Washington University in Saint Louis and Trinity College Dublin

College Search & Selection
1

Hello fellow humans,

I am a high school senior from Ohio who is deciding on a university to study political science, economics, and Spanish. After some thought, I have narrowed down my choices to Wash U and TCD. I have identified pros and cons for each of these schools; however, I am hoping that the CC community can help me out a bit.

Wash U:

ACADEMICS: At Wash U, I would major in political science while minoring in economics and Spanish. The school is consistently ranked in the top ten for undergrad polisci in the nation which is a huge pull for me. The idea of having to take three separate sets of courses frightens me a little, but, if I want to study these topics in-depth, this is the best way to go about it.

CAMPUS: When I visited the school, I wasn’t a big fan of the campus. Before visiting, I thought that Wash U was located much closer to the city of St. Louis.

INTERNSHIPS/EMPLOYMENT: Considering that I want to pursue employment opportunities in the US, the internships and job prospects seem to be better than TCD. Also, Wash U’s polisci program has one of the highest starting salaries in the country. The employability rankings online made me second guess this observation though. TCD is much higher in many employability indexes than Wash U.

COST: Wash U’s price is pretty steep. After factoring in airfare, tuition, room and board, supplies, and a number of other costs, I would have to pay close to $15,000 more per year than TCD.

TCD:

ACADEMICS: At TCD, I would major in a program called PPES and take free modules to study Spanish. PPES stands for philosophy, political science, economics, and sociology. It seems to be one of the more recognized degrees at Trinity, and the college’s polisci program has received recognition in numerous world rankings. I would be able to narrow down this degree to concentrations in political science and economics during my third year. This system seems to be much cleaner than having a major and two minors at Wash U.

CAMPUS: I loved the layout and location of TCD. Out of all of the schools I applied to, it was my favorite campus.

INTERNSHIPS/EMPLOYMENT: This is a mystery to me. Employability indexes show that TCD has a greater appeal to employers than Wash U, and statistics on PPES’s starting salaries are impossible to find. Would employers in the US respect a degree in PPES? Also, how hard would it be for me to get an internship in the States during the summer? Finally, people on CC have mentioned that Trinity has a great reputation with well-respected US law schools. Is this claim true?

COST: As I mentioned previously, TCD’s price is much lower than Wash U’s. This is due to a scholarship I received from TCD and the extremely low price of Irish universities.

2

“Employability indexes show that TCD has a greater appeal to employers than Wash U, and statistics on PPES’s starting salaries are impossible to find.”

Depends on employers where. In general, being from a European uni of the same tier as an American uni would make landing internships and jobs in the US more difficult for an American.
But yes, law schools would respect both if you do well.
But you will want to research the grading system of each. “Doing well” may be pretty different, and the honours system (which I think TCD uses) is pretty different from GPA.

3

I should have specified that the indexes that I was referring to are the Global University Employability Rankings and the QS World University Employability Rankings. Also, I have a Skype meeting arranged with a TCD ambassador tomorrow, so I will make sure to ask him about the differences between the grading systems. Thank you for the advice!

4

I’ve been on the campus of TCD and it is amazing, as is the location in the city. What an adventure that would be to attend college in Ireland! You have stated several reasons to choose TCD over Wash U:

  • cost ($60,000 difference over four years)
  • campus and location
  • major with all the subjects you want, and free Spanish on the side

Why in the world would you choose anything else? Just because a statistic somewhere said you might have it easier getting a job when you graduate or a higher salary? If you plan to attend law school, who cares about employability? That’s a non-issue. Same if you decide on another graduate degree besides law school (which you’ll probably need because that type of major – wherever you take it – does not lead to jobs without something “extra”).

If you are concerned about employability though, then do things during college that would make you employable. Just learning a bunch of knowledge isn’t enough. You need to show skills of some sort. You can write about political and other issues (online or for actual publications), conduct research with a professor, do virtual internships during the actual year, volunteer in causes related to what you are studying, take official Spanish proficiency exams from Spain to demonstrate skill level, hold leadership positions, etc. If multimedia is your thing, you could do documentaries, podcasts, interviews, etc. related to topics of interest. You could cover Irish political news as a correspondent. I’m just trying to prompt your imagination to consider how to apply what you are studying.

