Washington & Lee cheating on its application numbers

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington & Lee University
1

<p>Ok, for full disclosure, I am from the DC area and my mom is a college guidance counselor. She helped me with some strategies to gather information on CC a couple of years ago. I was criticized for those as they related to Washington & Lee and the Honor System there. I am at Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>Mom just sent me a link to an article in the Washington Post about W&L inflating its application numbers by including incomplete applications. Here's the link:</p>

<p>Washington</a> and Lee counts incomplete applications, amid debate over college data - The Washington Post</p>

<p>Why would a school with such a strong and old Honor System fake its application numbers?</p>

2

<p>I saw the article as well. It says that they are not cheating on the application numbers. They do, however, count the incomplete applications different than other schools. There could be a few reasons why they do this:</p>

<p>(1) they want to maintain the highest US News ranking they can. I am sure that lots of schools do certain things to maintain US News rankings. I am not condoning the practice per se, but that is just how things are. I think this is the most plausible explanation.</p>

<p>(2) they want to have a consistent methodology from year to year.</p>

<p>(3) W&L attracts a certain type of student. Perhaps after a campus visit they decide not to complete the application. That might have been the case with the kid mentioned in the article. I know him and he definitely would not have fit in at W&L. I doubt he would have been accepted if he had completed the admin process as well, so maybe they do have some good logic in counting the applications the way they do.</p>

3

<p>Xwords you are saying that the school’s misrepresenting itself is ok for USNWR and methodology purposes? What? </p>

<p>The student quoted is a side issue whether he would have fit or could have gotten in. He did not apply but was counted. That is a kind of fraud on the part of the school.</p>

<p>I can tell you one thing as a former parent there. If a student at W&L did something like this on a paper or exam they would be brought up on honor charges. Since the evidence is clear they would be kicked out.</p>

4

<p>This is what Claremont McKenna, which is a higher ranked school than Washington and Lee University, was doing. The Dean of Admissions was fired because of it. They only count and report real applications and SAT’s now. Emory and Bucknell had been doing the same thing and have corrected. The real issue is that schools are playing a game to look better in USNWR.</p>

5

<p>If you read my post I said that I do not condone what they do. I also said that I think the school is focused on maintaining its USN ranking. From what I infer from the article, there is some latitude on how a school reports its numbers. My guess is that W&L has carefully looked at this and is being aggressive in its interpretations. Of course, I cannot know this for sure. I also would imagine that the Dean of Admissions will be discussing the matter with the University President this week.</p>

6

<p>Of course they use this kind of deception to look better. Explaining the reason makes it look almost permissible though. It isn’t. There are guidelines in the industry on what is allowed. They chose their own method of counting.</p>

<p>They can have consistent methodology from year to year without faking numbers. </p>

<p>As said below the students there can get kicked out for much smaller infractions than this.</p>

7

<p>Personally, I agree with you - incomplete applications should not be factored into the admission statistics; it just makes common sense. My only point is that the article states that what W&L does “does not appear to break the rules for reporting data to the federal government or market analysts such as U.S. News & World Report”. Several other schools mentioned (Carleton, Georgetown, the Naval Academy) also seem to report incomplete applications. When looking at different schools, you want to be able to compare “apples-to- apples”, which you clearly cannot do right now. The government should tighten up the definition of these numbers, and then there would be no more controversy.</p>

8

<p>The Naval Academy has a unique application process which counts unrealistic applications. They have reduced the numbers in the past couple of years.</p>

<p>The other schools you mention improve their application numbers by 3% or 4% by including incomplete applications. While thy should not count that way, it’s practically a rounding error. </p>

<p>W&L has been improving their numbers by 20% by adding incompletes. That is blatant fabrication. They are flaunting rules from both the government and data collection agreement, the CDS U.S. News & World Report uses.</p>

9

<p>[Statement</a> on Ad Hoc Group on Reporting of Applications :: Washington and Lee University](<a href=“http://www.wlu.edu/presidents-office/messages-to-the-community/statement-on-ad-hoc-group-on-reporting-of-applications]Statement”>http://www.wlu.edu/presidents-office/messages-to-the-community/statement-on-ad-hoc-group-on-reporting-of-applications)</p>

10

<p>Here is a lift from the Washington Post with a couple of additions in parentheses. </p>

<p>"Let’s understand this. </p>

<p>On its Admissions website the school’s description of an application is the following : </p>

<p>[First-Year</a> Applicants :: Washington and Lee University](<a href=“Washington and Lee”>Washington and Lee)</p>

