Washington Post: Colleges Go Online to Calm the Admissions Jitters

Parents Forum
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<p>Chris, I was struck by the aptness of your comment re:CC
[quote]
I ... was stunned by the questions being asked here -- ones that should have been asked directly to our office. If students and parents are here, why shouldn't we be? College admissions shouldn't be some great mystery. It won't ever be completely transparent -- and that's probably a good thing -- but it's important that we break down the wall and open up dialogue.

[/quote]
and think it is worth repeating. You are making important chinks in that wall and hopefully, as more people know that adcoms like you are willing and waiting to field all those questions they will call - as well as continue to post on forums such on this one.</p>

<p>BTW, love your blog - of course, as a die-hard New Yorker I am not at all biased when it comes to New York or SUNY... :)</p>

22

<p>I'm wondering how many college admission officers have children of their own of college-applying age. I get the impression that Marilee Jones, of MIT, learned a lot about the application process when her daughter went through it last year.</p>

23

<p>As a parent going through all of this for the first time with my oldest son, I must say, it's been a bit daunting!</p>

<p>His primary strategy has been to follow the usual recommendations for applying to reach, match and safety schools. Given that he is also in the running for merit scholarships, everything has become more intense!</p>

<p>One of the schools he has been accepted to with a generous merit scholarship has been Tulane. They have an excellent message board, and the Admissions reps respond very quickly to emails. One of the admissions reps also created a Facebook page for applicants to post questions on. I think it's helpful to get information that helps improve a student's chances. I agree, however, that some of the responses to questions on this site about "chance me" are a little crazy. I think that when a student has very high test scores, a great GPA and ECs, they are competing with intangibles against equally qualified students for a limited number of spots.</p>

<p>One more month of all this craziness anyway. I do feel much more informed about what my daughter (who is entering HS this fall) will need to do when her time comes. I think it will be a tad less stressful - at least I hope!</p>

24

<p>We</a> made it to The Chronicle!</p>

25

<p>intresting article never though of it before. Mr. Dan from the hopkins thread does really humanize the application process.</p>

26

<p>Maybe it's just me, but I think a number of schools are hurting themselves on the web as much as they are helping. Students and parents are browsing the web looking for reasons as to why they should consider a school, and it is easy to turn them away right off the bat.</p>

<p>As an example, (sorry, Dean J) my S went to the web to learn about the University of Virginia. Let's see: <a href="http://www.uva.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.uva.edu&lt;/a>, right? Guess what comes up? (Try it!)</p>

<pre><code> (Nasty-gram; redirection to www.virginia.edu Pause... Pause....)
</code></pre>

<p>That was the end of his interest: his reaction was "Why bother?" (Contrast that with <a href="http://www.umd.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.umd.edu&lt;/a> which works as well as <a href="http://www.maryland.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.maryland.edu&lt;/a> without the delay and without implying that the user really should know better than to use an abbreviation for such a fine institution....)</p>

<p>At most college web sites, it is painfully difficult to pull out any real information. Want to know what AP credit you can count on? It's probably there somewhere, but it can be devilishly tough to find. Want to know when you can expect an admissions decision? Good luck. </p>

<p>At most schools, there is not much real information about any particular academic program, and what little is there is often out-of-date and not presented well. (Sorry, AdmissionsDaniel, but Hopkins is not one of the better sites on the web when it comes to providing useful information.)</p>

<p>When you think about the money that schools pour into their glossy view-books, you would think that they would put a little more effort into their web presence!</p>

27

<p>Wow...a student lost interest in UVa because the website wasn't where he thought it would be and because our redirect wasn't fast enough when he went to the site that we bought because we anticipated the mistake? I don't know what to say.</p>

<p>Just as view books are published with the help of design houses, websites are developed with the help of consultants. Every school scours the sites of other institutions and polls students to come up with ideas for layout and features. </p>

<p>Regarding finding information, many college websites have a Google box (you can also do a simple Google search and limit it to a specific website).</p>

<p>I guess this goes to show that what is intuitive for one may not be intuitive for others. We've had good feedback since our last redesign. It seems to be working for people.</p>

28

<p>
[quote]
As an example, (sorry, Dean J) my S went to the web to learn about the University of Virginia. Let's see: <a href="http://www.uva.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.uva.edu&lt;/a>, right? Guess what comes up? (Try it!)</p>

