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When my daughter spent time living abroad, one thing she came back with was the realization that there really did exist a distinct American culture -- a set of values and expectations that those who are raised in the US tend to take for granted -- which is in fact so ingrained that she failed to recognize it until she was living in a different culture.
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<p>It's insights like this that make me such a big fan of living abroad. The time I spent in Germany made me really understand the good and bad things about both my own culture and German culture in a way you just can't from reading a textbook.</p>
<p>Hahahaha. What was I thinking? I've become such a mindless college drone that "Washington" + publication = obscure college rankings, rather than one of the biggest newspapers in the country.</p>
<p>As a parent, I can attest to the fact that one cannot push an EC on a child who does not like the activity. I tried pushing violin lessons on my son, had to give up after two years, he just hated it. I tried pushing soccer too, after 5 years, gave that up too. However, baseball was a success. He loved it...no, he was passionate about it......played on teams since five years old until he graduated from high school. He's 24 now, still grabs his bat and swings whenever he is home (yes, we have a bat still) and does the same in his apt.</p>
<p>This singular passion has served him well. His HS varsity team won a Central Coast Championship (those in the Bay Area know this league) and his team was ranked in USA Today's HS top 10 baseball team in America for 6 weeks. His sole EC in HS was baseball; summer league, fall league, winter ball and of course spring varsity team. His college application statement was about baseball. Well, he got in his first choice Ivy college ED. FWIW, he didn't play baseball in college, he knew he wasn't good enough to make a living at it.</p>
<p>To be fair to him, he did have straight A's and was 90th percentile in SAT I and II.</p>
<p>" I think most kids are started in an activity because the parents think the child will enjoy it or seen to have an aptitude for it. The child continues with the activity because they enjoy doing it."</p>
<p>Believe it or not, there are some parents who have started their kid on an obscure instrument like the oboe because the parents hope that years later, playing that instrument will get their kid into Harvard.</p>
<p>These are the same kind of parents who may register their kids for some select preschool even before their kids are conceived.</p>
<p>Many children and teens do ECs through h.s. because their parents make them. In some cultures, boys are pushed into baseball, football or basketball to fulfill their dad's dreams and their cultures' expectations. Even if the boys don't like the sport, they may end up continuing with it so as not to let their parents down.</p>
<p>In some cultures, kids are pushed into classical music lessons whether or not they have much aptitude or love for the instrument. Heck, I ended up taking piano for 12 long years. I was sick of it after about the first four, but my mom insisted that I continue. I stopped playing when I went to college, and didn't play again for more than 20 years.</p>
<p>Where I live, Mu Alpha Theta is very popular particularly among the many teens whose parents immigrated from Africa, Eastern Europe or Asia. Some of the students in the clubs have told me that they aren't particularly interested in it, but their parents made them do that EC, feeling it would strengthen their math skills and help them do well as premed majors in college. Those students tended to enjoy the social aspects of the club such as taking trips, but if they had been able to pick ECs of their choice, it would have been something very different like theater or art.</p>
<p>Sometimes it's the kids who force themselves to continue an activity that has lost its appeal.</p>
<p>Have you ever known a young person who really excelled in an activity in high school but did not pursue it in college? I suspect, from what I hear from my kids and their friends, that in many instances these kids stayed in the activity until the end of high school solely because it made them look good on paper. If they had truly felt free to follow their interests, they would have dropped out of swimming or orchestra or whatever it was during high school and devoted the freed-up time to trying something else. But how would that look?</p>
<p>"Sometimes it's the kids who force themselves to continue an activity that has lost its appeal."</p>
<p>Yes, and sadly for the kids who do things like that, the colleges that they're shooting for -- the HPY type places -- would prefer to have students who have the independence and creativity to follow their own blisses.</p>
<p>There's no way that someone who is forcing themselves to do something to look good will be as involved and have the kind of impact in an activity as they would if they were following something that they cared about for internal reasons, not to please other people.</p>
<p>My son's whole life revolved around soccer for many years, and he decided to give it up after 10th grade and do cross-country instead. He actually wrote his personal essay for his college application on this decision, and he was admitted to several of the HYPMS group.</p>
<p>From all the admissions talks we've attended, the impression I get from the top schools is that they are interested in building a well-rounded class. They look at the academic numbers to ensure that the students will be able to succeed in their classes. But beyond that, it very much depends what the applicant pool is like. They want some leaders, some students out to change the world for the better, some athletes, some geniuses who may never leave their room, some musicians and arts and drama, etc. The emphasis on the different areas may differ from school to school.</p>
<p>I also got the impression that some schools like students who have reached beyond the opportunities in the school system to support their individual passions and interests. They may be more interested in students whose strengths are not necessarily the ones for which the school is known since this will enable the school to further diversify their student body.</p>
<p>So both well-rounded and well-lopsided students will be attractive applicants. If a school really wants an oboe player, but there are 10 great oboe players applying, then they will look at other aspects of the application. Obviously you can't predict 5 or 15 years ahead what a particular college will need to complete their class. So the idea is for the student to pursue their own interests for the joy of it. If they don't have a specific passion, they might enjoy leadership or charitable activities and that is what they can bring to a freshman class. </p>
<p>Of course, some schools do look for specific passions and interests. When we toured CalTech, the guide said that the students there have never known anyone like themselves til they got to campus. This does not sound like well-rounded students to me! My son's at CMU now and nearly all of his extracurricular and summer activities supported his interest in computer science and math, plus his academic and test numbers supported that too. He had virtually no leadership or volunteer activities. But he didn't get into MIT, probably because they have so many applicants with the same interests and test scores but also research, international competitions, etc. Yet MIT probably accepted students with lower numbers who had interests outside of math/science/technology so they could build that aspect of their class. And my S was accepted to WUSTL and Penn engineering, probably because they don't get a lot of strong engineering applicants compared to the other schools within those colleges.</p>
<p>So the idea in the Washington Post is not that the schools don't want well-rounded students per se, just that they want to build a complete class that will enhance their college overall.</p>
<p>Fascinating thread. My d is the bright, intellectually curious, well-rounded type....loves science, art, and is a highly compassionate human being, who puts her compassion into action. There really is no way I could change that (nor would I try) to mold her for college acceptance.
