<p>I'm a little confused about how the academic reputations of these three schools compare. Are Wesleyan and Carleton comparable, and Oberlin a little below? Are Wesleyan and Oberlin comparable, and Carleton a little above? Could someone straighten me out?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>common "wisdom" would probably say Carleton then Wesleyan then Oberlin, but the differences are so slight as to be negligible in choosing among them. It would make more sense to look at fit, programs offered, location, etc. rather than academic reputations. By all reports, they are all superb schools academically.</p>
<p>i'd say: clear first: wesleyan, slightly below thatis carleton, then slightly below that is oberlin</p>
<p>How about the same question, but limiting it to creative writing programs? Also, would one favor another when speaking of a prospective student who steers away from traditional/structured course requirements?</p>
<p>I would say Carleton is slightly above Wesleyan which is slightly above Oberlin. (though I am slightly biased in that I attending Carleton right now. I did choose Carleton over Oberlin. (I did not like the atmosphere at Wesleyan so I chose not to apply)</p>
<p>Honestly though the difference in academics is not much. You will get a great education at any of the three schools. My advice would be to choose the school you like the best and feel is right for you. Find a place where you believe you will find happiness in the next 4 years coughcarletoncough.</p>
<p>To tell you the truth, I can't remember the last person I met who turned one down for the other; I really don't think they overlap all that much. Carleton is one of those colleges-- like Wellesley-- to which the USNews rankings seem to award bonus points for "best of breed", in Carleton's case, the best of the midwestern LACs. A generation ago, that designation would have gone to Oberlin, no question.</p>
<p>OTOH, I've seen more than one Revealed Preference survey put Wesleyan ahead of Carleton by many lengths. As the others have said, the differences between them academicaly and prestige-wise are probably infintesimal.</p>
<p>My D preferred Oberlin to Carleton, for her own reasons, and in fact went there; did not like the atmosphere at Wesleyan so chose not to apply.</p>
<p>The current published rankings are readily available. Generic rankings aside,
All of these are fine schools. I would think there is a great deal of applicant overlap, actually; all three were certainly on my daughter's short list. Suggest looking very closely at overall fit and emphasis on specific departments of interest; that's what she did.</p>
<p>She was very keen on steering away from traditional/structured course requirements in her search, so I'm pretty sure Oberlin's requirements are not excessive. I can't comment on the other two schools.</p>
<p>The creative writing program at Oberlin is one of the most highly regarded programs at the college, I believe. I don't know how creative writing is regarded at Wesleyan or Carleton.</p>
<p>Carleton seemed to be truly exceptional in the physical sciences, whereas Oberlin, while also having strong sciences, seemed somewhat more artsy overall. With tremendous overlap of course.</p>
<p>Carleton appeared to have a higher concentration of students from the Midwest and particularly Minnesota/Wisconsin, and a relatively high proportion of public school grads. It also seemed to have an unusually large proportion of students who play intramural sports. The other two schools are not warm, but that part of Minnesota is typically one of the colder places, for longer, in the lower 48 states. You can look up the average weather, over time, someplace and see for yourself; I found it in an old Places Rated Almanac. I believe someone on CC said it's been relatively mild there in the last couple years; fortunately for them.</p>
<p>Oberlin has a larger proportion of students from both coasts,and I believe the campus vibe reflects this. The student body might be more overtly politically oriented on average than at Carleton, though I do not know this for a fact.</p>
<p>The conservatory of music at Oberlin is of course a very big deal there, and plays a significant role in campus life. There is music there constantly.My daughter's getting free instrument lessons from a conservatory student who she says is the best teacher she's ever had. That was a nice, unexpected plus. On the other hand, her tour guide at Carleton said he chose Carleton over Oberlin because he wanted to have lots of performance opportunities himself and didn't want to compete with conservatory students; so it can perhaps cut both ways.</p>
<p>Don't pick among these schools by academic reputation, as they are for all intents and purposes equal. You could give a slight nod to Carleton for the sciences, and certainly one to Oberlin for music, but that's about it.</p>
<p>Regarding the Revealed Preference surveys, I would guess that the indicated results are due to an overabundance of East coast applicants who think that the midwest is someplace near Mars, except with a somewhat more foreign population.</p>
<p>Consequently I wouldn't take too much stock in this "popularity contest", myself; it need not reflect the actual quality of what's there.</p>
<p>Oberlin is clearly the strongest of the three in creative writing. And as an academic, I would say that Oberlin is absolutely as prestigious as the other two in terms of graduate school admissions, etc. The fact that it rates slightly lower in the USNews rankings is insignificant, in my opinion.</p>
<p>monydad, could you clarify what you mean by your D not liking the "atmosphere" at Wesleyan? (It's a reach school that my own D might be interested in.)</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with the atmosphere at Wesleyan to me; she just didn't like it,for very superficial reasons IMO. When you're screening colleges you are forced sometimes to make cuts based on initial impressions that are not truly representative of the place. Such is the nature of the process. YOu should go and decide for yourself.</p>
<p>What she didn't like was:
- a campus that she didn't find very impressive.
