Just to give you an idea about ECs - national-level awards like IMO or ISEF, a very successful business, or life story of extreme deprivation may make up for less-than-stellar GPA and test scores in Harvard and the like. Or may not.
I think you should stop worrying about your college list and actually take SAT, then the picture will become clearer. You might surprise yourself and do well.
I’ll be blunt: You’re an international student who has attended (in your own words) poor online schools, have an entire year of poor grades, have no SAT scores and don’t test well, don’t have a particularly rigorous academic record, need financial aid, and have mediocre ECs (you can’t report recommended for ECs you didn’t particpate in). You have no chance at top US colleges. Even top SAT scores won’t change that.
^ I agree with the post above. I would recommend attending a local Canadian school, getting good grades, then transferring to a US school for grad school. Based on your posts, I don’t really think you would be a good fit for Ivies/top schools.
I agree that a top college for undergraduate school isn’t very likely for you (graduate school is a different game).
A few points, though:
- You made a comeback, and that's great (keep it up). But an upward trend is still second fiddle to having a consistent record all along. You are up against students from great high schools who got top grades in honors and advanced classes from day one of high school. Next up are the kids who took honors and advanced classes and got mixed results before working up to being A students (they get credit for trying, though) or the kids who didn't take honors, but got nearly perfect grades all along. Then there is you: not honors or advanced, but worked into it. That's common, which makes standing out more difficult (possible, but difficult).
- You can probably get into a top 50-100 college, but it's still somewhat unlikely you'd be a direct-admit to a CS or engineering major. A school in that range will accept 50-70% of applicants on the whole (give or take), but the acceptance rates for direct-admits to CS and engineering programs at those levels are more like 10-15% (again, give or take). So if that's your plan, you should probably target top 100-200 colleges. Or look at liberal arts colleges, many of which are great schools and ranked separately from national universities, but are much less likely to require you to declare a field of study up front.
- EC's... do something you enjoy. There is no EC better than another. It's the journey of growth, challenge, and accomplishments that top colleges want to see. Then again, some colleges don't consider EC's at all, so if you don't have much to go on, there are schools out there that will take you. They seem to lean towards being state schools with not much aid, but as an international student with less than stellar stats, you may not see much in the way of help anyway.
- Top colleges seem to prefer outgoing kids. I'm generalizing here. Of course they'll take a good number of strongly introverted geniuses too. But recognize that an online-educated kid with primarily solitary ECs is going to have a pretty large hurdle, especially with less-than-perfect stats and a whole lot of W's and P/Fs on their transcript.
- Your best strategy, in my opinion, is to go for up-and coming schools like Alabama (which is giving so many merit scholarships, I bet it will scream up the ranks in the next decade or so) or Montana State University, which has been slowly but steadily climbing.
Can we start defining top school? When you guys say top schools, are you strictly talking about Stanford, MIT, CalTech, and Ivies? Or are you guys talking about nearly every top50 school. I’m not exactly sure what a top school is considered to be.
Again, I should say that I don’t have a “Harvard or bust” mentality. I’m aiming for schools around the same level as Vanderbilt, USC, University of Washington CS, BU, and others like that. I understand why everyone is fixated on absolute top schools, as that has been the general topic throughout the 3 pages, but I assure you that I am not focussed on those colleges.
Hits hard but I appreciate it. I should say though, not all of this information is correct. My online school for grade 10-11-12 is really good, I just did one crappy grade.
Ignoring the SAT for now (I’ll get back to it later)
My academic is nearly as rigorous as it can be in these last two years, I assume you are talking about grade 9 and 10?
I don’t need financial aid, they won’t give me it anyway.
A lot of people have brought up my ECs, which I really appreciate, but can anyone tell me some good ECs to take? Yucca made a great comment but otherwise, it’s mostly been people telling me they aren’t good. I would love to hear any advice on what is considered good for my interests. When I try to think about something extra to do in Computer Science, I can’t think of much other than to make an application, get a job, learn more, or intern somewhere. As for business, I can only think of doing a startup by myself and investing, kind of what I have already been doing.
So in theory, if I had top SAT scores and a near-perfect GPA, I wouldn’t have a chance at “top schools.” You must be talking about Ivies and Stanford and all that right? I can’t imagine that in this hypothetical my best college would be something like UCSB.
Yeah, I completely understand that. I debated even saying that on this forum because the truth is, I really love pretty much all of my classes and love doing my work. I just think everyone on this forum is talking about me and Ivy Leagues, this was clearly a mistake on my end somewhere (probably the title). Rhetoric is so annoying sometimes when online, because for me, elite and top schools probably have a different meaning than anyone else.
I am not disappointed with the replies AT ALL. I have learned so much and I am so thankful. I do wish the conversation was more centered on my chances at slightly lesser colleges (top 50-100 maybe), rather than saying “you have no chance at an Ivy League.” That’s my fault with the rhetoric.
Should I make a new thread or is that against some rules? I just don’t want to spam the forums with conversations that aren’t necessary!
Thanks, everyone.
Vanderbilt had an RD acceptance rate of 7.3% last year. USC was about 13%. BU 22%. UW CS direct admit for OOS students is a vanishingly small percentage.