<p>(Nasty-gram; redirection to <a href="http://www.virginia.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.virginia.edu&lt;/a> Pause... Pause....)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm with Dean J on this. You call that a "nasty gram"? :confused: A simple redirect, with a thank you? I'm astounded that a redirect would make an iota of difference to anyone. Tough crowd! :rolleyes:</p>

29

<ol>
<li><p>Anyone who can't defer gratification long enough to wait for a web redirect on something as important as his college search may not be a great candidate for Virginia under any circumstances.</p></li>
<li><p>I have to disagree with DadO2 on the Hopkins site. My son (and his parents) found it very valuable and very attractive. It put the school on his list.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Talk of impatience! I was redirected within seconds, about the time it took to read part of the message.</p>

31

<p>My apologies to everyone. I jumped to a bad conclusion based on some personal prejudices, and I was wrong to do so. Let me offer an little bit of background so that you can consider me a jerk based on my prejudices rather than my impatience!</p>

<p>The reaction to what I considered to be a "nasty-gram" was really mine as I sat with my S at the computer, and I can see now that it was based on a visit I made to Charlottesville many years ago. At the time, I found the attitude there somewhat elitist (I'm sure that's not the case) and felt that I was constantly being put down. I was corrected that it was not "the campus" it was "The Grounds." I was corrected that it was not "Thomas Jefferson" it was "Mr. Jefferson." Somehow it didn't occur to me that the redirection was anything other than another snobbish put-down informing me that it is not "uva.edu" it is "virginia.edu". I doubt that anyone else in the world would have drawn that conclusion. Again, my apologies, both for that misunderstanding as well as my outdated biases. The virginia.edu web site is gorgeous.</p>

<p>Now I will apologize for my comment on the JHU website. I can see that it been dramatically improved over the past year. Glad to see the improvements. Back a year or two when I started looking, the link to the ECE department was broken, and when I found my way in through the back door I encountered not much more than some very dry mission statements, a list of graduate seminars, and an out-of-date advising manual. I'm sure that if I were to be psychoanalyzed I would learn that my frustration with the Hopkins web site results from a bad experience with the woman behind the counter in the freshman cafeteria.</p>

<p>I'm an information junkie, and love the internet, but I have been pretty frustrated finding information beyond fluff on many school websites. I have better luck entering "Johns Hopkins advanced placement credit" in the search box at google.com than trying to find it on the web site. I have a number of other examples of my frustration with the college on-line interface, but I'll hold my tongue lest I stick my foot in my mouth again.</p>

<p>Finally, I suspect that JHS is correct when he hypothesizes that my S "may not be a great candidate for Virginia under any circumstances" but the mismatch may not for the reasons he thinks. Oops, there is that suppressed hostility resulting from my toilet training, no doubt.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTe]
I have better luck entering "Johns Hopkins advanced placement credit" in the search box at google.com than trying to find it on the web site.

[/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity, I checked. "AP/IB Information" is the last menu item on the "Apply" page. You’ll find that searching “AP credit” instead of “advanced placement” is more successful. </p>

<p>As for the lingo, I admit that it's a little odd. I find it funny and interesting. The first time I heard someone say "academical" (a real word at UVa), I laughed. </p>

<p>In general, I don't think the intent with lingo is to make outsiders feel alienated, but to make insiders feel included. I once worked at a school where students were obsessed with acronyms. It was cute, but absurd at times because everything had to have an acronym.</p>

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<p>When I first saw postings by Ad..daniels and other admissions officers, I was concerned the postings would be inappropriate. I expected some recruiting efforts and biases. Instead, I have seen very good advice about the college selection and admissions process. I have seen very good advice about keeping options open and not becoming fixated on a single school. Let's hope that as other admissions officers join this forum, they also take the high road and help to provide information, links and clear up incorrect information, rather than using the forum for recruitment.</p>

34

<p>
[quote]
As an example, (sorry, Dean J) my S went to the web to learn about the University of Virginia. Let's see: <a href="http://www.uva.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.uva.edu&lt;/a>, right? Guess what comes up?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yep. The redirect message should at least thank the reader for his or her interest in the University of Virginia. This is such a basic blunder of copywriting that it ought to be fixed TODAY. I'll check tomorrow. </p>

<p>The contrasting example of Maryland is instructive. I have read that Maryland has a good program in Web site usability. I can believe that after seeing this specific example.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, I am one of those obsessive type students (the one who's keeping your helplines busy about small insignificant details). I can't put in words how much better I feel when I hear information about the admissions process. I hope this humanizing of the college process continues - it's the easiest and fastest way to make a whole bunch of students applying feel better day in and day out!</p>

