We're picking up the pieces, but what went wrong?

Parents Forum
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<p>Suze:</p>

<p>IMO, the best strategy for taking a lot of the guesswork and fear out of the college process is to honestly evaluate your chances, do your homework early, pick the school that you really want to attend, research it so you can verbalize why with specifics, make sure it's a school where you have a legitimate shot at admission (not a lottery long-shot), and apply binding early decision.</p>

<p>Because finances are not a driving factor, you are in the ideal position to follow this approach. The colleges get something of value (guaranteed yield), they know you want to attend, and you can focus sufficiently to really tailor an application for that school. Even more importantly, you are catching the adcoms early in the season, well before the point of burn-out. Imagine what happens to them after reading a thousand applications? Jaded.</p>

<p>The mistake kids make is holding out a false hope of Harvard, Yale, or Princeton when the reality is that would require a miracle to happen (not saying, in your case, just in general). So they waste a meaningless EA application on a total wing and a prayer ("hey, ya never know, maybe I'll get lucky!) and end up getting waitlisted in April at a school in RD that would have been a great fit and where they could have gotten a comfortable ED acceptance with a focused, well-targeted application if only they'd been realistic from the start. In a Shakesperean tragedy, I guess the fatal flaw in these cases would be greed.</p>

<p>To me, the ideal ED school is one where you figure a 50%/50% shot in RD (through 75th percentile stats and/or a strong EC identity). The ED takes a lot of the risk out of the equation. You won't catch the adcom in a bad mood when he's just going scream at the next college essay he reads... and it's yours. If your EC is community service, you won't get the horrible luck of being the next app in the pile immediately after the kid who won a national Toyota Scholarship for starting a service project in Little Haiti in Miami. You won't catch the committee on a day when they've just accepted 20 apps from prep school kids and are desperately combing the pile in search for an app from an inner-city public. You just take a lot of the variables out of the equation.</p>

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<p>I think that interesteddad is right.......</p>

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<p>I agree too. If finances are not an issue and you have a good feel for the differences between schools and the sort of "school culture" you want, the decision of which is your top realistic choice can as easily be made in November as it can in April.</p>

<p>If possible, find your top two-- an ED and and ED2 school. You can also choose an EA or Rolling safety or match at the same time.</p>

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<p>A story: I teach writing to grad students at a major university. One of the most moving pieces I ever read—and as a parent most instructive—was written by a young woman who had been rejected by her top choice ivy league schools, despite having done everything "right": Top h.s. grades, scores, activities, recommendations, community service, blah, blah. She ended up going to an excellent liberal arts college and then on to a top grad school. But her essay was about how for three of her four undergraduate years, she' been unable to enjoy her college experience because she felt she had deserved better. Ultimately, she gained some perspective on it but she admitted that she wasted a lot of energy being miserable. </p>

<p>Guess this is a way of saying that wherever your son ends up -- and I have no doubt he'll find some place that really appreciates him -- make sure he feels good about being there.</p>

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<p>The school I would really love is Dartmouth. Both of my parents are grads making me a double legacy for whatever that's worth. I think I have good reasons beyond my parents for wanting to go. Whether I would have a 50/50 chance RD is a question after seeing this year's results. This is what I have been planning for ED and my counselor supports. Sound logical?</p>

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<p>Sounds logical. As always, however, have a back-up. If you end up being deferred after applying ED and being a double legacy, realize that's a big hint to have lots of back-ups, including some solid schools outside of the typical places where students at your school are applying to. Make sure, too, that you'd be willing to go to those colleges.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Yes, very logical Suze. Off the tiop of my head some slightly less selective and or geographically opportune schools in the Dartmouth mold would be Carleton, Kenyon, Colgate, Hamilton, St Lawrence.</p>

<p>(Maybe you should start a thread on this topic rather than hijack?)</p>

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<p>Send me a PM Suze, DD is Dartmouth 09, but she benefited greatly from geographic diversity, which you might have to reverse, I have some ideas for your list, based on her research.</p>

<p>As has been stated before on this thread, safeties (foundation schools, I love that term) are all important, and geography is more important than we think - I really think it tipped the scale for my daughter, especially in the context of ED.</p>

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<p>Whoops, didn't realize the need to form my own thread. Thanks for the help!</p>

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<p>I believe that you said top 10% of your class an an elite NE boarding school. If so, I can't think of any reason that Dartmouth wouldn't be a very appropriate ED choice. Dartmouth's admissions, unlike all but a half dozen or so schools, follow reasonably predictable trends. With a double legacy and a well-crafted application, I would expect positive results, all things being equal. Great high school, appropriately high class rank, 75th percentile SATs, double-legacy, Early Decision, can pay full-fare -- sounds like an attractive application to me.</p>

<p>Plus, you'll beat all your classmates who have Dartmouth as their "safety" for HYPSM. Beating the rush is one of the benefits of ED!</p>

<p>Just be sure that you work the schools lower on your list to establish a record of interest. That way, if you need them, you won't be viewed as a "Tufts Syndrome" applicant. Really important given your high school.</p>

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<p>S and I have come out of the doldrums, back from the dead! We're wiping away our tears, have got a plan of action and are forging ahead. When we've had success I'll be back to let you know how we did it!!!! And believe me, it will be due to all of your support. This is going to be a challenge but we aim to win!
andi
ps I'll still be around on other threads, just not mourning our losses on this one</p>

