<p>Over the past few days, I've noticed, and responeded to, a number of myths that I have heard strewn against Wharton. I've compiled my reponses to these attacks on here; if any current or former Whartonites wish to add or correct anything that I've said, feel free to do so.</p>
<p>Myth #1: If I go to Wharton, I will sacrifice a liberal arts education and I will have little flexibility in changing my career path. </p>
<p>You can do anything you want after Wharton. Whartonites become doctors, Profs (Gene Falk at Princeton) and even Supreme Court justices (Brennan). Remember, business, finance, management skills, and all of the other things you get out of a Wharton education are essential in every field. Penn Med School is the oldest med school in America, and part of the med school HYP (Harvard Hopkins Penn), a few Whartonites end up there and at other top med and law schools every year. You lose nothing by attending Wharton since half of your courses are liberal arts courses, so your son can still get a broad based education and study what he is most interested in. When he graduates, any employer and grad school will want him. Whartonites are at the top of the recruiting pile in Wall Street. </p>
<p>Actually, going to Wharton is beneficial because it allows you to then go on and get a law degree or another degree of your preference outside of business. You already know everything the top MBA students know and your degree is respected as much as an MBA, most Whartonites do not go back to get an MBA because it is useless to them. BUT, if you do go to an MBA program, going to Wharton also allows you to place out of basic courses in an MBA program and lets you take more electives, essentially giving you a super MBA. </p>
<p>No door that is open to a HYPSM kid is closed to a Wharton kid; but if you want to get directly into Private equity or hedge funds, the reverse is not as true since kids with a business background are strongly preferred in such firms due to their size.</p>
<p>Look at this:</p>
<p>As you can see, some Whartonites end up in many varied fields. You can do everything you can do at Yale at Wharton. Wharton does not pigeon hole you, that is a myth. This list, that shows you where Whartonites go right after undergrad, proves that:</p>
<p>GRADUATE SCHOOL RESPONSES
Accounting
London School of Economics, Masters (Law and Accounting)
Accounting/Finance
Indian Institute of Management - Calcutta, MBA (Business)
Business & Public Policy
College of Law, GDL (Law)
Business & Public Policy/History
Tufts University, MA (Economics)
Business & Public Policy/Political Science
Harvard Law School, JD (Law)
Environmental Policy & Management
Georgetown University Law Center, JD (Law)
Finance
Columbia University, JD (Law)
Johann Wolfgang University, MS (Quantitative Economics)
London School of Economics, MSc/PhD (Economic History)
Polimoda, Masters (Fashion Merchandising and Management)
The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania, MBA (Management)
The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania, MBA (Real Estate)
Universidad de Puerto Rico, JD (Law)
University of Minnesota Law School, JD (Law)
Finance/Bioengineering
University of Miami, MD (Medicine)
Finance/Bioengineering/Mathematics
Columbia University, MA (Financial Mathematics)
Finance/Computer Science & Engineering
Harvard University, PhD (Computer Science)
Finance/East Asian Area Studies
University of Chicago, MA (International Relations)
Finance/English
Yale University Law School, JD (Law)
Finance/Materials Science & Engineering
Imperial College London, M.Sc. (Physics)
Finance/Mechanical Engineering & Applied Mechanics
Harvard University, PhD (Mechanical Engineering)
Finance/Statistics
Yale University, MA (Statistics)
Finance/Systems Engineering
Stanford University, MS (Management Science and Engineering)
Individualized Concentration (Wharton)
Yale University, MA (East Asian Studies)
Individualized Concentration (Wharton)/International Studies and Business
London School of Economics and Political Science, MPA (International Development/Economics)
Management
Temple, JD (Law)
Management/Integrated Product Design/Mechanical Engineering & Applied Mechanics
SEAS University of Pennsylvania, MSE (Integrated Product Design)
Management/International Studies and Business
The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania, MBA (Business, Strategic Management)
Operations & Information Management
Boston University, JD (Corporate/IP Law)
Operations & Information Management/Systems Engineering
Stanford University, MS (Computer Science)
Statistics
Emory University School of Medicine, MD (Medicine)
University of Rochester, PhD (Economics)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2009Report.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2009Report.pdf</a></p>
<p>Myth #2: Whartonites only care about their careers, and have little time for intellectual enrichment. (I was accused of this on the Yale board, here is my response):</p>
