Supposing you got a 1400-1500 SAT score, everything you predicted will stay the same. HOWEVER, it would be in your favor if the score was 1500+ in order to be more competitive.
When you apply at the beginning of your senior year, your application will only show 9th-11th grades. So you’ll have whatever 9th grade consists of in the opinion of whoever creates the transcript covering that grade - maybe all three years, maybe only the last one - with pass fail grades. You’ll have 10th grade with your online school transcript showing all As in non-demanding classes. You’ll have 11th grade, which appears to be starting off with more demanding classes and good grades. But you won’t have anything but planned classes for 12th, and schools aren’t going to just assume you’ll pull all As in demanding classes and give you credit for that; they’re going to judge you on the three completed years that are available to them.
I didn’t argue with every response… if any at all. I completely understand that rule and will follow it. I was simply attempting to point out the weirdness of the situation-- I gave full numbers but wouldn’t get a response because the number I gave wasn’t a direct reference to my test. “If I didn’t first say that I haven’t taken the test, the responses would be flowing in with direct comments.”
- Oh okay. My mistake. What is the point of "what are my chance" then? Just wondering, it's not a rhetorical question.
- That's great to know, thank you.
- Sounds good, I'll try that out when I have the time!
- Oh really? I'll check into that. I might have to rule out the entire state of California then.
Thanks!
Y"our background has numerous red flags. Inconsistent academics, aspirational test scores , fairly pedestrian extracurriculars, unrealistic target schools, a history of emotional issues that has led to fluctuations in both results and rigor, ambiguity around financial need and an inflated sense of entitlement as evidenced by the following;"
That is why I am here, to figure out the red flags and get a better target school. The inconsistent academics isn’t really true, I have only one poor grade and ever since then I’ve been doing solid. Ambiguity around financial need is definitely a tough one and I apologize for that. Emotional issues isn’t exactly how I would describe my past either, but that’s a reasonable comment considering the information I gave. The sense of entitlement is an understandable opinion… Looking back on the thread, I poorly misjudged the community. This was more like a job interview than a conversation with someone I know, which I wasn’t prepared for. I stand by the “no offense, I don’t really think anything you said was credible” comment; without any information given, he suggested I look towards community college applications. I was asking for more information on it so I could judge it better. Not all advice is good advice, and I didn’t really think what he said was credible, hence why I asked for some clarification. As for the comment “that’s pretty dumb,” I think I represented myself poorly. I just meant that it is kind of odd that people must know real-life accurate numbers rather than a number I provided to estimate. I could simply say that is what I got on my SATs and have no problem, that is why I find it kind of dumb. Probably not the best adjective to use, but I honestly didn’t expect such a formal community such as this one-- my mistake. I’ll work on my social awareness, although it is incredibly hard to do in an online setting where one or two comments can be completely misinterpreted. Where I am from, we use “dumb” in every third sentence… it’s a bad habit that I have to break to become more professional.
As for your standards, I believe I have been maintaining all of those (except maybe the SAT). I understand your point of view, I definitely look like a pompous ass in the eyes of most people here; that was a poor miscalculation on my part. A friend of mine recently got accepted into Harvard and he is exactly the person you are describing, I apologize for coming off like this. I feel as if I’ve been kind in every other wording of every other sentence, so I am surprised at the amount of backlash, but regardless I understand why you guys think of me like this.
I appreciate your comments on the depression and future concerns. I definitely haven’t really thought of it like this, so I will be careful when proceeding in the future.
If you wouldn’t mind, I’d love to hear some suggestions for extracurriculars! I don’t really know what’s a good or bad EC and how many to have; I just kind of do stuff that seems interesting to me and try my best at it.
I do appreciate the reality check, even though some information was based on my inaccurate descriptions.
Thank you.
That’s really good information. Thank you!!
Great point. I’m kind of a wildcard applicant… which definitely hurts my chances. I think what I have gathered is a great SAT score for me is really damn important. Considering the online environment, the lack of tough courses in grade 9/10, and the unknown element of my classroom performance.
Thank you both!
The reason people need actual test scores (or even an estimate grounded in at least one practice test) is that your grades, such as they are, provide no useful information. A 4.0 in on-level classes and a 1000 SAT versus a 4.0 in on-level classes and a 1500 SAT really is the difference between a kid who is likely to be more successful at community college and a kid who could reasonably reach for a highly selective school. And right now you are a kid with a 4.0 in on-level classes and absolutely no idea which of those test scores is more likely, assuming it’s entirely reasonable to reach for a highly selective school and bristling at the suggestion of community college.