Some colleges appreciate that more than others. The head of admissions at Scripps College told her "it's not a curse"...when we were discussing this sometimes frustrating aspect of d's personality. There are some excellent colleges such as Scripps that welcome this type of student. Thank goodness there's still some room to explore at this age, as some on this thread have pointed out. Many interdisciplinary majors that would appeal aren't even on the radar screen in high school.
Does anyone know of other colleges besides Scripps that welcome this type of student?</p>
<p>What we finally figured out, sort of, is that this is like finding a spouse. The most impt thing is to be yourself and pursue your own interests or lack thereof, and then present that package in its most attractive form and see whose interested (out of a group that you are interested in). What you wind up with is a place that is happy with you and that you are happy with. If you try to be something you're not, as with people, you'll just wind up miserable and getting divorced.</p>
<p>If a school picks you based on an activity package or level of activity, whatever, if that is the kind of person they genuinely want, then once you arrive you will be, whether overtly or not, expected to continue in the same vein. If you were never really comfortable with that life, how long do you think you can keep it up w/o trouble of one sort or another? If you fall for someone it's because of the package you see; don't you expect that person to remain the same after you're living with them? Conversely, if you've twisted yourself into a pretzle to get someone, how long can you keep it up once you "get" them?</p>
<p>Just be yourself, pursue your dreams and interests to the best of your talent and desire, and you'll wind up in the right place - even if it's not on somebody's top ten list.</p>
<p>Just be yourself, pursue your dreams and interests to the best of your talent and desire, and you'll wind up in the right place - even if it's not on somebody's top ten list.>></p>
<p>Excellent advice. Unfortunately, while many kids instinctually know this, their parents have other plans. :)</p>
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Have you ever known a young person who really excelled in an activity in high school but did not pursue it in college?
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It depends on the activity itself and how time consuming the activity is. For my S, he decided not to pursue baseball in college because at Penn where it is Div 1A, it is a 5 hour commitment daily for at least 6 months.......more on game days, and there were at least 2 games per week, not counting traveling time for away games. He realized that he would not be able to handle baseball and academics (he was at the Wharton school)together. However, he did miss the camaraderie of team sports and the need for exercise, so he joined sprint football( football for 170 lbs and under) a sports that we steered him away from because of fear of injuries. The season for sprint football was short (finished by Thanksgiving) and he enjoyed it immensely.</p>
<p>My husband was in varsity track at his college for 4 years because practice time was short and competitions were held only on Saturdays.</p>
<p>College offers students opportunities to try new things so it comes as no surprise to me many take advantage of new activities that their high school may not offer.</p>
<p>What do you guys mean by showing passion? What type of activities do you talk about and to what degree of success or "impact" do you mean? Is having a leadership position in a club enough to show that you made an "impact" or that you have passion? </p>
<p>It seems its much more varied depending on what is your interests and your school. For example, I'm interested in Politics and History, but there is virtually no clubs or activities that are even remotely related to either in my school. Yet, how can I express my interest in the area? And for top colleges, it seems that expressing your interest is not enough. Simply saying that you are researching a certain topic is not enough unless you won awards for it, or got it published on some major publications, am I correct?</p>
<p>Here's what my son had as background in his passion: 4 years math team (no leadership positions existed), one year JETS team (science/match competition), 4 years computer club (no leadership positions existed), two summers 2 weeks each Camp CAEN in Ann Arbor, third summer 10 day Leadership Forum in Technology in San Jose. He also had AP classes in Physics, Comp Sci, and Calculus among others, and his essays reflected his interests. So that is not really an overwhelming amount of activities.</p>
<p>If you're interested in politics, volunteering locally would be an excellent way to show interest. But do it only if you're really interested. I think from your other posts you're from NH; surely there will be opportunities in the next year, and you may get the chance to meet national politicians. That might make for some interesting essays. If you're interested in a research topic just go ahead and learn about it. Try contacting the applicable departments at local and state colleges for advice. </p>
<p>You'll notice that this thread is encouraging students to pursue their interest because they want to, not to structure a college application. So don't get caught up worrying about how it will look, but instead about how you will feel.</p>
<p>Great advice Marilyn, thanks a lot. Its hard to even consider "structuring an application" or do it for the passion if you don't even have opportunities to start though. </p>
<p>Btw, what is "NH" (maybe I am not aware with the abbreviation)? :)</p>
<p>I am wondering whether or not they have restrictions on what activities someone should be passionate about. I wasn't involved in 20,000 different activities in high school because I came to the conclusion on my own that it seemed much smarter to have a few genuine interests, and not to be doing a bunch of things just for the sake of doing them, even though pretty much everyone I knew disagreed with me. I had one main hobby I discovered between 10th and 11th grades and I spent much of my free time working on that. I have the feeling that this was not a college admissions-approved sort of hobby, but rather the sort of activity that people scoff at and write off as worse than watching tv for wasting time. I have a feeling that your 'passion' of choice has to be limited to certain kinds of sports, volunteering, or arts for admissions to decide that you are a passionate student as opposed to a lazy time-wasting one.</p>