Wesleyan VS. Colgate

Colleges and Universities A-Z Colgate University
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<p>view the sat subject tests are not needed with the new sat. big whoop.]]</p>

<p>The new SAT isn't <em>new</em>-LOL...All collegeboard did was add a writing componant</p>

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<p>i'll address this in the other thread.</p>

<p>i have no other name, and i am not whiny or incendiary. i am just the truth. sometimes it hurts.</p>

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<p>Yeah, it hurts to get slapped in the face by the 'real' truth. You're a fake :-)</p>

<p>I'm actually still undecided about college kinda, yucky parents and finaid guilt trips. Whoop de frikkin doo...</p>

<p>The 'New' SAT just has the SAT 2 writing part in it just about, slightly modified albeit. It's still no ACT, with the science and other sections.</p>

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<p>like i did not know that? here's a hint: besides the sat ii writing, the other subject tests really don't matter. they aren't used in rankings like usnews. with the writing rolled into the NEW sat, sat ii's are pretty useless when you consider that without a good sat, sat ii's aren't going to get you in</p>

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<p>Man you really are an ignoramus aren't you...
If they 'don't matter', then why do colleges even bother to require them?
I'm pretty sure that ETS doesn't give money to the schools that require them.
And if they 'don't matter' then why are they used for placement in colleges.
You seem to think that if something isn't being considered by USNEWS then it doesn't matter. That logic is completely flawed...</p>

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<p>it's not flawed. it's the truth.</p>

<p>colleges require lots of things to base a decision on. as i am sure you are aware, there is a wide range of things that one college wants that the others don't.</p>

<p>the requirements that matter are sat i's and gpa. everything else is window dressing.</p>

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<p>Ceterus Paribus, SAT 2's are important...
You just proved how little you know. USNEWS is not and should never be the holy grail of college decision making, and you just made it out to be just that.</p>

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<p>again, you're searching and reading into more than is there. i'm not talking about college decision making from the applicants point of view. far from.</p>

<p>i'm talking about the college's decision making on the applicant. sat i's and gpa/class rank. that's what's important at top schools because that's what gets reported and ranked and that's what 'prestige' is built on. without a special hook, you could be the nicest, smartest, best looking go-getter out there, but if you have sub scores and/or grades, you're not getting in.</p>

<p>do you think wesleyan accepted you for reasons beside the sat i and gpa? the recommendations and essay are there to see if there are any red flags. no one gets admitted based on the strength of their sat ii's, essay or recommendation if their scores and grades aren't in the ball park. and that's the way that it is because of usnews. frankly, it is the holy grail of perceived college prestige.</p>

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<p>The fact that I got accepted into the University Scholars Program at wesleyan does make me think that I was accepted for reasons beyond the SAT 1 and GPA.</p>

<p>My SAT 1's were a 1430/2150. 760 math, 670 verbal, 720 writing for highest overall. If I'm not mistaken, last years MEDIAN SAT at Wesleyan was a 1430. Clearly, there's something else going on here...</p>

<p>You forget that LAC's on average, tend to do things differently, this is especially true as far as US news goes as there are differences.</p>

<p>I have a friend who got into middlebury and I think he barely broke 1200 (if even) on the old sat's and his grades were not spectacular...
He got into University of Chicago, Wes, Middlebury, etc without a superb GPA and a shockingly high SAT score. Recs and essays DO matter, more so than as Red Flags.</p>

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<p>who does he know or what sport does he play? those types get in, but with a hook. it's not his essay that made the difference.</p>

<p>and if you want to open up a pc can of worms, in either case is the student not white?</p>

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<p>"no, nothing else is going on here. you had the median scores to be accepted, so you were. extra distinctions such as a scholars program are beside the point. if you had 1300 sat i's and 1430 sat ii's, you would not have been accepted."</p>

<p>I refuse to believe that...
Schools know that SAT 2's are better indicators of future performance than SAT 1's are. It's easy to be 'coached' for 1's, but you need to know stuff for 2's. You need to give adcoms a little bit more credit. </p>

<p>I'm a first gen asian in the states (Asian aka it's harder for me to get in since i compete against my race, which has higher average stats for the students who apply to the 'top' schools).
My friend plays no sports, neither do I.</p>