<p>He said: “Like all Wharton undergrads, you view an education’s purpose by its proclivity to place you in whatever flavor-of-the-moment boutique all your friends are excited about. So, let’s do a little investigation.”</p>
<p>False. The Whartonite you are talking to disproves it. I have a strong interest in philosophy; Penn allows me to pursue my interest in Philosophy with some of the world’s best professors, study alongside brilliant students, and read Plato and Heidegger to my heart’s content. While simultaneously studying topics that I find equally intellectually stimulating - topics like financial theory. I am a utilitarian in the Millhousian stream. I believe that the value of what we learn can only be judged on the outcome that that knowledge has on greater society. If you think about it, we, students at elite institutions, have been endowed with great cognitive abilities. That was no mistake; we have an obligation to use our abilities to enrich society, whether that be in art or finance. Economics tells us that specialization makes for a more efficient market; therefore, you should specialize in a field that you are best in, in order to have the greatest impact on society. So if finance interests you, study that. If it is physics, study that. In my purview, that is the only metric that can be used to decide whether a subject is worth pursuing or not. I also believe that there is nothing inherent about Philosophy that makes it more of an intellectual undertaking than stochastic calculus, for instance.</p>
<p>Wharton allows you to pursue BOTH philosophy, biology, chemistry, or whatever it is that tickles your fancy and broadens your mind (as you put it) and the finance courses, management courses, and other courses that a utilitarian would value. So you get the best of both worlds. The better career options, the efficiency of the degree, and all of these other things are just added benefits. At least 30% of Wharton’s undergraduate class does double majors, even greater numbers minors in something else. Everyone explores a full range of liberal arts topics, whether they double major in them or not. The fact of the matter is, you still get a liberal arts education at Wharton through Penn’s fantastic college (which is ranked right behind Yale on US News let us remember).</p>
<p>Myth #3: Wharton students are cut-throat, you will not enjoy your time there. </p>
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<p>Myth #4: What you learn at Wharton is only applicable to business. </p>
<p>If you do not mind studying business and realize that the skills you learn at Wharton are useful in any career. You could go on to pursue an MD, your business degree will give you the skills necessary to run your private practice, to set it up, and to expand it without spending even more time and money getting an MD and an MBA degree. This is a particularly alluring option considering the stature of Penn Med (top 3 in the world, oldest med school in America). Being a Penn alum will give you a leg up. </p>
<p>A similar argument could be made for law, especially if you would like to enter a field in law that is related to finance or accounting like tax law. Wharton allows you to have a strong grasp in both law and business with two degrees instead of 3. That is two years and hundreds of thousands of dollars saved. If you want to set up your own practice, these skills, like the ability to handle your cash flow well, come in handy. That management course about the 5 styles of leadership will help you run your law firm, or work at a larger law firm and be an effective leader. </p>
<p>Cen Uygur, the founder of The Young Turks show, easily one of the most influential liberal talk shows out there, is a Whartonite. The skills he learned at Wharton are key to his success. He learned how to be a manager, how to market himself, and many other things that make him the man he is today. </p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - TheYoungTurks’s Channel](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/user/theyoungturks?blend=1&ob=4]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/user/theyoungturks?blend=1&ob=4)
[The</a> Young Turks: Cenk: User Profile](<a href=“http://www.theyoungturks.com/user/uid:6]The”>http://www.theyoungturks.com/user/uid:6)</p>
<p>In short: remember, even if you decide to become a chemist when you are in Wharton, the skills you learn will be transferable to your job. You learn how to manage a team, how to set up your own company, how to manage your expenses, and just about everything else under the sun. It is a full blown MBA and has life long importance. </p>
<p>Several Whartonites do pursue these paths every year at top notch universities, (as shown in the link below), so it is a distinct possibility for you to consider.</p>
<p>I expanded on my law example below, perhaps current Whartonites who went into different fields could further expound upon this:</p>
<p>Interested in a career in law: </p>