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<p>Andi, I have been in your position. My oldest was simply not willing to cooperate with our research and insisted on following the lead of others at her school who were Ivy-crazy. She had good scores, good grades, good ECs and good recs, but was one of those dime a dozen kids.....a normal kid who had not yet figured out her life's passion, who was not the amazing miracle child, but still had done a consistent, great job. No surprise to me, she got into our state safety (mom insisted on her adding it to the list), one top 30 private and waitlisted at a similar private. The rest were declines. It was very sad.</p>

<p>With kid #2, I was determined not to have that happen and luckily she was quite willing to work with her parents on the whole process. We are 6/7 with 2 top 20 schools, top LAC, a safety with lots of $, plus two matches with some small $. Thanks to my experience the first time and what I have learned on this board, I came up with a great list. More to the point, though, she is an unusual kid- national/international sport experience, but it is a club sport so no major sport recruitment. It is, however, her passion and her essays showed that. Her essays remarkably showed who she is and if the school who denied her did not like her, then she did not belong there, her essays were strong in that they accurately conveyed who she is. I do not know if my older kid could have done that? Her essays were fine, good, well written, but she had not yet discovered all those things about herself....DD2 knows herself inside and out and that is what makes her remarkable.</p>

<p>I think you likely did research and I have no clue how your sons essays were received, nor how his recommendations looked. I do know that I was allowed to see recs for both kids (after the fact as I looked through the school file to fill out scholarship forms) and DD1's were good, fine, but DD2's were better...subtly...so, who knows when every CC kids says great essays & great recs....how do they know unless they have seen truly remarkable ones. All of them should be "good," all essays should be well-written, but how many are truly special!?</p>

<p>My biggest recommendation to parents out there is to help your child find his/her passion and pursue it. Then pursue schools where that passion will be addressed and, hopefully, a good selection of schools will be offered come April</p>

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<p>Andi, I do hope all works out for your son, and I'm sure it will. When one door closes another opens. This thread sure does give us parents of juniors food for thought. At this point, I think ALL of my daughter's choices are safety schools....but if she likes them I guess that is not a bad thing.</p>

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<p>Andi--pulling for your S (and his mom) :).</p>

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<p>Andi Jr's essay was fine. Very well written. Probably didn't knock them out with personality, but it didn't hurt his application. </p>

<p>I really think it boiled down to a top-heavy list and not workin' the too few realistic reach/match schools.</p>

<p>Lesson for next year's parents: People are always saying, what's the harm in shooting for the HYPSM moon? Well, the harm is that it can muddle the thinking and prevent focusing on the real task at hand: Finding schools you can get into and then making sure you get into them!</p>

<p>At the end of the day, applying to a lot schools you can't get into just detracts from the effort. The thing that really breaks my heart for Andi, Jr. is that, if he had built his list around schools with the selectivity of Swarthmore, WashU, and Oberlin as the top of the list and worked those types of schools, he'd probably be waving a handful of acceptances and probably some merit money if he'd expanded the list down a notch. If you want to take a flyer on an extreme reach, fine. But, do it as an add-on. Work the schools that respond to working. HYPSM don't care if you want to go there or not. They don't care if you've researched their campus culture or anything else. With 80% yield, they don't need to care.</p>

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<p>Numbers and letters are meaningless. The best advise I can anyone is to investigate which college suits you the best and not to rely on this website, rankings, or household name colleges. The entire application must be personal. Show creativity, ingenuity, and uniqueness in the essay and personal statements. If one plays a musical instrument why not record a CD for the admissions officer(s) to hear or perhaps send art work, poetry, pictures; anything to show who you really are. A good recommendation is not based on whether or not the right hand boxes are checked or if the person writing the recommendation does not mention any weaknesses. Most importantly remember that none of the people here, including myself, are admissions officers or college advisors.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If one plays a musical instrument why not record a CD for the admissions officer(s) to hear or perhaps send art work, poetry, pictures; anything to show who you really are.

[/quote]
Why not? Well, for starters, how about the fact that most schools specifically ask you not to burden them with unsolicted drawings, recordings, essays, and the like. They simply don't have the time to listen to, look at, and read all the material they would get if people followed this advice.</p>

<p>Here's an illustrative quote directly from the Stanford FAQ, for example.</p>

<p>Can I submit additional materials with my application? Does it help to send in writing samples, poetry, research papers, high school projects, original computer programs, or any other special work I’ve done while in high school?</p>

<p>We ask that you not submit résumés or additional materials beyond what we specifically request. Please use the forms, questions, and spaces allocated in our application, no more, no less. We are not able to review or return your supplementary materials</p>

<p>
[quote]
HYPSM don't care if you want to go there or not. They don't care if you've researched their campus culture or anything else. With 80% yield, they don't need to care.

[/quote]
This advice, by contrast, is accurate. Again, from the Stanford FAQ:</p>

<p>Contacting the Admission Office is neither a requirement nor an advantage in our admission process. We offer campus tours and information sessions to provide you with the information you need to make an informed college choice, not to evaluate you. And we welcome calls and emails for the same reason. Please do not feel compelled to contact us to demonstrate your interest in Stanford; we know by the very fact of your applying that you are seriously interested in Stanford. We don’t keep records of prospective student contacts with our office.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Most importantly remember that none of the people here, including myself, are admissions officers or college advisors.

[/quote]
Actually, some are. :)</p>

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<p>Or to paraphrase Stanford:</p>

<p>"We're too big to care..."</p>

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<p>Most schools? Standford is only one example. </p>

<p>If you are indeed an admissions officer or college advisor you represent only a single opinion.</p>