You should not make a new thread. You should go take your practice test and come back with the results.
Also, “semantics” is the word you’re looking for, not “rhetoric.”
Nobody can talk realistically about your chances without knowing your test scores. You listed a number of your dream and reach schools on top of your list, so naturally the conversation tends to focus on them.
Talking about ECs - writing an app that’s actually used by other people, an internship or a job, math/programming competitions, these are all good. Participating in more team-oriented activities and helping your community is also important, colleges need to know you are not focused on yourself and can show initiative and leadership.
You are hesitant to take STEM Subject tests, yet want to be a STEM major. Perhaps your first step should be to visit the websites of each of the schools you have on your list, and look at their actual application requirements. Some will require two subject tests related to your intended major. Some will also have other specific course requirements (like the 2 or 3 years of language). You will have to submit ALL high school transcripts, to include all “9th grade” classes you took over those 3 years.
You want to enter CS, Robotics, or some form of Engineering. While you have learned a coding language, and are taking AP CSP this year, what background do you have in engineering? Many students end up transferring out of Engineering programs - sometimes because the rigor is too much (and you don’t yet have a track record taking that kind of rigorous course load), but also because they discover they don’t like engineering, it’s not what they expected. Some start in Engineering because they know it’s easier to transfer FROM engineering than TO engineering, because the degree plans are so compact. Because it’s hard to get into engineering programs, you will be competing against students with a stronger record: completion of Calculus before senior year, completion of 3 sciences before senior year, and an AP version Senior year (if Physics, it will be Physics C because AP Physics 1 and 2 and introductory classes. If they are going into robotics, they will have been involved in a robotics club, either in their school or in their community.
What is your end goal? Do you want to attend one of these schools, or do you want to graduate with a degree from one of these schools? Those are two very different goals. If the goal is to graduate from one of these programs, you might be better served by attending a community college, or even another 4 year school, and transferring in after establishing a solid academic record at the college level.
Lastly, don’t underestimate the impact of your three years in 9th grade. You have recovered, but I suspect you don’t really have a full understanding of depression, any more than many of the posters here. If you suffered from depression those 3 years, you are predisposed to a relapse. Top colleges may be hesitant to accept you without a plan in place to deal with that possibility - two years of good grade with increasing rigor will help, but depression is not uncommon at the campuses you are considering, and you will be attending a campus, not another online program. You don’t have any track record taking classes in person - a year or two at another college would give you that experience, without the pressure of a top school. Alternatively, you might consider supplementing your online classes with one or two at a local college. It would be a shame for you at gain admission to a top school, and spend considerable money, only to discover the environment doesn’t suit you well.
Sweet, I will do that. Thank you for all the help!
Great information, thank you!
I’ll check out those sites, thanks. I don’t have any background in engineering, which I understand will put me at a massive disadvantage. I think that Computer Science would be the best field for me; if that doesn’t work out then I might look to lower-tier schools with a robotics program.
Regarding the depression, I definitely understand where you are coming from. I don’t really want to dive into specifics, but I don’t think I apply to this. I should have clarified that this wasn’t a hardcore depression, it was diagnosed as low-grade and was brought on by a series of unfortunate events. I don’t think it applies to anything in my future, but I appreciate the advice regardless.
It seems like my downfall is the “Wildcard Factor,” my unknown performance in a social environment can scare schools off and possibly end up wasting me a lot of money. Minimizing this factor is the best way to secure my spot at one of these colleges.
I would like to say that I would much rather get acceptance into a top50-100 school and find out I don’t like it and leave than to never go to college and always wonder “what if?”
Oh, thanks for the tip. Didn’t realize that! I’ve been using that wrong for a long time, aha.
I’ll definitely take the test scores and come back. Right now I am more focused on learning more about my ECs and possible struggles.
Thanks, everyone. Any tips on ECs or anything else would be appreciated, but I don’t think there is much more to discuss! I can’t tell you guys how much I appreciate these life-changing comments! Have a great American Thanksgiving.
I agree, there is not much more to discuss, but one thing that kept going through my head while reading these posts: you will be applying as an international student. The top schools will take maybe 3-5 students from Canada each year (excluding recruited athletes for sports like ice hockey). The question to ask is whether you are one of the top students from Canada in the year that you will be applying? It’s not just about being the best in your school or even the best in your province when applying to highly selective US universities.
As far as ECs are concerned, if you are interested in robotics/CS, I would look into participation on a robotics team, perhaps on the coding sub-team. There are typically robotics teams that are not based on a particular high school, but a group of schools or home schools/online students who meet together locally. FIRST robotics is a good place to start investigating, and there are different types of robotics groups within FIRST. VEX Robotics is another one. Perhaps some CS related volunteer work, like teaching technical skills to the community, or refurbishing donated computers. A CS related internship or summer research position would be valuable.
I would also recommend taking the highest level math class you can in high school, because CS majors need to have a strong math foundation and will be expected to take very rigorous math classes in college. Your math SAT score/ACT score will be important, and Math II would be a good subject test for you.
For ECs look at the results threads from last year. Students who got accepted and rejected post their profile. (ie search: target school, 2020, results).