<p>alright I will see how the ACT works out, and will definately try to improve the reading score, I know its my weakest area</p>
<p>While your math score may appear low on forums like these, I would like to remind you what kind of people generally participate.</p>
<p>A 680 is a very decent math score. For the class of 2011, 54% of admitted students scored within the 600s. Also, according to princetonreview (<a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/admissions.asp?listing=1022813<id=1&intbucketid=%5B/url%5D">http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/admissions.asp?listing=1022813<id=1&intbucketid=</a>), the 75th percentile on the SAT math was 690.</p>
<p>With more and more emphasis being made for driving up Group-1 majors, I can't help but think the math scores- which I understand are weighted more than the verbal scores- will be even more important. I guess the message is to get them as high as you can.</p>
<p>^^^^^</p>
<p>You're correct that USNA is emphasizing Group 1 (engineering) and Group 2 (math & sciences) majors because they are needed for USN officers. However, USMC doesn't care what your major is and nearly 25% of the class is now selecting USMC. Thus, somewhat of a balance. </p>
<p>However, because USNA doesn't know what service you'll select upon graduation, they want to have as many entering students as possible be academically able to select a Group 1/2 major and thus the increased emphasis not only on math SAT but also on courses in h.s. Also, as most people know, even Group 3 majors take a heavy science/math/engineering courseload compared to their civilian school counterparts.</p>
<p>exactly- thus, get the Math SATs up as high as you can.</p>
<p>My son scored in the low 600s on the SAT in both math and verbal. He is taking it again in September and will also take the ACT in Sept. and Oct. in the hopes of improving his scores. I know admissions will take the highest grade in each section when considering his application. Does that mean he should wait until he has taken the tests multiple times and then he chooses which results to have submitted (can he even do that?) or does he send the results each time and admissions will just take the best score? Thanks.</p>
<p>Have the scores sent each time.</p>
<p>I would agree to have the scores forwarded each time. </p>
<p>Just one additional comment on class rank.
It is important, however keep in mind it will be taken in context of your school. For example, having a top 10% rank in a class size of 600 is very different than a top 10% in a class of 30. The USNA admissions board looks at your school profile in the points awarded for class rank..... they look at class size, what % go on to 4-year colleges, and how many AP's/IB's and honors classes are offered. They are very savy to "rank" of home schooled or small school applicants- no doubt having too many "#1's" reported from a school body of the same number! </p>
<p>The best advice is to make it all count.... do your very best to get your grades up (GPA) and your SATs up. Class rank and GPA are usually "set" by the start of senior year when the applications are submitted- so what is in your control at that point is to get your SATs (ACTs) up as high as you can- and retake as often as necessary....it can make all the difference. </p>
<p>As will CFA, teacher recs and BGO interview....all very, very important!!! And they can make or break your chances for an appointment!</p>
<p>
The weight of the class standing has very little to do with the size of the class, more to do with the 'difficulty' of the school. Therefore 3 out of 30 could rank higher, lower, or exactly the same as 60 out of 600. Don't be discouraged because you go to a small school. Be discouraged, and do better, because you go to a less rigorous school.</p>
<p>^^^which, if one continues to read the "rest" of the post, is exactly what was pointed out.</p>
<p>^^^^True. Which makes the first part of the post misleading and totally irrelevant. Just didn't want anyone to be confused and think they were at a disadvantage due to the size of their school</p>
<p>My plebe was in the first graduating class of 13 students from a unaccredited (or in process of), small, international school in a foreign country that has only been around for five years. Seems that they looked far beyond the size, accredidation, or reputation of his school. Though, I believe, it is a great school and in his class all but one student is going to college and all are scholarshiped to some degree. My second son is in the process of applying to USNA now. The other issue is that up until last year there were no AP classes. Then last year there were two.</p>
<p>
[quote]
For example, having a top 10% rank in a class size of 600 is very different than a top 10% in a class of 30.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>neither misleading or irrelevant.</p>
<p>a rank of 1-3 out of 30 is not the same as a rank of 1-60 out of a class of 600....(both a top 10%).... however the latter is awarded more "points".....(assuming both schools are equivilant in terms of % to 4 year colleges, etc)...