<p>If you would like to enter a field in law that is related to finance or accounting, like tax law or compliance work, for instance. Wharton allows you to have a strong grasp in both law and business with two degrees instead of 3. That is two years and hundreds of thousands of dollars saved. If you want to set up your own practice, the skills you learn at Wharton, like the ability to handle your cash flow well, come in handy. That management course about the 5 styles of leadership will help you run your law firm, or work at a larger law firm and be an effective leader. You will also have a far more intuitive grasp of the financial industry that your fellow Law School candidates would be unable to compete with. In totality, that would make you very attractive to a law school. </p>
<p>Also, if you have a Wharton undergraduate degree that gives you more flexibility to make the transition into business without wasting two more years and going hundreds of dollars in debt for an MBA. Getting an MBA may not be a necessity for a law school grad to get your middle of the rung finance jobs, but if you want to compete for the top slots, Wharton would give you an advantage. That is, if you decide, like many lawyers do after working for a few years, that you would rather be in finance. </p>
<p>Remember, very very few Whartonites pursue law right out of undergrad, pursuing law would make you unique. </p>
<p>I assume, since you applied to Wharton, you have an interest in business as well. If that is the case, and you feel that if you went into law you would want to deal with something that intersected with the business world, I think you will be well served by Wharton. Lastly, Penn’s one university policy allows you to take classes in any of Penn’s 12 graduate schools. That means that you could easily supplement your Wharton education with a few law school classes on ethics, the legal aspects of finance, or whatever else it is you wanted to take. Now, I’ve written this post making the assumption that you are interested at least studying business. If you told me that you had absolutely no interest in studying or pursuing business, my post would have been different.</p>
<p>Several Whartonites do pursue Law each year at top notch universities, (as shown in the link below), so it is a distinct possibility for you to consider.</p>
<p>London School of Economics, Masters (Law and Accounting)
Harvard Law School, JD (Law)
Yale University Law School, JD (Law)
Columbia University, JD (Law)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2009Report.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2009Report.pdf</a></p>
<p>Myth #5: There is absolutely no competitive advantage when seeking top jobs or on the job if you attend Wharton over HYPSM. So why bother ? </p>
<p>If you want to get the best jobs possible, go to Wharton. Coming out of HYPSM, you will almost certainly be able to get a BB IB, S&T, but more so MBB (consulting) jobs if you have a high GPA and show some basic knowledge of the industry. Obviously, you get all of that at Wharton too, and Wharton places a hell of a lot more kids than HYPSM does into those jobs. Going to Wharton also gives you in-depth knowledge about these different career paths, (far more than you could learn over a summer internship) so you will know exactly what you are getting into. Wharton MBA students who have already gone through the process can also be useful guides and chaperones for you. </p>
<p>However, the cream of the crop at Wharton have options that HYPSM kids don’t (Harvard has more than the rest though), thanks to their in-depth business knowledge. That includes Private Equity (the pay is almost twice that of the jobs mentioned above and is a lot more interesting. Half, or more than half of most firms PE jobs will go to Whartonites - some HYPSM kids do get in right out of undergrad but it is not nearly as common as at Wharton since Whartonites have a much better finance background), VC (which some HYPSM (mostly SM) kids do get into), and Hedge Funds (which fewer HYPSM kids get into (Harvard more than the others, but still less than Wharton). Some firms recruit exclusively at Wharton - like Silver Lake. If you want to have the widest possible set of jobs in the financial industry open to you, go to Wharton. If you want to have the widest set of jobs in all industries open to you, go to Wharton, but double major and get a liberal arts degree from Penn’s college. </p>
<p>The rankings on the street of so-called “target schools” are:</p>
<p>Wharton, then Harvard at the top rung, and the rest of HYPSM follows.</p>
<p>If these schools are so close in your mind, why not just go to the school that has an alumni network in finance that is probably 5 times the size (which is more-or-less true for all of HYPSM, except Harvard)? We have already established that you can get a superb liberal arts education at both institutions. We have also established that, for your chosen career path, Wharton outstrips HYPSM (especially if you count getting a PE, Venture Capital, or a hedge fund gig). Both schools provide for amazing undergraduate experiences. We have also established that going to Wharton means that you do not have to get an MBA, whereas the necessity of one at Columbia is far far more likely, if not almost always necessary. </p>
