Wesleyan VS. Colgate

Colleges and Universities A-Z Colgate University
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<p>Road, I think you have been very evenhanded in your discussion and even praise of Colgate and understand you are trying to back up what you feel to be more accurate views. </p>

<p>There is cetainly a place for those sorts of statistics and speculations as to why a school will offer free apps or allow students to choose which standardized test to submit. It would be interesting in a Journal of Higher Education or a discussion of these points in another ~ general ~forum. But I don't really see how most of these statistical arguments and comparisons help students trying to decide between colleges. In this context it begins to seem like bashing one school or boosting another. (To be fair one sees them not just here or in your posts). </p>

<p>The truth is, and I think you'd agree: we're really talking apples and apples here.</p>

<p>Some people like Granny Smith, others Golden Delicious or Fuji. One person may like the good old American standby Macintosh. Some people find them more attractive when they're big and shiny and others prefer tiny Lady apples or the gnarly organic kind. And there are lots more varietals than you'll see at the chain supermarket.</p>

<p>In the end though, it won't matter what it looked like on the grocer's shelf or whether Gourmet Magazine or your friends said one was better than the other. Sure, some varieties are better for making cider and others for baking (which is easy enough to find out). And some are cheap enough or you may be lucky enough to find one at a price where you might also be able to afford cheese and crackers on the side.</p>

<p>What matters in the end though is whether you enjoyed it and the nutrients you were able to extract. When I kid says X school or Y school, that's the sort of things they need to hear about. Those other tangents rarely help.</p>

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<p>Um, thanks?</p>

<p>I'm even more confused now :-P</p>

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<p>{Some people find them more attractive when they're big and shiny and others prefer tiny Lady apples or the gnarly organic kind. And there are lots more varietals than you'll see at the chain supermarket.we're really talking apples and apples here.}}</p>

<p>Are you an apple farmer by any chance? Kidding.:)</p>

<p>I agree with you. I would have been proud if my first had decided on either college to attend. I've lived with Wes this Wes that since birth; my father in an alumni. Colgate was on my radar screen since I was 16 or so. </p>

<p>Many of my friends attended Colgate and I visited often when I was in college (the girls were prettier) and applied to Colgate myself (was accepted); although it was much easier to be accepted a couple + of decades ago.</p>

<p>Forget about the SAT argument. Your point is well taken. Trying to sort out the facts, motives and results of any colleges statically manipulated numbers is pure speculation, and without fail some college will appear to be slighted. </p>

<p>My SAT rant ( to put in mildly) was simply a sidebar to questioning the false statements regarding the fact Colgate had the best bio dept in the country, was in the top 10 for econ and had alums regularly accepted to the top med etc., schools in the country.,</p>

<p>My friend, ridethecliche, asked collegeparent for the link regarding the fact Colgate was in the top ten for econ and was ignored. Then when CP did post a study, it was a worthless, decade old, totally fact challenged pos that had nothing to do with ranking bio or econ programs. I’m sorry, forgetting for a moment ride is a friend, any student has the right to see the study to support that idiotic statement and not be mislead by wishful thinking at best, fabricated facts at the worst.</p>

<p>If you were to call the admission office and talk to Gary, I’m sure he would abhor the fact false claims were being presented on CC.</p>

<p>fwiw- I realize I can come across as a bit pompous at times, however; if you ask ridethecliche, he would hopefully inform you I actually do know what I'm speaking about--most of the time :)</p>

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<p><em>cough cough</em>
Alright, Point granted bucko.</p>

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<p>I'd agree - call the Colgate admissions office and ask them for the stats - I'm sure they can provide the medical school stats or put you in touch with the relevant advisor, and they'll give you the straight data.</p>

<p>(I still think that there aren't very many kids with high SAT I's, and "low" SAT II's - at Colgate or elsewhere; vice versa far more likely, but this isn't a discussion that's at all helpful to the OP)</p>

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<p>I still think that there aren't very many kids with high SAT I's, and "low" SAT II's -}}</p>

<p>Interesting. A kid scores low on the much easier SAT math but scores much higher on the more difficult SAT subject math or physics. </p>

<p>IB bio students have difficulty on the SAT bio subject b/c the material on the test isn't covered until the sr in the IB program but are far further ahead when they enter college and are regularly moved to an upper level bio course, even though they scored miserably on the SAT bio subject exam, But whatever, you're correct, isn't much help to the OP</p>

1 Like
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<p>I did poorly on the bio sat 2, a 690 isn't too good for someone in AP bio, but i studied myself because the material still hadn't been covered.
Literature was even worse, i got like a 540 (highest haha) because I hate multiple choice things on books and i'd much rather write an essay explaining my way of thinking.
Standardized tests suck anyway, but they're needed for comparison i guess. The US isn't ready for Country-wide proficiency tests since too many kids would fail those miserably. I'm referring to something in the style of the pre-board/Board exams in India which are THE deciding factor for college entrance in India.</p>

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<p>{{the Literature was even worse, i got like a 540 }}</p>

<p>An if I remember correctly you had a 700++ something on the standard SAT CR part..Yup, everyone scores higher on their SAT subject test than the regular SAT
Jrpar, don’t get you pants all bunched up. I’m just fooling with you. You truly seem like a nice guy. Where is your son planning on attending college.</p>

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<p>I'd agree - call the Colgate admissions office and ask them for the stats - I'm sure they can provide the medical school stats}}</p>

<p>Be sure to ask not only how many applied, were accepted and where, but also how many were admitted after taking a gap year or two.The acceptance rate will be higher if the college includes those who took an additional course post graduation and then applied and was accepted. They count as being accepted in the stats as much as those who were fortunate enough to make it in their sr yr. Actually they deserve even more credit, imo, b/c they didn’t give up and did what it took to get into a med college even after working for 4 years already</p>