<p>Requirements (for a complete application) are clear. There is no mention of incomplete applications being considered.</p>

<p>(The Common Data Set says: Applicants (reported) should include only those students who fulfilled the requirements for consideration for admission (i.e., who completed actionable applications) and who have been notified of one of the following actions: admission, nonadmission, placement on waiting list, or application withdrawn (by applicant or institution).)</p>

<p>Questions were raised in the Post about the accuracy or ethics of including unfinished applications. It looked at the practice beyond Washington and Lee and found that some schools inflate numbers and some don’t. Among top rank schools Washington and Lee is at the high % end of including incomplete applications in its reported totals.</p>

<p>The president of the school asked three of his employees to investigate.</p>

<p>Employees who want to keep their jobs usually do nothing when they know what their boss thinks. He made that clear in a statement shortly after the original article. No one should be surprised that in their Report they found nothing wrong and endorsed the practice.</p>

<p>Higher education is an important industry that has a focus on the truth – Harvard motto – as part of its work. Many of those who manage the industry play games with that truth. Admissions is the industry’s black hole for less than straightforward behavior. </p>

<p>College Accrediting Agencies and Bond Rating Agencies BOTH should force colleges to come clean with their data. Till then students and their parents should look at it with some skepticism and do their own research.</p>

<p>Washington and Lee should be embarrassed but is not. With its Honor System it should set a standard not slouch towards Gomorrah. In the larger world this is a small issue but is emblematic of 21st century America and the decline of social conventions like shame and honorable conduct. Washington D.C. is symbolic of dysfunction at present, but problems with the social fabric in the country exist in all corners of the larger community. This is a small example but is reflective of much more."</p>

11

<p>I would suggest that you read both the Washington Post article and the Washington and Lee response rather then the analysis of Puzzle78. The level of hyperbole including terms like “slouch towards Gomorrah” is a bit over the top and suggests a personal bias. </p>

<p>The post says that W&L followed the rules but in the way most favorable to them. But again I suggest you read it for yourselves if your interested.</p>

12

<p>I started this thread after my guidance counselor mom sent me the original article. She also sent me the most recent article which said that the school found nothing wrong with what it had been doing. I asked her about Dadofdaughter’s comments. This is what she said. “Puzzle78 cut and pasted a comment with a little hyperbole and lots of facts. The report that found nothing wrong with how Washington and Lee counted was written by three employees of the school president, after the school president said he saw nothing wrong with what Admissions had been doing. The links on W&L’s requirements for a complete application are correct and so is the quoted requirement by the Common Data Set. There is no mention of incomplete applications being considered for admission by Washington and Lee.” </p>

<p>What bothers people is that higher education is supposed to operate on a higher plane. It seems that Admissions offices do not. It makes me wonder what admissions numbers my school, Vanderbilt, is increasing for its benefit? I guess they are inflating some especially since its applications have risen so fast over the last decade. When a school with an Honor System like Washington and Lee plays games it makes you question the higher plane which higher education likes to project.</p>

<p>I agree with Puzzle78 that organizations which oversee colleges should put pressure on them to report honestly. That is only fair and honest. Until that happens students and their parents need to do lots of research to get the real story.</p>

13

<p>I have a friend with a son there who said that the school conducted its own investigation, found not much wrong, and asked for added clarity on a few things. Justification?</p>

<p>I guess the investigators did not read any of the report by O’Melveny and Myers on what happened at Claremont McKenna. There they inflated applications in the same manner as W&L, though not by nearly as much (and did the same to SAT’s and class rank). O & M investigated and it found that all CMC admissions inflation practices were counter to industry guidelines. They now report only real and complete applications. W&L is going to continue to inflate by about 10%. According to my friend, W&L’s investigative committee simply provided cover for senior administrators who knew about this practice. It’s unfortunate that a place like W&L can’t simply report real numbers.</p>

14

<p>Claremont McKenna reported accepted students’ SAT scores (and maybe class rank? not sure about that one) instead of matriculating students’ scores. The accepted students’ scores are higher than the matriculating ones. That is something that is specifically not permitted and that was intentionally reported incorrectly by an Admissions Office officer for several years. The W&L “transgression” was not intentionally in violation of the rules. If you pay an application fee or supply an app fee waiver and start the application, you are considered an applicant even if you haven’t finished the application. That larger denominator of applicants made W&L’s acceptance rate 19% last year. Without the extra app-fee-paying but not completing the app people included, the rate would have been 24%.<br>
W&L’s actions are not in violation of the reporting rules. They are in a gray area, and as the parent of a W&L student, I’m not crazy about it. But it is simply not in the same class of offense as what CMC pulled. Best proof for that is that W&L will continue their practice with the full knowledge of the ranking organizations, whereas CMC was punished for their actions and have been forced to change to the correct way of reporting.</p>