So go download a practice SAT, read the little packet that explains how the test works, take a timed practice test, and come back with the result.
Will do!
I don’t think I was clear when I talked about why I posted this… so I’ll try to clear it up for anyone who might not understand.
I wanted to know what my chances are if I have an x score on the SAT because I wanted to know what would happen if I performed poorly on it. It’s a state of mind thing; something that reassures me I will be fine. When I take the SAT, it’d be awesome to know a target score and what schools I will be applying to if I don’t do well. It would kind of relieve the pressure!
The uncertainty has been killing me. Coming into this with no help or knowledge is really tough because I learn potentially life-changing information with every comment. Without my original posts on this forum, I likely would be looking at a local community college, now I am looking at elite schools across North America.
Unless you have a strong hook like URM, first gen, the top schools will require a 1400/1450 SAT to be competitive at all, assuming a high GPA with rigorous course load. For the very top schools, that score is probably closer to 1500. As numerous other posters have suggested, take a practice SAT under strict time conditions to see what score you will likely obtain, and from there you can begin to form your list of safety, match and reach schools, with the understanding that the very top schools will be reaches for virtually every applicant, including ones with perfect GPA’s, rigorous course load and perfect to near perfect test scores.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. This is a really basic question but what classifies as first gen? My dad didn’t go to college and my mom went to a small Bible school in Canada.
I totally understand that top schools are reach for every applicant. I just want to get to the point where I am competitive and the rest is in their hands! After all, if they don’t select me then I wouldn’t be a good fit there anyway!
I appreciate the specific scores you gave, it’s actually really helpful to know information like that.
If you do poorly, then, as you said in your original post, you go to college in Canada.
All three of the threads you appear to have started named a slew of super reaches in the very first post. No one here put that idea in your head.
@allyphoe I don’t really understand what you mean, would you mind rephrasing that?
To clarify, I was talking about how I learned a lot with this forum and I’m thankful for that. For example, my old thread taught me that I essentially need to take AP Physics and 3 years of foreign language to be considered for the schools on my list. Without this information, I would never have a chance at the schools on my list! I’m thankful.
Also, that isn’t quite what I said/meant. I said/meant that if I can’t get into a top50-100 school in the US, I will probably go to school in Canada. The question was: if I do mediocre on the SAT, can I still get into these schools; I never said that if I do mediocre on the SATs I will go to school in Canada.
Just a few point regarding your ECs:
National Society of High School Students and National Youth Leadership Forum don’t mean anything, they are basically pay-for-play.
National Honor Society membership is not such a big deal for top schools, let alone being denied from it.
Learning a new coding language is something every serious CS-oriented high school student does, so this doesn’t really distinguish you either.
Hard to tell about your product and patent without knowing more, but this doesn’t look like a definite result you can brag about.
So no, your ECs will not distinguish you a your reach schools and will definitely not compensate for a poor SAT. I would advise you to concentrate on improving your test-taking skills and probably reorient to Canadian universities. UToronto and some others are really good in CS.
If you do poorly on the SAT, you will not get into a highly selective US school, and by extension will go to school in Canada.
Great to know! I had no clue about any of that to be honest with you.
Did I say denied from NHS? I didn’t mean that, sorry. I meant that I didn’t join the NHS because I have unreliable internet/schedule.
Gonna be real with you, I really want to go to a school in the states. Although education is really important to me, I also want to live in a place where I feel comfortable and where I can really grow. I genuinely dislike Toronto and Quebec, so I don’t think I could live there for four years-- I’ll definitely look at schools like UBC, but I would love to end up in the US if it is possible. I’ve traveled a lot in my short life and I much prefer the states over Canada
(for those that are wondering, it’s mostly because of the options. I think that in Canada people are kind of limited…there are generally fewer schools, fewer people, fewer startups, fewer places to explore, fewer expansion options, fewer opportunities, and all that stuff. I love Canada and I love the people here, but the states can offer a lot more to me.)
I really appreciate you bringing up my ECs. Do you have any suggestions for me? I would love to hear any options I have! Like I mentioned earlier, I mostly just do whatever comes to me and other stuff that I enjoy; I don’t really know much about what colleges want to see and what they don’t.
From my research (not intensive tbh), I’ve found that people with strong passion and activities related to said passion are often chosen over students who just sign up for everything in hopes to pad their application. If this is true, I definitely think I can bring something to the table as I am a very passionate person. I am super intrigued with game design, robotics, coding, and business.