<p>But Wharton has one advantage that Columbia does not, the largest network on Wall Street. Only Harvard’s rivals Wharton for power. Ask anyone in the industry, they will tell you that networking is perhaps the most important thing when looking for a job. Wharton helps you there far more than YPSM does since it has a vast, far more powerful, alumni base. That, in turn, provides for better job security since even in London or Hong Kong, there will be plenty of Wharton alums to help you out. This gives you more options to work internationally. Harvard, if you include the MBA netowork, is also very powerful.</p>
<p>Myth #6: Getting a high finance job (HF, PE, VC) is not desirable because the experience at a BB makes you better overall and you can get those very jobs after. </p>
<p>I never said that HYPSM grads cannot get into PE. I am well aware of that route, but, again, you are taking a risk. You have to be near the top of your analyst class to move onto PE, and you, in most cases, have to get prior PE experience to get into PE after your MBA. Since most business school are trending younger, that would mean 4 years and a lot of uncertainty for something that you could have gotten right out of undergrad. There is also no guarantee that you will get into a HWS (Harvard, Wharton, and Stanford) which is basically what you need to get into a PE firm, you also need to excel at those schools. At Wharton, all options are open and you can avoid all of that hassle. The strong finance background you get from Wharton going into your IB class also helps you have the intuition to get to the top of your class. (The others will pick up most of the functional skills you need a quarter of the way in, but the intuition and deep knowledge can really give you an edge - which is why people go to business school after their IB stint). That is why there are far more (nearly 5 times - if not more) Wharton grads in PE, as I proved earlier. That network is very helpful as your fellow Wharton grads can help pull you into these ultra selective companies. Wharton gives you that advantage and it gives you the opportunity to get a liberal arts education simultaneously. So if you are interested in finance, I think Wharton is the clear choice.</p>
<p>Lastly, the only reason the IB stint is useful before going to PE is because IB trains you up and gives you modeling skills. That is very useful for a liberal arts grads that have none of that going in, but for Whartonites, their skills in those areas are already very strong and so there is little, if any, value added by doing the IB stint. They can afford to go directly into PE and the since they know their stuff cold, and the PE firms know that.</p>
<p>Myth #7: Going to Wharton gives you no competitive advantage, particularly since kids can handle technical things after six months on the job. </p>
<p>To answer this, I will refer to the very respected, Mr. Malcolm Gladwell, who wrote many famous books on the topic of success. “Outliner” is probably his most notable work.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.gladwell.com/bio.html[/url]”>http://www.gladwell.com/bio.html</a></p>
<p>I’m sure that most of us are familiar with Malcolm Gladwell, his works have become a popular sensation after all. But, just in case you are not, Gladwell is a journalist and an author. He is also a leading thinker on the nurturing of success, much of his work centers around financing common patterns among ultra successful people. His recent book, Outliners, details his research into that question. Essentially, Gladwell argues that experience is everything. </p>
<p>Here is a video of one of his lectures, it encapsulates everything in the book well: [YouTube</a> - Malcolm Gladwell - Why do some succeed where others fail? What makes high-achievers different?](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh9ax4QvzoQ]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh9ax4QvzoQ)</p>
<p>So what does Gladwell have to do with anything? </p>
<p>Well, Gladwell argues that in order to be truly great at something that requires cognitive skill; you MUST put in ten thousand hours of work into it to master it. Now, I’m sure we Whartonites have often heard the refrain, “You pick up everything the Wharton kids learned after 6 months in training.” While this may be true on a superficial level, it seems that Gladwell would argue that the Whartonites are far more likely to master their art since they spent 4 years completely surrounded by it. They are thousands of hours ahead of the HYPSM grads as a result, and are much more likely to have developed a sense of intuition that lasts far longer than 6 months after training.
