only wikipedia, but also Cornell and Wake Forest sites. I guess the rest of your post wasn't directed to me? If so, please make that clear (at least puts it in another paragraph..lol) as you made it sound like (to those who haven't followed the thread) I was "hurling insults at a fine school" when all I suggested to WashU was to make need-blind admission a higher priority than merit-based scholarships (i.e. take care of the ones that are the most in need first). It's interesting how the ones that support WashU's non-need-blind admission are parents of WashU students. ;)</p>
<p>I very much appreciate oldolddad's and CopterMom's voices of experience. CopterMom--You were absolutely right in post #106. My husband and I have become so accustomed to enjoying the honors and praise heaped on our daughter at the high school level, it was a bit of a rude awakening to see her turned down for the Wash U. scholarship she applied for. ... Your words brought to mind the sad-to-happy tale of my next door neighbor's daughter a number of years back. She was absolutely brilliant, accepted everywhere she applied except for Harvard, which wait-listed her. Wash U. is where she had her heart set on going, but they offered her only a modest science-based scholarship. Other than money issues, it seemed the perfect fit for her, so her middle-class family braced themselves to take a financial beating and sent her off to St. Louis. Within a year, her talents were so obvious, she received significantly more departmental money. By junior year she had a full-ride. She ended up winning a Rhode's Scholarship--one of two winners from Wash U. that year (zero from Harvard). Not having a crystal ball in their admissions office, Wash U. initially missed the spark that made this girl so special, but to their credit they were quick to catch on!</p>
<p>Sorry, Sam, can't help you. Accusing a school of "buying" top students by offering merit scholarships is pure silliness and is, in the tone you've been using, hurling an insult. Of course any school at this level wants to attract top students and Wash U does it very legitimately across the board by offering a mixture of need based and merit based aid. As documented by someone else, you appear to have an axe to grind against Wash U. Let it go.</p>
<p>Congratulations to you and your daughter Hindoo. A job well done.</p>
<p>This is an open forum. If you disagree with something that was written, the forum is simply performing its intended task.</p>
<p>There is nothing in the forum rules that suggests "Positive opinions about schools only." If you want to read only happy things about your school, stick to the university's website. </p>
<p>I have enjoyed reading all of the messages here, including the ones that I didn't agree with. If nothing else, the passion of the responses proves to me that there is little middle ground when it comes to Wash U. </p>
<p>Oh. One last point before, we hope, this thread fades into the back pages. The exact numbers of scholarships that Wash U awards were a relatively recent addition to the school's financial aid web page. I printed out more or less the same pages a while back, and those printouts don't list the numbers.
I'm going to plead "selective blindness" when it comes to my failing to read the updated scholarship list. </p>
<p>Keep up the passion, people, and by all means make sure that you (or your child) brings it with her or him to Wash U.</p>
<p>I hope I don't get blasted here and this in not meant to disparage Wash U but these are our very limited impressions of who receives scholarships to the school. We had two students over the last couple of years apply for the merit scholarships and receive them. Both are minority students, neither were athletes and one had below a 1300 SAT score. The student with the low score received a full ride. It was felt by this student that the hook was being the first in the family to go to college. I don't have a problem with this. The family, despite not having gone to college, lives in an upper middle class neighborhood. So please don't think that you have to be immensely bright to get a scholarship here. Wash U definitely looks at other factors. Scholarship giving will always be a mystery, so why waste time speculating?</p>