15

<p>Bellybones, I started this thread. My mom is an admissions advisor and guidance counselor in the Baltimore/Washington area at a private school. She has seen the games colleges play affect her students for a long time, and considers what Washington and Lee has been doing and its recent report to be more gaming. She and others have been working for transparency at NACAC and are making some progress with new rules they have adopted. </p>

<p>At her school they had been counting applications like Washington and Lee until a few years ago when they had an enrollment problem. Overseers asked why they were having trouble filling spots when they had so many applications. The head of admissions had to tell them the truth and they were asked to report only complete application numbers from then on. She objected to the practice before but the person running admissions overruled her. That admissions person is not at the school any longer.</p>

<p>Mom sent me what follows this morning and asked me to post (CAPITALS for emphasis).</p>

<p>The Washington and Lee admissions website says the following:</p>

<p>Students who are currently seniors in high school or who have never taken college classes after graduating from high school should apply as first-year students.</p>

<p>A COMPLETE application includes:</p>

<p>The Common Application with the W&L Supplement</p>

<p>Secondary School Report Form </p>

<p>Counselor Recommendation </p>

<p>Official Transcript</p>

<p>Official score reports from the SAT I (W&L’s code is: 5887) or ACT with its writing section (4430) </p>

<p>We recommend, though do not require, Two SAT Subject Tests - (In unrelated areas) </p>

<p>Two Teacher recommendations </p>

<p>Optional Johnson Scholarship Application (this is found on the W&L Writing Supplement to the Common Application)</p>

<p>Mid-Year Grades (when they become available)</p>

<p>Final Grades (when they become available)</p>

<p>The Common Data Set prerequisite (directly from the Common Data Set form) for counting applications is:</p>

<p>Applicants (reported) should include only those students who fulfilled the requirements for consideration for admission (i.e., who COMPLETED actionable applications) and who have been notified of one of the following actions: admission, nonadmission, placement on waiting list, or application withdrawn (by applicant or institution).</p>

<p>The report from the outside law firm on Claremont McKenna is here. </p>

<p>[CMC</a> Releases Report on SAT Scandal | Claremont Port Side](<a href=“http://www.claremontportside.com/cmc-releases-report-on-sat-scandal/]CMC”>Bringing a Positive Change to Your Community)</p>

<p>What Claremont McKenna was doing was outside the rules. Washington and Lee is interpreting rules its way not following them. The difference between Claremont McKenna and Washington and Lee is that CMC did not know what was being done and Washington and Lee did.</p>

<p>Sensible111 again. I think all of the above is clear. Washington and Lee is gaming the system for its benefit. From the beginning of this thread I thought that a college with an Honor System should be truthful in all areas not just some.</p>

<p>All colleges need to start being honest, including mine which I am sure is inflating its numbers.</p>

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<p>BTW I know that some of what my mother asked me to post was included in some earlier posts by other people but she thought it would be better if the application guidelines were posted in full for clearness.</p>

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<p>It seems odd that “your Mother” would be sending information to her college student son to post in a forum for a school that turned him down for a johnson scholarship.</p>

<p>She must be reading this, why not post herself?</p>

18

<p>She used to post on a number of forums, but because of her knowledge of the admissions game and her transparency she was “outed” so she quit rather than use another I.D. She still reads forums on LAC’s and the top universities. She found the application inflation article and asked me to start a thread. Johnson or not, I found the inflation counter to what W&L says it’s about so I agreed to start the thread.</p>

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<p>I think its a bit ridiculous for you to be so adamantly against the school.
[Early</a> Action Acceptance Rate Increases to 21 Percent for the Class of 2018 | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/13/early-admissions-rate-rises/]Early”>Early Action Acceptance Rate Increases to 21 Percent for the Class of 2018 | News | The Harvard Crimson)</p>

<p>They included incomplete and withdrawn applications in the tally, why shouldn’t W&L?</p>

20

<p>What ever happened to the concept of conservatism in accounting?</p>

<p>Obviously, you don’t count incomplete applications or withdrawn applications.</p>

<p>Federal standards? I don’t think so. West Point and Annapolis count people who complete the initial stage of the application but can’t get nominated to apply.</p>