36

<p>Walnut -- and anyone else... don't be afraid to call us or e-mail us or whatever. Really, that's what we're here for!</p>

<p>Chris D'Orso
Stony Brook University</p>

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<p><a href="http://apply.jhu.edu/apply/apib.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apply.jhu.edu/apply/apib.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I figured I would post for your reference. </p>

<p>Biology 4 or 5 8
Calculus AB 4 or 5 4
Calculus BC 3 4
Calculus BC 4 or 5 8
Chemistry 4 or 5 6
Computer Science AB 4 or 5 3
Environmental Science 4 or 5 3
French Language 4 or 5 6
German Language 4 or 5 6
Macroeconomics* 4 or 5 3
Microeconomics* 4 or 5 3
Physics C (first part) 4 or 5 4
Physics C (second part) 4 or 5 4
Spanish Language 4 or 5 6
Statistics 4 or 5 4</p>

38

<p>Maybe it is just me but didn't this article kind of give sites like CC a bad name? It made me feel like I was over-obessed with admissions and deranged about test scores to the point of insanity... sigh...</p>

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<p>Most people on here ARE obsessed with this site AND with the process in general...</p>

40

<p>Wow, what a great discussion going on here. I am glad that the Washington Post story has been read by so many. Sorry for not contributing sooner, but I have been absent from College Confidential focusing on reading applications - yes I do have another part of my job which did not allow me to bask in my 15 minutes of fame too much last week.</p>

<p>So just some thoughts to add to this discussion:</p>

<p>Dean J: I completely agree with you that us admission bloggers are an informal team. Though I have never officially met you, I do think we "know" each other from reading other various blog entries and for pushing for a better understanding behind this "admissions craze." I think what you are doing for UVA is wonderful - both of your blogs - and I am a huge fan — just not of your Lacrosse team.</p>

<p>sbuadmissions: Chris, welcome to the team. I took a look at your blog and it is great. Having grown up 5 minutes from the Stony Brook campus, I have to say it is great to read your entries and feel connected to the University that first represented college for me. Love the picture of Jose Reyes — huge Mets fan that I am.</p>

<p>jmmom: I give you credit too. DeanJ, Ben Jones, and others are doing a great job I agree — but you have also been a great voice of clarity and information on College Confidential. Whenever I am praising this site (which I do praise though the Washington Post article makes it seem that I don't), I refer to posts that you have made. Keep up the great work.</p>

<p>To everyone else: thanks so much for the positive feedback and for reading our blogs. It is always great to know there exists an audience for my ramblings. </p>

<p>I'll end with this. Yes the article painted the College Confidential community in a bit of a negative light. I won't speak with the other Admissions counselors in this community, but my own personal opinion is that there are some real strengths of this site and I have recommended that prospective students take a look. My concerns though fall into these categories:</p>

<p>(1) Chances threads. I could go on for hours, but unless you are a seasoned admission professional or guidance counselor it is very difficult to predict the outcome of an admissions season - and even we get it wrong. It concerns me when "confidential posters" are post on chances threads as credible sources. It provides a false hope at times, and can be very, very misleading.</p>

<p>(2) Incorrect information. There are members of this community who are posting as "credible sources" and providing completely inaccurate information. This is why I began posting on these boards because I was shocked by the misinformation. Just as Chris said, I was shocked that students were coming to these boards to ask questions which they could have received directly from the source by going to our web site or calling our office.</p>

<p>(3) Fostering myths. I feel that sites like this and "insider's guides" continue to foster myths about schools that are just not correct. This concerns me because some students come to CC, hear one thing about a school and then cross it off their list. This is lazy research. Students may be crossing off schools that may be perfect matches because they hear one thing that may be a myth and just assume it is fact. I feel that my role on CC has become two-fold — correcting misinformation and dispelling myths.</p>

<p>(4) Enhancing the ills that face college admissions. Sites like CC seem to just intensify the craze surrounding admissions these days. The focus placed on rankings, the negative stereotypes of the admission process portrayed in most media outlets, etc... At times it seems to all just be spinning out of control, and CC threads definitely can pour fuel on the fire. Thankfully, there are those who are also using this site to promote the positive side of the realm of college admissions and making the process more transparent. </p>

<p>Sorry for the long post, just needed a break from Admissions committee deliberations.</p>