We're picking up the pieces, but what went wrong?

Parents Forum
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<p>andi - I wrote this post right after you started this thread, but our internet died due to basement flooding :(. So I will post it now, even though much of what I wrote has already been said more eloquently by others:</p>

<p>I am very sorry that your son is suffering these disappointments in his admissions decisions. From what you have told us about him, he sounds like a student who would definitely be an asset to any of the colleges he applied to. I am far from the greatest expert on this board, but I will offer you my thoughts on "what went wrong" or what you might have done differently. I am sort of a worrier/pessimist, so, for both of my kids, I insisted that they find a safety school (meaning one for which their grades and scores would be far, far above the starndards for that college). In our case, unlike yours, my worry wasn't that SO MANY kids were applying to great schools (like at your high school), but that so few apply to competitive colleges that the colleges would view a student from our h.s. negatively, as the school would be anunknown to them. Also, guidance is of no help in "guiding" or writing targeted recommendations at our school.</p>

<p>My son was the same type of student as your son (1st in the class, 1590 SATs, and perfect SAT 2s, much recognition for academic and non-academic pursuits) and his safety was our state university, Penn State (which has rolling admissions). We knew that even if he were denied admissions to the Honors College there, he was into the school. For my daughter (this year), it was more difficult as she had no interest in a school as large as Penn State and it would not have been a good choice for her interests in any case . She is also a very good student, but not the type who could aspire to the very top ranked colleges (high 1300's SATs, top 2% of class, much extracurricular involvement). For her, the University of Vermont would have been her safety (if she had not been admitted ED to her first choice school), as we visited and liked it and it had the academic programs she was looking for. </p>

<p>Overall, it seems CC board from reading the that many students were pleasantly surprised to be admitted to schools which were reaches for them, but at least as many others were unpleasantly surprised to be denied at schools for which they thought they easily qualified. One thing is for sure - it is a crazy and unpredictable process. </p>

<p>On the positive side, I bet your son has a very good to excellent chance of being admitted from the waitlist of one of the schools (maybe with the help of his GC explaining the situation). I have no experience with how waitlists work - is it possible to remain on the waitlist for all three schools? I wish him all the best and hope that things work out for him in a way that will make him happy.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Marite. I've been trying like mad to remember where I read that.</p>

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<p>The Revealed Preference study is highly, highly flawed. It assumes that 1) applicants do not have to make decisions based on finances; and 2) That financial aid applicants, all things being equal, face the same odds as non-financial aid applicants. Both are easily and demonstrably false. (The second point is so obvious as to hardly be worth going into depth about - there are developmental admits, and legacies at prestigious colleges earn more money, right? That's why many folks want to go there!)</p>

<p>This doesn't say that Tufts Syndrome doesn't happen (from little I can tell, it does); only that it doesn't follow from Revealed Preferences.</p>

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<p>Mini, I agree with you as to the study being flawed. I was refering to the background work that lead them to do the study in the first place, "the Princeton Dip".</p>

<p>Andi, sent you a PM. Ignore it. Marite said what I was going to say, said it better and found the reference.</p>

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<p>This is very disappointing. I really really feel for you. However, when I try to pick up the pieces I usually just try to get very logical. Like this:</p>

<p>What happened up to now matters only for three reasons: 1) You have other children to come and need to know how to avoid this in future 2) You need to have a picture to give your son that validates what you know to be true of his abilities 3) You need an explanation that allows you to go on and not leak your emotions into his experience.</p>

<p>Let's just look at 2) and 3). Item 1) would require an actionable, granular explanation and you don't need to solve it now. Explanations for 2) and 3) just need to be true. This process, I have come to believe is not a crapshoot. Not altogether. Not for each participant. However, for any one participant, it may be. Because there is a distribution, and any distribution has outliers. Your son is an outlier. (Outlyer?) Probably what happened to him happened to very few others, very few others with his record. But in this kind of a process, someone is highly likely to be the outlier. Especially with gaming of the system. Really is crappy. Now there's lots of analysis to be done beyond that if you have other kids to follow about what if anything could have been done, but for him, that's all that matters. My guess is that like most statistical outcomes, the only real answer would have been to apply to more schools. Even more top schools. Just more, to try to move out of the outlier category, reduce risk and volatility. But it doesn't matter. It was bad bad bad luck.</p>

<p>Mostly what matters is what to do now. That is, if you can get a clear answer about why it happened, one that you can emotionally commit to, one that removes second-guessing as much as possible, </p>