You can also seek internships in Ireland and elsewhere in Europe. So many political and economic internship possibilities over there! It will actually help your chances at getting work in the U.S. later – and law school admissions – if you have worked in Europe on political or economic issues. It’s one of those things that seems so impressive because it seems impossible to accomplish to the average American. My lawyer friends who got work experience in Europe during or just after college were offered amazing jobs when they returned. You can of course also seek internships in the U.S. during summers.

I think you will have a blast at TCD, meet people from around the world, and have your eyes opened in so many ways that just wouldn’t happen elsewhere.

5

Wow…That’s the best advice I’ve received throughout the college decision process. The reason why I was so concerned about the employability is because my counselor, friends, and parents believe that I will get “stuck in Europe” if I decide to work there. I often questioned the legitimacy of this statement, but I could never find research that would discount it (if you couldn’t tell from my first post, I’m kind of a data geek). Also, my parents have been stressing to me what an incredible opportunity it is to be able to attend Wash U. This has caused me to second guess myself whenever I think about choosing TCD over Wash U. I think your post will really help me to relax and go where I feel most comfortable. Thank you for taking the time to write such an in-depth analysis.

6

I wouldn’t rely on those employability indexes anyway.

7

I don’t know about employability indexes, but as a college student, Dublin >>>>> St.Louis. Plus considering the cost differential, I’d go for TCD. It’s full of students from all over Europe, and it’ll be easy for you to travel/intern in other European countries in the summers.

8

@insanedreamer: Have you been to WashU?

9

@PurpleTitan No. But I’m quite familiar with Dublin.

10

If you choose WUSTL, you could always choose to spend a semester or even a whole academic year at Trinity College (or dozens of other places).
http://sa.wustl.edu/index.cfm?FuseAction=Programs.ViewProgram&Program_ID=10115

11

@insanedreamer: I’m sure Dublin is wonderful, but I, for one, am hesitant to make a value judgement about two places unless I have actually visited both places.
If you know of only one place but not the other, I don’t see how you could make a value judgement in any fashion.

12

You’re right, that was probably a bit rash of me. Just to clarify, I wasn’t comparing WashU and TCD, just the cities of Dublin and St.Louis. Dublin has a very youthful vibe to it – especially in the summer, but year round, really – and part of that is due to having TCD smack in the middle of the town center. The streets are full of young people, there’s music and art everywhere. It has that compressed town center feel which most US cities - especially midwestern ones - don’t have. In the summer especially you’ll hear a dozen languages just walking down the street (as you might in NYC). Plus the cheap Ryan Air flights from Dublin to tons of European destinations, so you can literally hop on a plane Sat morning, spend the night in Barcelona, Florence or Prague, and come back the next day.

13

Regarding geading: 70% is a high enough grades to qualify to sit for a special scholarship. Apparently only 10% get that high if a grade. So, the grading scale is very different from the American one.

14

My two-cents…
Concerning your counselor, friends and parents worry about getting ‘stuck’ in Europe, remember that it’s pretty hard to get post-educational work visa’s from UK employers. Although quite easy for internships as a student, you’d need an employer to sponsor you for an actual job post-undergrad. Brexit may change things, but I would worry about that much later on.

The American students I’ve known who chose TCD have come away well-prepared and very happy to have had their international college experiences. They’ve all (all three…) have had easy times getting and keeping impressive jobs; one studied Politics with a French minor, one studied Econ and the third did Business studies with Polish minor. One went on to work for a well-recognized NGO, the second to a UC law school, and the third went on to an top-10 MBA program.

They’ve all said that the comparatively low debt and ability to travel within Europe to augment their studies, as well as for traveling for pleasure, really enhanced their undergrad experience.

Both of your options are great.
Best of luck with your choice.

15

Otherwise excellent advice in mommyrocks’ post, but I disagree with this.

-Thousands, probably millions of high school students think they want to go to law school (or med school, or grad school) after college and change their minds. Employability should be a concern, even if you just want to take a few years to work between college and law school.

-It’s common said but not actually true that you “need” a graduate degree to get a job with a major in the humanities or social sciences. Most humanities and social sciences majors do NOT have graduate degrees, but the vast majority are gainfully employed.