<p>One reason some students have to take an extra course to two after graduation is b/c they decided to apply to med school in the jr yr etc and couldn’t get all the perquisites fulfilled in time, nor did they know enough to do well on the MCAT’s… If you plan on studying abroad then you <em>really</em> need to start planning that your freshmen year. The jr. year is when students study unbelievably long hours preparing for the MCAT and taking the exam. Going to Europe takes time away from that endeavor and needs to be considered.</p>

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<p>Naa, I got a 670 standard CR, 760 on standard math, and the 720 was for writing.
<em>I pmed you again btw</em></p>

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<p>I pmed you again btw*</p>

<p>"The coughing was for the uninformed party"</p>

<p>This one?</p>

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<p>yeahh. I'm going to bed. I need to wake up in an hour and a half for my colgate visit :-)
And yeah the cough didn't apply to you, so sorry to dissapoint.</p>

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<p>RLT, my son is a freshman at Colgate (and I'm female by the way). </p>

<p>I've heard Gary Ross talk about why Colgate no longer requires the SAT II's. Absolutely it resulted in a increase in applications (the snowy football game featured in SI helped on that front too), including from those outside of Colgate's traditional application base, both geographically and in terms of economic diversity. I don't think it was a ploy to get more "wealthy" applicants. </p>

<p>I don't know much about the IB program - I don't know any schools around here with the IB program. Doing away with the SAT II's is a good thing for IB kids if they were in effect penalized by this test.</p>

<p>The kids from the private college prep schools/wealth public school districts in my area have really high SAT II's. And yeah, they even do better on the "harder" SAT II in math - my own kid for one; that curve on the IIC is awesome - and they're advised to take the IIC instead of the IC for just that reason. The kids in his calculus class all got 750+ on the SAT IIC. A lot of kids take the SAT II in Bio or Chem in the 9th or 10th grade and get 700+. My point is that it's another unfair advantage for kids from that slice of life. </p>

<p>Add on top of that there doesn't seem to be any correlation between a high SAT II score and doing well in a related college level class, and it's just not a very helpful test.</p>

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<p>{{I don't think it was a ploy to get more "wealthy" applicants.}</p>

<p>That’s the trouble with message boards; you can’t really express the true way you actually mean something. I was kidding. I meant it tongue-in- cheek. </p>

<p>I'm very regretful if my comment appeared to be nefarious in its intention </p>

<p>I like Gary very much and have a great deal of respect for him and would never impugn his motives.
I’m sorry for what appeared to be a slight. No excuse :(</p>

<p>I spent many enjoyable weekends at Colgate visiting friends (both genders :) a number of years ago. The college was as wonderful then and it is now. If my child chooses to attend Colgate, I'll gladly write the 44k check---well gladly might be an overstatement. :)</p>

<p>{{I don't know much about the IB program - I don't know any schools around here with the IB program}}}</p>

<p>I don’t live there but the entire state of Florida is IB</p>

<p>{{and they're advised to take the IIC instead of the IC for just that reason. The kids in his calculus class all got 750+ on the SAT IIC.}}</p>

<p>Same with our kids. But you’re absolutely correct; the kids from the preps and wealthy burbs do have an unfair advantage. Almost all of my daughter’s friends (her included) took the prep course. They also had the advantage of superb teachers who knew how to teach what was going to be on the SAT subject tests. Almost everyone in her Calc class scored much above 725 on the 11C. </p>

<p>{Add on top of that there doesn't seem to be any correlation between a high SAT II score and doing well in a related college level class, and it's just not a very helpful test}}</p>

<p>This has been a subject of much disagreement-- Harvard, Princeton, Midd, Cornell, Dartmouth, and many other colleges believe otherwise. I dunno, myself. I go back and forth on the issue. BTW-- As an avocation, I work in ED and the IB program, not that that makes me an expert on anything</p>

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<p>you've spewed this inaccuracy elsewhere, and i've corrected it there. colgate is 44% on aid. middlebury and williams are 42%. washington and lee is 31%. for someone so hell bent on facts, get yours straight. go to usnews and look it up.</p>

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<p>again, your facts are horrible. the application has been free online since the first year of online applications, which is at least five. in colgates view the sat subject tests are not needed with the new sat. big whoop.</p>

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<p>Actually Lafayette doesn't require any SAT 2's either, and they're 27th, i'm not sure if Bucknell does either and they're up there too.</p>

<p>I think this thread is pretty much dead anyway, as i've decided where i'm headed this fall.
I'll be at Wesleyan for the Class of 2010 (and maybe 2011 for masters haha).</p>

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<p>Given that you have only four posts so far and all of them are from today and in this forum, it would seem that any *corrections * you made elsewhere were under another name. </p>

<p>How come?</p>

<p>And why are you posts today so needlessly incendiary?</p>

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<p>Someone's in a whiny mood, it's ok buddy it'll pass.
Let the 4 post poster be, everyone starts out as a noob :-P</p>

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<p>you've spewed this inaccuracy elsewhere, and i've corrected it there. colgate is 44% on aid]]</p>

<p>Do the math. You're wrong. fwiw- The fact Colgate is horroble on aid doesn't change the fact it's a great college..albiet a cheap one :)</p>

<pre><code>Colgate--Full-time freshman enrollment: 729
Number who applied for need-based aid: 272
Number who were judged to have need: 219
Number who were offered aid: 219
Number who had full need met: 219
</code></pre>

<p><a href="http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=1314&profileId=2%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=1314&profileId=2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>,[[ get yours straight. go to usnews and look it up.]]</p>

<p>Where does US News publish aid stats? They don't :)</p>