If you look at the top businessmen in the world, the one thing they had in common is that they all knew that business is what they wanted to do. They all got a head start on everyone else at doing it, either by trading in their dorm room or actually studying business.</p>
<p>Warren Buffett springs to mind with finance, Bill Gates with programming, the Ambani brothers with general business. Just look at sports, (as Gladwell does), almost everyone who plays in the NHL started playing when they were little kids and knew that this is what they wanted to do. You do not get to the NHL by saying in college, “Oh, I think I want to play hockey. If I study this skating manual for two weeks I should be able to catch up with the guys who have been skating since they were 3, skating is simple after all.” It just does not work that way, you don’t have the intuition of the skater that started out young. You may be able to skate just fine, but you will likely be hard pressed to develop the finesse and intuition of a kid who has been skating since they were little. Wharton gives you intuition that you cannot get elsewhere; well, nowhere near as easily at least. </p>
<p>That is probably why so few Wharton kids need to get MBAs. Most probably tend to be the top analysts because of the intuition they developed and are promoted directly. The HYP kids have a steep learning curve to get over – which they do, but there is a difference between functionality and excellence. They go get an MBA to help them catch up. </p>
<p>So even though the other kids catch up on a functional level after six months, the Wharton kids still have an advantage because they have been practicing for longer; their business education is also far more in-depth than the education provided during the job training session.</p>
<p>Remember, at Wharton you are still able to take liberal arts courses so you still have a liberal arts experience.</p>
<p>Myth #8: The liberal arts education you will receive at HYPSM is far better than the one you can receive at Penn. </p>
<p>It is not like there is a huge difference in the quality of the liberal arts departments between HYPSM and Penn. If you look at the National research council’s rankings, Penn has many top top notch departments (and many of that are superior to many individual HYPSM programs). Penn is just one place behind Yale on the US news ranking and ties with the other HYPSM school. It is middle Ivy, the liberal arts experience is going to be very similar. It is not like Plato’s republic is going to become so much better if you are studying it with a prof that published 500 articles on the book instead of 450, both of whom have Harvard PHDs, Pulitzer Prizes and the who shabaz. In the past ten years, Penn affiliates have won a total of 10 Nobel prizes, more than some HYPSM school. Plus, Penn has the one university concept. That means you can take classes at any of its graduate schools. So you can sit in on courses at Penn Law School, or attend Penn Med School lectures (the oldest med school in the country, top 3 along with Harvard and John Hopkins). The opportunities are limitless.</p>
<p>I’ll let Ilovebagels expound on the various strengths on the college; he is the resident expert on that front. Just type in “Addendum to Myth #8: …” and post away. Thanks.</p>
<p>As a supplement to Myth #5: You have a much wider range of choices within the financial industry itself. HYPSM, harvard excluded, sends almost no one to PE or Hedge fund firms directly out of undergrad. That’s because such firms are small and cannot train you as much so they want kids who are ready from day one, so Wharton kids have a huge advantage in getting hired. If you do not mind studying business, Wharton is the clear choice.</p>
<p>Caveat:</p>
<p>I’ve written a lot here, though I feel confident that most of what I say is on the ball, it may not all be accurate. If you see something wrong, call me out on it. </p>
<p>Please feel free to post. I would love to hear from you guys, what your takes on these myths are, or things of that nature. If you have any myths that you’d like to dispel, go ahead and do it. Just try to stick to the format I’ve used above and number the myths so that it is clear and easy for users to see. </p>
<p>Similarly, in the interest of user friendliness and organization, if you’d like to reply directly to a myth, start you post out with: “Responding to Myth #8: …”, for instance, and post away. Thanks.</p>
<p>this is wonderful, very informative. </p>
<p>thanks a million!</p>
<p>kafkareborn, you either work for Wharton admission’s office or are just a ridiculous student promoter. Chill.</p>
<p>I plead the second. I can’t help it, the curve in the marketing class is so tough; I thought I better get some practice in on here to get ahead of the pack. 
JK, of course. </p>
<p>No, the truth is that love does strange things to people. It warps your personality. It blurs the line between admiration and obsession. It clouds any sense of judgment, boundaries, or shame. What can I say, I love Penn.</p>
<p>@booyaksha: I know kafka is for real - he’s in the Wharton 2014 facebook group…otherwise I’d think he was a front for the admissions office too haha.</p>
<p>i’d be interested to see how your perceptions have changed / grown at this time next year</p>
<p>Well, my work here is done. I’ve had my fun. I suppose I’ll just run along now and play some Halo and hit the gym instead of lounging about CC. I hate being idle. </p>
<p>I’ll be sure to tell you what I think a year from now.</p>
<p>Good luck with everything everyone, it’s been fun. I’m officially an ex-CCer.</p>
<p>^^ he’ll be back…I thought I was done with CC too lol</p>
<p>How do you have so much free time? I started getting afraid of commenting on topics you made for fear you will make extremely long responses that I would be too lazy to read.</p>
<p>Ha, don’t worry. I won’t be responding at all. Like I said, I’m done with CC. Well, if necrophilliac is correct, at least I think I am.</p>
<p>I’ve been here on CC since 2004… I’ve “quit” too many times now. Kinda sad in some sense. I think it’s mainly out of boredom occasionally, lol.</p>