<p>Start fresh. Start one track to determine where he wants to focus any efforts to de-waitlist. Pick the track based on both where he wants to go and where it is likely, but mostly on where he wants to go. Because you have a fresh slate. He has a year ahead of him. He can go to Scotland. He can do something entirely different. He doesn't have to sub-optimize. So start to plan the year. Just the first 2 months of the year you know will be waitlist pursuit, investigation of other activities, maybe looking at other schools. The big question now is, how to make this next year, in toto, as valuable as possible to him in his life.</p>

<p>I am so sorry. I cannot pretend that this should feel good to you. I do know that it could turn out for the best. A year doing something other than going to school, especially having been in the competitive school with 12 other Merit Scholars admitted to other schools (so difficult) might be just wonderful for him. Getting off a waitlist could be just wonderful.</p>

<p>I think it depends on what you can commit to being OK about, you and him. It is just so wholly unfortunate. FWIW, I am on your side.</p>

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<p>Gap year.</p>

<p>Or, you might want to consider a PG year at a prep school. Different GC, different recs.</p>

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<p>As another person suggested, the General Studies Program at Columbia University may be a wonderful place for the next year. While you do not get regular freshman housing (I believe), you are otherwise in every other way a member of the University. You can be on club sports teams (as my friend's son was) and participate in every other aspect of college life. And with his interest in music, Columbia and New York must be filled with good stuff. Plus he does not have to take a full load if he chooses not to, and therefore can really explore the cultural aspects of New York</p>

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<p>This is an important topic. Has anyone else noticed we have filled four pages in the three and a half hours since andi originally posted?</p>

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<p>Andi:</p>

<p>Another possibility: What about his taking a few courses at the Harvard Extension School? The cost of four courses over the year--$2-3K-- would be far less than what it would be for a semester. He could work part time to earn some money while re-applying to Harvard and some other colleges. He might even be able to get a rec from one of the Harvard profs.</p>

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<p>Thanks Marite, I was wondering if you might have some sort of 'local' ideas since you likely live not too far from us. (judging from reading your past posts) That's another avenue worth exploring. He could take Harvard extension courses, get a job and study music. Sometimes the answers are closer than we think. </p>

<p>Thanks to all of you for your continuing posts. I haven't replied to each of you individually because there are so many suggestions to think about. I'm going to have to re-read this whole thread tomorrow and write notes to myself!!!</p>

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<p>Andi: send me a PM.</p>

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<p>I just thought I'd throw myself into this and make a few comments about gap years. I am currently a high school senior, and was lucky enough (or unlucky, if you will, since I now have to decide...) to be accepted to several schools (granted, I applied to 12, and most were not HYP-caliber), but I will most likely be taking a gap year next year and then enrolling in Fall 06.
From everything I've read and heard, colleges look favorably upon students who take a year off to explore themselves and the world. Students who take time off tend to come back with a better appreciation for their educational opportunities and an understanding of what it's like to not be in school. After all, we've spent the past 14 years in school and are headed for at least another 4! We're 18 years old and after 14 years of classrooms and homework, most of us are ready to cut loose and have some fun...which often results in a freshman year of partying. We're just not at a very good point in our lives for choosing where to spend $200K over the next 4 years. If you don't believe me, here's what the Dean of Admissions at Princeton said (according to "Taking Time Off" by Colin Hall and Ron Lieber), "if we wanted to pick precisely the wrong age to admit students to college, we have it down pat!"
Not to say that your son isn't ready for college, because it sounds like he's one of the few level-headed kids getting geared up for next year, but I really think a gap year can do wonders for people our age. There are so many possibilities - from volunteering in an orphanage in Nepal to getting an internship with a communications firm to traveling around the world to getting a job locally and saving up for college.</p>

<p>I'd reccommend the following books (you can get them at <a href="http://www.amazon.com)/sites%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.amazon.com)/sites&lt;/a> for ideas and help:</p>

<p>"Taking Time Off" by Colin Hall and Ron Lieber (helpful for ideas about a lot of different types of gap years, why people took them, what they did when they got back, etc.)
"The Gap Year Book" from Lonely Planet (written from a British perspective, but great for planning a gap year abroad)
"Taking a Gap Year" by Susan Griffith (I haven't read this one)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.gapyear.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gapyear.com&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.yearoutgroup.org/students.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yearoutgroup.org/students.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, and good luck!!</p>