I only have a half-a-year or so until I start my applications, so any tips on ECs would be fantastic!
Thank you!
Two things to keep in mind:
I know multiple people who did undergrad in Canada, and graduate school at a highly ranked university in the US (at least a master’s degree, in two cases PhD’s). Graduate school admissions in the US know how strong the universities in Canada are. When you get to applying for graduate school, high school grades won’t matter at all.
I am not sure about what any one school will do. However, I have seen cases in which students had inconsistent grades with a strong uptrend, and universities have waited to get mid-term grades from the student’s senior year. I would recommend that you keep up your strong effort senior year and keep your grades up. If nothing else this will make you better prepared for when you do get to university.
You want to get theoretical. I understand. But getting into top colleges starts with attention to the practical aspects.
First things first: you don’t understand what tippy top or top US colleges look for and need to catch up on that. They set high expectations, have up to 20:1 competition for an admit and can pick those with the very best records, academics, scores, ECs, and the level of thinking. They do not take kids based on their “promise” or a recent upturn. The competition is that tough, with lots of kids who have a consistent record. That’s important because these colleges are difficult, once there. They know it and look for that record of strengths.
Get a Fiske Guide to Colleges and read everything you can on the colleges’ web sites.
It appears you don’t have the full range of high school courses they recommend. Or the rigor. I don’t see math-sci ECs, which you’d need for stem at a top or tippy top. You’ll need subject tests, as well.
So, you do this practical part, read what the colleges say, take the SAT or ACT, tell us your scores, look into the subject tests they require, see what you can add in ECs (actual activities, not nominations,) etc. Then we’d have more to discuss.
“My family and I have a really unknown budget right now because a lot could change for us in the coming year.” Realize these colleges cost up to 70k/year. Again practical, you need to have some idea what your family can pay. There’s a huge difference between “maybe 10k/year” and “maybe 70k/year.” Your parents have some sort of income and assets today. That forms the basis for your initial affordability decisions. There will be no financial aid at some of those schools.
Btw, keep up the turnaround. You’re growing and that’s great. But this biz of aiming high in college targets is fraught with risks. Alot IS about conforming to their expectations. They look at “what is.”
“I’ve found that people with strong passion and activities related to said passion are often chosen over students who just sign up for everything in hopes to pad their application…”
“Passion” is over-rated, in this game. It’s the record of actions and results, first. They need a way to assess and that’s based on the choices you did make, the awareness and thinking (or not) that went into decisions along the way- academic and activities. The challenges, the good you do. That’s what shows drives. “Show, not just tell.”
There are many astute posters on CC, with a lot of knowledge of Canadian colleges, and they often hold them in higher esteem than many US colleges. It seems to me that, if you could continue this upturn, do well in a Canadian U, add some accomplishments, you might want to set sights on US graduate school.
Ah, yet again rhetoric has caused me some problems. When I referred to my SAT scores as poor, I meant mediocre, as in slightly above average-- poor compared to my GPA or other applicants. My mistake.
Great information, thank you! Didn’t know they could wait to see my mid-term grades in senior year. That is definitely something that would benefit both me and the school, so hopefully that will happen.
Straight to the point, I like it! Thanks for the time and effort! I really do appreciate your help along with everyone else!!
I have to begin by saying that I am not looking to be a top applicant at Ivy Leagues. I understand why you would think that, but I am not really aiming that high. I’ll probably apply there, but I know it’s very likely I would be rejected.
Your emphasis on the competition has reassured me what I already kind of know-- they’re not only looking for top-tier academic students but people who fill a needed role in the college. I should quickly note that I’m not saying "Harvard or bust!"I am saying that, although I will definitely apply to top tier schools, I would be completely content with a school such as Vanderbilt, University of Washington CS, USC, and others like them. I kind of got a vibe that you think I am looking for everything I can do to get into Harvard, but I want to assure you that I am mainly focussed on schools that I can control my admission better (e.g. Stanford might choose someone with a worse academic record over me because he/she is a minority who played Jazz in high school and they need some more people like them… I can’t really control that).
I’m surprised that you say I don’t have the rigor, as I’ve taken the hardest version of nearly every single class since I first enrolled. I assume you’re talking about Ivy League applicants once again who have taken nothing but AP and Honor courses since grade 9 and have aced the SATs. I can’t change my past 2 grade levels, but I can change grade 12 classes; if you have any ideas please let me know! I’ll be sure to check out that site as well.