the example is USNA's, not mine.</p>
<p>"(assuming both schools are equivilant in terms of % to 4 year colleges, etc)...", you just stated that a 10 out of 300 automatically gets less points, than a 20 out of 600. Not true.</p>
<p>What you are perhaps attempting to state is that 1 of 600 is better than 1 of 300 which is true. However, 2 of 600 is exactly the same percentile as 1 of 300 and count the same. Etc., etc., etc.</p>
<p>hmmm...
first off, in the example shared- the number is "30" not "300."
thus...top 10% of 30 (#1,2,3) as compared to top 10% of 600 (#1,2,3....60)</p>
<p>here are the "notes" from the example we were asked to review:</p>
<p>top 10% of 30.... no points added.
top 10% of 600....500 points added.
(it may be more than 500 points- I was scribbling fast!!!!)</p>
<p>Recognizing you have been at this a whole lot longer than this "newbie," if this is not correct please let me know.... at this point in time, all I have to go by are the briefs....</p>
<p>Fifteen years ago when I first became involved with the USNA Admissions Department, points were a very closely guarded secret. Any mention thereof was usually accompanied by the tongue-in-cheek remark that “I could tell you but I would have to kill you.” About 10 years ago, they were acknowledged but continued to be shrouded in secrecy. I think five years ago, we were told the ballpark range for cutoffs for qualification and what determined an LOA. Since then, maybe due to the internet, there has been a more openness and bits and pieces of information have been promulgated. However, the premise remains that to publish the value of each and every measurable trait would defeat the purpose of seeking the well-rounded individual in that each candidate would tailor his experience to that which he felt the Academy would be looking. </p>
<p>The Academy publishes that for class standings, the class rank percentile is weighted. To this score is factored the individual’s course load and it’s rigorousness, and also the individual's grade trends. Also, the rigorousness of the high school is added, mainly factoring in the percentage of students who go on to a four year college.</p>
<p>A small snapshot of the Admissions process has been presented in the form of extra points for the top 10% of a class of 600 which would not be awarded to a top 10% graduate of a class of 30. Is this true? Who knows? What about the top 10% of a class of 599? 589? 489? 289? Does the top 10% of a class of 600 outweigh the top 5% of a more rigorous school of 300? It wouldn’t make sense would it? </p>
<p>Therefore, unless one can paint the total interaction of all factors, which Admissions will never release, this information is indeed useless, misleading, and irrelevant. It’s only purpose would be to commence a misguided exodus to all the high schools in the US with a class enrollment of greater than 600.</p>
<p>Around sixty thousand points is a decent beginning overall score. Academics, which consists primarily of SATs and class rank is a substantial portion of this. One can quickly determine that attempting to depict an accurate overall value of class standings with a possible 500 point input is not really relevant.</p>
<p>Question: Does USNA pay any special note, attention, value when a student is coming from a HS that appears to have particular success in providing successful Mids?</p>
<p>Yes, they do.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Therefore, unless one can paint the total interaction of all factors, which Admissions will never release, this information is indeed useless, misleading, and irrelevant.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Can't say that I disagree with that insofar as the factors considered are evaluated both objectively and subjectively- thus, open to varied interpretation.....but not sure I would go so far as to say "useless, misleading and irrelevant."<br>
[quote]
It’s only purpose would be to commence a misguided exodus to all the high schools in the US with a class enrollment of greater than 600.
[/quote]
highly doubtful.</p>
<p>In the end, I have always held that knowing the "how it gets done" is far less important then "getting it done".... meaning, it doesn't really matter what the USNA SAT minimums are for example...one should not aim for the "minimum," but rather for their "personal best"... and go from there. The same holds true of GPA...which factors into class rank.... just do the best you can do and shoot as high as possible....</p>
<p>There are just too many factors that get added into an offer of appointment that are not in one's control.... so on that note, understanding them in detail, while nice to know, is not going to help in the long term other than make one appreciate that the admissions board goes to great lengths to look at the "whole person".... so in knowing that, the effort should be on making one's application as strong as possible. </p>
<p>To paraphrase Zaphod from away back, it is 100% certain you will have no chance if you don't apply- so do your best, complete the application, and have a back up plan.</p>
<p>Just a curisosity question... Counting just the HS GPA/class rank and not extracurriculars and other factors. Does coming from a poor high school/school district provide you less competitive than someone who comes from a top HS in the country?</p>