<p>Oh yes, english 45c is a required course for all prospective english major/minors, making it an ideal weeder course.</p>
<p>
[quote]
don't know about grading, but the 45 series is supposed to be hardcore. The English department is very serious about English. My friend who aced the AP Lang and Lit tests, and is generally studious, and was the second highest position on my high school's paper, and blah blah blah, (I hope you get by now that she is good at writing and what not), said that 45c was intense, even for her, and then she made it seem like she probably wouldn't consider minoring in English if her classes are as intense as that. I be it's not that tough to get a C or B- if you sincerely try to do well, maybe even a B, but anything higher and you probably have to be very good.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If this is true, then I would not consider this to be a weeder course. There are plenty of engineering students who sincerely try to do well in their weeders and STILL end up with D's and F's. </p>
<p>The way I see it is, since Berkeley requires a 2.0 in order to graduate, basically any grade that is of less value than a 2.0 is a punitive grade because it might mean termination not just from the major, but from the entire university. Hence, a punitive grade is anything of a C- and lower. Hence, to me, weeders are determined not by how few students end up with A's, but rather how many students end up with C- or lower. I am quite certain that the students in, say, Chemical Engineering 140 would absolutely LOVE to be able to trade their curve for the English 45 curve.</p>
<p>So what exactly is your definition of a weeder course? Depending on your definition, many courses in every subject may or may not be included.</p>
<p>I would say that a weeder class is any class that has a high fail rate.</p>
<p>I agree with nanday0 and would say that a weeder class is any class that has a high proportion of students who get a C- or worse. </p>
<p>It's not the difficulty of getting an 'A' that makes a class a weeder, but rather the ease of getting a grade that might get your expelled from not just the major, but from all of Berkeley, that makes a true weeder. Think of it this way. The weeder engineering courses might not just kick you out of engineering, they might kick you out of Berkeley completely. It's not just, it's not right, but that's the reality of Berkeley weeder engineering courses.</p>
<p>So then, really, how few classes are true weeders? What's a "high proportion?"</p>
<p>Obviously a 'high proportion' is in the eye of the beholder. However, I would contend that anything over 25% is a pretty darn high proportion. This would include almost all of the engineering weeders. I believe that this would also easily include Chem 3B and probably Math 1B.</p>
<p>Hmm, regarding English courses, 45A is the toughest from the 45 series. It's "Middle English" and everything you read is in Middle English. I hated that class, partly because I ended up getting a B+.</p>
<p>45C is contemporary, so it should be easier. It won't kill you per se. You might end up getting a B, which some regard as death.</p>
<p>Regarding Math 1B, all I have to say is, good luck...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Hmm, regarding English courses, 45A is the toughest from the 45 series. It's "Middle English" and everything you read is in Middle English. I hated that class, partly because I ended up getting a B+.</p>
<p>45C is contemporary, so it should be easier. It won't kill you per se. You might end up getting a B, which some regard as death.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>All the more reason why I don't think that English 45 is a weeder. If you think that getting a B is so bad, just think about all those tech students taking their weeders who end up with literally D's and F's. I'm sure that plenty of Chem 3B students would LOVE to end up with "only" a B.</p>
<p>At least 35% will end up with below an A or a B, if the university policy is being followed. How many of these tech students comprise "all of those tech students?" Sure, a fourth or a half is a lot. What statistics do you have about grades in classes?</p>
<p>I don't have online statistics, nor do I think I need them. A simple proof would be to simply peruse the grade sheets of the classes I have pointed out when they are up after finals. That way you can see what the grading distribution is.</p>
<p>Although this thread is over two years old, I must bump it to say that Sakky has no clue what he or she is talking about. </p>
<p>English 45 series is HARD-****ing-CORE.</p>
<p>what about bio 1b?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Although this thread is over two years old, I must bump it to say that Sakky has no clue what he or she is talking about.</p>
<p>English 45 series is HARD-****ing-CORE.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I must say that NoAssumptions has no clue what he or she is talking about.</p>
<p>Nobody is denying that classes like English 45 are hard. But there is a difference between a hard class and a weeder class - for in the latter, you run the significant risk of actually failing. While it's hard to get an A in English 45, how many people actually fail? That's what a weeder is all about.</p>
<p>I know someone who got a 0.0 his first semester here. Yeah, he's still here though, but he was on extra-double-OMFG probation.</p>
<p>Chem 1A has a fixed curve, so you're not competing with anyone but yourself. Math 1A is more about calculus than plain derivatives and basic integrals, so it confuses some people, but with the C- cutoff at 19/50 (on Olssen's midterm), it's still not a weeder.</p>
<p>Lots of lower division classes get the weeder label because first years taking them aren't prepared for a whole different level of thinking and work than what got them A's and 5's/7's in high school. Math 1B happens to be justifiably difficult as well, so it definitely weeds out a lot of people. I wouldn't say it's a class designed to fail or discourage underclassmen, since it's needed for so many majors, before they get into classes actually about their major. </p>
<p>OChem and Bio 1A, now those are weeders. CS 150 stops a lot of EECS in their tracks. Those are real weeders. I'd lump other classes like UGBA10 where the curve hurts under the weeder/competitive category as well, since you have to be nearly perfect to get an A.</p>
<p>ochem is definitely a weeder. I feel like even people who didn't actually fail the class (got a c- or c) decided to drop out of pre-med or majors like MCB because they thought they would never do well in the following classes after ochem.</p>
<p>^
is it true that those who got low C's do bad in classes after ochem?</p>
<p>My D at another UC where Ochem is 3 quarterly classes said people were dropping like flies, you must get at least a C to move on to the next class section and finish the series, so C- or below meant you had to repeat the section. DD got through in one try, but many many were taking classes more than once and I would assume reassessing their science major</p>