I’ll tell you right now, I’m not a great science student (excluding Physics), and have absolutely no intentions of taking subject tests in this area. I probably should have said this earlier, but I’m probably not the average person on this forum asking for help. My academics aren’t everything to me and I would much prefer to enjoy my time than spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours working on subjects that I hate. With that said, I really enjoy a lot of my classes and I enjoy a lot of my ECs; I have a strong work ethic, but if I’m not interested in something then I won’t really dedicate a lot of my time to it. I know what you’re thinking-- how do you expect to get in an Ivy League school with that attitude? And you would be right. I don’t expect much coming out of high school, I just want to see where I stack up and what schools I should be looking at!
I don’t have much to say regarding financials, a lot can change in two years and I don’t want to incorrectly estimate my families budget. May I ask why this is important? Of course, I understand that when making a college list that is one of the most influential factors, but my focus is more on the tier or level of college rather than the schools themselves.
All I really have left to say/ask is regarding ECs–
Do you guys have any suggestions or links for ECs? I genuinely have no clue what colleges look for and what is considered a good or bad activity. I thought I was in good shape with the nominations, but now I realize it’s something to tell your Aunts at Thanksgiving, not CalTech during admissions.
I have to say I grossly underestimated this site, you guys are hardcore with your help! I really do appreciate it and I apologize for my lack of information given! Thank you Thank you!
Once you mention Stanford, Harvard, MIT, et al, once you even breathe that idea, the sea temp changes.
Kids who list high reach colleges often mis-guage what a match or safety is. Sure, Vandy is “easier” to get into than MIT. But it’s still a matter of whether or not YOU match.
Match is a lot about conformity. Meeting their expectartions. Not unusual or maybe, maybe, maybe lightning will strike.
“Your emphasis on the competition has reassured me what I already kind of know-- they’re not only looking for top-tier academic students but people who fill a needed role in the college.”
Not quite. Of course they’re looking for top students. And a high level of energy that shows in what you’ve actually done.
What “role” do you think you fulfill? (Though imo, it’s not about a “role” wild card.) What specifically shows any holistic college why they should take you? To answer that, you need a good understanding of what they DO look for. Of course you’d be content to land at Vandy or USC. So would thousands of others. But what makes you a match for these holistic colleges? What they want? It all matters.
Btw, you need to be a great science student to get into a competitive college for a stem major.
I’d like to see you go back to the drawing board and do enough research on your matches and safeties. Come up with ideas how you can show these holistic colleges you’re a great stem applicant. Reconsider the right list.
I’m going to back off commenting until then.
This one last comment.
None of this is about, “My academics aren’t everything to me and I would much prefer to enjoy my time than spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours working on subjects that I hate.”
Let them see that and your ship is in a big storm. Life’s not like that. Top college admissions certainly isn’t.
My main reason for being here is to evaluate my school list. I’m sure I have been miss-gauging what is a match or safety school-- that’s why I am here.
I totally agree with that. I’m going to do best where I am most comfortable and where I fit best. I think the best way to do this is to tour colleges (which I am beginning to do) and figure out where I like the most. As for academics, I’ll leave that up to the colleges to determine if I am a good fit!
I knew that wasn’t the right wording when I typed it, but I was too lazy to figure out a better way of saying it. I mostly meant that these top tier schools such as MIT, Stanford, Harvard, etc. are focused on if the applicant brings something specific to the school with the end goal being diversity (ethical, academically, intellectual, etc.). (I think!)
Serious question, don’t they (college admissions) determine the majority of the matching? They examine my entire life for the past four years and figure out if I am right for them. Of course, I should also look into where I would match best, but I still am confused with the purpose of your question.
I am a pretty relaxed guy, I would like to think that wherever I end up, it’ll be the best match for me. After all, I have enough interest to apply and the school thinks I would fit in well!
Could you define great science student for me? I have a 4.0 in Bio and Chemistry and am taking AP Physics next year, is this sufficient? Wish I knew that before this year, so I could have taken AP Chem. I’d assume SAT Subject tests are a near must for STEM majors in these schools? That’s rough for me.
Yikes, I must be on the wrong path! I thought this was my research on matches and safeties, haha. I don’t mean to discredit myself, but I’m not exactly sure I’m qualified to determine what is a good activity to show colleges I’m a great STEM applicant. The only thing I can think of is taking the most rigorous courses in the field and doing as much coding in my spare time as I can-- making projects like apps or something like that.
Thank you again! You don’t have to comment again, but I learn so much with every comment, I encourage anyone to give any advice! Have a good night.