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<p>Your comment that people get accepted because they're at or above the median SAT and that essays, recs, ECs, other are not important is so far off, it's comical. Haven't you ever heard of the concept of too many qualified candidates for the number spots available. At Harvard, there are 1,000 more candidates with perfect 1600's than accepted spots, yet Harvard's mean SAT is only ~ 1490, so clearly just as many people are getting in that much below the mean. On a lower level, at Dartmouth, there are more people with either an 800M or 800V than there are accepted students. Even at the level of Wesleyan and Colgate, they easily could get a class with a fair amount higher SAT, if that was their primary concern. USN&WR doesn't use SAT II's not out of unimportance, but because only a handful of colleges require; so making comparisons would be impossible. </p>

<p>You're having a problem with cause and effect here. Colleges aren't focused on these stats because of USW&WR, but the other way around. Colleges were having no problem figuring out how to accept applicants 25 years ago when there were no USN&WR rankings. The vast majority of applicants at these top 40 schools have SATs and ranks "in the ballpark". Unless they all want class sizes 3x what they are, something else has not be used to differentiate; otherwise, a computer could be used to determine who is accepted and there would be no need for a large admissions staff. At a certain level, which is fairly below the mean, I think ECs, recs & essays are more important because it's the way to separate otherwise similar candidates. How else do you think a median is established? From personal experience, I was rejected at two schools and W/L at two more where I was a fair amount above all four in SAT avgs and above the top 75% in three cases and also in the top 1% class rank-wise. I think they do a pretty good job, seeing the # of people graduating Magna Cum Laude who were way below the bottom 25% SAT-wise, while seeing a similar # way above SAT avg graduating below a 3.0 GPA.</p>

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<p>Gellino! You're my heroo!!! Hahaha.</p>

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<p>at best coaching can get you 100 extra points. depending on what geographic location and school group you're coming from, it's pretty much expected that you've been coached.</p>

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<p>without knowing the specific situation, it's hard to speculate. but i pretty much gaurantee there is a hook there.</p>

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<p>funny, i'm not laughing. my point is that you become acceptable with sat i's and gpa, not with sat ii's. sat ii's, essays, recs, etc. are window dressing. you don't become acceptable because of sat ii's, and if you are qualified, using the sat ii writing (which colgate is still doing) along with the other window dressing will make the difference. not your sat ii math ic score. it's going to come down to how you fit within the class. if a school can discern your straight a's in AP math, they don't need/care about your sat ii's.</p>

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<p>of course, they have a hook. ever heard of football and ice hockey?</p>

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<p>they're not? why have acceptance rates gone down and scores gone up across the board in those 25 years? it's a response to rankings.</p>

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<p>sure, the window dressing but more importantly the priorities of the institution. are you ed? are you non-white? do you need money? do you play sports? are you from idaho? are you a male or female (because many schools want a 50/50 balance even though the apps don't come in that way) etc. the vast majority of decisions are easy. the rest is filling out the class based on institutional needs, not what someone brings to the table.</p>

<p>i don't mean to sound rude, just to the point. of course there are unique cases, i speak in general terms.</p>

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<p>"The vast majority of decisions are easy?" Are you kidding me? Have you ever read accounts of admissions decisions debates? </p>

<p>At a place like Harvard, sports and any other hooks are not bringing down the avg SAT by that much. </p>

<p>A couple schools have been renowned for playing to the rankings in their admissions policies (WUSTL & Tufts) from what I have read, but even there it was with wait-listing people to protect admit and yield rates, not the criteria by which candidates were judged in the first place.</p>

<p>Also, test scores and SATs have not been going up for the last 25 years. At Colgate, I know there was close to a ten year period from late 80's to late 90's where the SATs declined ~ 60 points and acceptance rates were going up. The scores and acceptance rates have really only improved significantly for the top 50 schools in the last five years and it's not in response to USN&WR, but to changing demographics and the fact that there are so many more college age applicants and the colleges aren't increasing their enrollment at all. Look at this study that was conducted six years ago and notice how dis-similar the admit rates and avg SATs are to current numbers and this was done 16 years after USNWR started with their rankings.</p>

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<p>"they're not? why have acceptance rates gone down and scores gone up across the board in those 25 years? it's a response to rankings."</p>

<p>Acceptance rates have gone down partly due to some grade inflation in high schools (part of it), but more due to the attitude that a high school graduate without some sort of degree will not amount to much in the real world. Plus the Asian Invasion (woot!) has helped this too, you don't need rankings to figure out big name/prestigious schools.</p>