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<p>Do let him think about something non-local. My D's best experience was 4 weeks in Detroit(!) at a ballet intensive. Just seeing another part of the world that was completely different from our upscale old hippie college town world really helped her grow. Let him go beyond the Boston area. Let him make further progress on developing his individual voice - that can only stand him in good stead for college and for life. And since you might be waiting for a de-waitlist before you send him off to his gap year, you have time to investigate. If you want any help from the other side of the country to investigate programs or living spaces please let me know and I will see if I can help.</p>

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<p>70reve4rotag thanks so much for taking the time to post. I appreciate your feedback and I hope you have a great gap year.</p>

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<p>OK, since I started this thread a few hours ago I have just had more perplexing information. My s is in an honors madrigal singing group at hs which has won top state awards many times and been featured on a cd - best of US High School a cappella. One of the female singers in the group was just accepted at Yale, where s was deferred EA and then rejected. She has slightly better GPA but not as difficult a course load. She has starred in the hs musical one year but definitely does not have national or even state awards. (take note of this Northstarmom) This just further makes me wonder what the heck went wrong.</p>

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<p>Andi,
My heart goes out to you...I think you are living one of motherhood's big challenges-- how to help a child through a wholely undeserved and unexpected sadness. You have received a range of excellent advice...I just want to add a few things.</p>

<p>We knew a boy 6 years ago who was class president, national merit, top 5%, very unusual background...etc..who did not get into any of the US schools he applied to(mediocre counseling combined with administrative mishap?-still controversial). He took one year at the University of London and then reapplied in the US- to schools he had not applied to the first go around. He graduated from Swarthmore last year having been very successful. There are 'happy outcome' stories abounding, and it is helpful to stay optimistic...so only listen to those!!</p>

<p>If your son liked Oberlin, if he decides he wants to go to a US school this next year and if your counselor can be of any help...might I suggest you call Lawrence...they might make a spot for an outstanding candidate and it is a great little underrated school- strong academics and a fine conservatory..it might not have been on your radar initially--but if your son desperately wants US next year (and I am not sure he does, I am only throwing out a possibility)...might be worth a call. </p>

<p>Finally, I almost hate to say it, I think that your son's recommendation letters should be reviewed. Might there have been a discrepancy here that would account for your plight? Everything else, wishy washy enthusiasm for one school, fabulous grades etc-- is a "known"....only the recommendations are an "unknown." If the GC hasn't done so, I might ask them to read them, and then help to understand if some casual comment might not have been another factor to help explain this situation..</p>

<p>Good luck with all this, hopefully a year from now your news will be considerably different.</p>

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<p>Just a word of caution again. Edinburgh is wonderful but the tuition is
US$22,298.00 and Board is US$7526.00. The total would be US$29, 824 per year for three years. </p>

<p>Plus spending money, plus airfare. Still a a bargain by US standards....</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/finance_costs/ugoverseasfees.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/finance_costs/ugoverseasfees.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The tuition for EU residents is much much lower.</p>

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<p>Andi, Take a look at the many schools that are full rides for NMS kids. I think most of them would accept him even on a late application. There is always a transfer in the future if he isn't happy there.</p>

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<p>" One of the female singers in the group was just accepted at Yale, where s was deferred EA and then rejected. She has slightly better GPA but not as difficult a course load. She has starred in the hs musical one year but definitely does not have national or even state awards. "</p>

<p>It could be legacy, excellent essay (or an essay highlighting something unusual that the adcom just happened to be interested in or that the college happened to need), extraordinary interview, excellent recommendations, a need for female madrigal singers, a documented interest in a major that the college needs students for. One never knows.</p>

<p>There always are factors that one might not know about or that may be important to the college, but that outsiders wouldn't realize are important. Her being female, for instance, might be important. </p>

<p>I can't emphasize more that any student isn't competing just against their classmates, but against students in a very large region, even throughout the world. The fact that adcoms are selecting a class, not just the best of the individual students, is also important and for that reason, it can be very hard to figure out how individual students will do in admissions.</p>

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<p>Andi - Everyone needs to keep in mind that college admission is just another step in a person's life, not a defining experience. But that can be pretty hard to see today. However, most of us can think of peers for whom Ivy League admission represented their peak accomplishment; and others who went to Montclair State and then on to great personal and financial successes.</p>

<p>Given the amazing quality of the applicants at all the schools in question, the only worthwhile second-guessing would involve what the waitlist schools need to hear from your S to admit him, should they go to their waitlists. Following a couple of other posters, I would concentrate on Swarthmore and Oberlin.</p>

<p>The only other suggestion I would have would be to investigate a late application to Lawrence University. Superb music and physics there, and solid departments across the board. In past years they have taken late apps, though with increased application numbers that may no longer be the case.</p>