-a town that she didn't like on first impression
-a relatively isolated location (but then other places she applied to ultimately were not exactly in midtown Manhattan; she made this cut very early in the process)
- a dorm that looked like a Motel 6, only much shabbier
- students that appeared to be trying very hard to look hippiesh and cool (although again, I'm not sure how much different her chosen environment ultimately is)
- a freshman tour guide who didn't know anything about the school and seemed quite smug and "cool" along the lines I described above.
- some campus customs, like chalk-writing immature phrases on the walls or something, that she thought was rather retarded.
- At the time, Wesleyan was much further from us than these other schools. Ironically we are moving and now it would be the closest by far. Though Oberlin is still a managable drive from the East coast, which is in part why it gets so much of its student body from there.</p>
<p>One thing I noticed, she was IMO overly influenced by her impression of the few people she met (tour guides, students, admissions people) during the whole process, at every school. If she had by chance run into different individuals at the same schools during her visits her impressions of each place might have been somewhat different.</p>
<p>Ultimately she was very impressed with Oberlin after her overnight there, and all the other colleges that she found to be in a similar vein dropped down after that.</p>
<p>But this is a very personal, individual thing, based on first impressions. Don't go solely by her experience. Many other people would visit one of the other schools and drop them off, for equally superficial and maybe ultimately incorrect reasons.</p>
<p>Maybe wbm777 can share the reasons for his identical conclusion?</p>
<p>My son chose oberlin over carlton and wesleyan, though I would have been happy to see him at any of the three. Though the campus vibes are different, I think from an educational standpoint, all are quite similar.</p>
<p>why did my chose oberlin over the other two? he felt carlton was a little too remote and decided "too rich white kid" for him on the basis of a campus tour. he didn't like wesleyan because he thought two of the kids who were there from our high school were too "self-consciously PC." he liked oberlin because he felt there was a lot going on on campus, but frankly, I think it's because when he visited, he stayed with a friend from camp and so it just felt right.</p>
<p>I say all this to show how quickly kids jump to conclusions about schools on the basis of limited information.</p>
<p>How do the reps of these schools compare to Smith? Better?</p>
<p>Trying to compare Smith directly to three co-ed colleges is a little difficult; the academics are comparable, but again, I've met very few people who've applied to both and they, of course, chose Wes.</p>
<p>Well, SATs for Smith are midrange 1100s-1300s so I'd hazard a guess they attract different caliber students... I was just checking. I do think Wes sounds like it would be a great fit for me! And it's only 2.5 hrs from Smith so I can visit my friends! I hope I get in transfer:)</p>
<p>Besides the gender thing, the biggest difference between the student bodies at the four schools (which translates directly down to the SAT averages) is that many of the students at Smith come from economically poorer backgrounds, which makes the student body much more diverse. 28% of the student body is Pell Grants (incomes below $40k)' at Oberlin it is 16.7%; Wesleyan 11%; Carleton 10.8%.) You'd find similar in percentages of students on financial aid: 53% of students at Wesleyan pay the full freight. The College Board estimates that, statitiscally, a 1400 SAT score is simply a 1200 plus $100,000 in family income. (For what it's worth, in the past three years, Smith students have been awarded more Fulbrights than the other three schools combined, so I doubt it suffers in academic reputation, regardless of entering SAT scores.)</p>
<p>("I've met very few people who've applied to both and they, of course, chose Wes." Tee-hee - my d. didn't apply to Wes, was recruited and accepted at Williams, and chose Smith - quite happy there. But I happen to think Wes is WONDERFUL, as are the other two, though I'm not sure I could deal with all the palm trees at Carleton. ;))</p>
<p>Oh my god, I think I might know your daughter! By any chance, does she have long, curly brown hair, she took Advanced General Chem and Organic Chemistry last year, and she once fell off a cliff?...</p>
<p>And by the way, I do see the point about the financial situation. I don't think that's the only factor, but I can imagine it's a factor. And a lot of my friends there were wonderful, intelligent women but didn't have the best SATs. They were refugees or immigrants and English was their 2nd or 3rd language.</p>
<p>I will add that Fulbrights are actually considered one of the "quirky" scholarships -and not very related to academic rep, but perhaps is related to creativity.</p>
<p>Nope. My d, is a music composition major, with a minor in Italian, and is usually to be found in the music library (though she's loved the sciences she has taken), or singing or playing something or other. The diversity she found there (relative to other LACs) was one of its great selling points (plus the 5-College Opera Consortium, the STRIDE program, Praxis, and the Smith program in Florence.)</p>
<p>Has Chicago really turned out not to be to your liking?</p>
<p>For creative writing - Oberlin</p>