<p>Umm I mentioned that as an example. Remind me how that makes me narcisstic?</p>
<p>Rtgrove, where can you see Wharton’s results threads? Because I could only find about 5-10 accepted posts which dont really give you a clear picture of the student quality at Wharton, compared to the many many more posts on the HYPSM results threads. Also, remember that Wharton looks for a very specific type of applicant.</p>
<p>@Greenexcess: He’s a current Wharton student. I fancy he will know something about the student body’s quality.</p>
<p>to be fair, rtgrove is class of 2014, so he hasn’t actually had a class yet</p>
<p>there are several older current students and alumni who have posted in this thread already, including yours truly, who have taken tons of wharton courses and know the quality quite well</p>
<p>A few difference in percentage points isn’t going to make a massive difference when it comes to admission rates. HYPSM and Wharton all have very low admission rates, and they all have tons of high-quality students.</p>
<p>Here in NYC, I have friends from multiple Ivies and you wouldn’t be able to tell who came from where based on intellect/interests/etc alone. They’re ALL smart. Debating “quality” at this point is silly.</p>
<p>Prestige does matter to a certain degree, but what will matter more is what you know, what you can do, and what connections you have. You’ll be able to hammer out all of those things no matter which school you go to, especially where HYPSM and Wharton are concerned.</p>
<p>greenexcess:</p>
<p>I went back thru the 2013 and 2014 threads (both ED and RD) with a friend who will be attending Wharton this fall with me. Idk…I’d say there were like 20+ kids total from that though I may be wrong as I went thru those threads in like march. However, we both felt like the quality of Wharton students wasn’t as high as those of HYPS. That shouldn’t mean a whole ton because Wharton commands as much attention as H for business.</p>
<p>dreamer:</p>
<p>I am class of 2014. I have no idea how classes will look at Wharton. I was just sharing my opinion of the results threads for Penn. I will say this in favor of Penn though. At Preview Days, I met several students who were planning on turning down Yale and Princeton for Wharton. I am not sure if they were just saying that because they were on Penn’s campus, but there was a definite feeling among cross admits between W and HYPS that W was just as good as those other schools.</p>
<p>As legendofmax said, who cares if Wharton is deemed a peer of only HYPS or of Dartmouth/Columbia. Its a great ivy league school with an outstanding reputation. You had to be smart to get in, and W will enable you to get an ABSOLUTELY insane job out of school.</p>
<p>How many of them actually did turn down Yale and Princeton? That will be more helpful because what someone says on the spur of the moment when they are caught up in the excitement of seeing Penn for the first time is a bit unreliable.</p>
<p>I didn’t get into Princeton, but I turned down HYSMCB for W, and I know plenty of others who turned down schools in the HYPSM canon, too.</p>
<p>@legendofmax: Yeah well that might be because people who go to Wharton are usually looking for a very specific kind of education, perhaps hoping to join the IB breed and well HYPS doesnt really have a ‘wholesale’ undergraduate business program. But thats ok because I want to go into finance as well.
Well I am mostly satisfied and I am going to turn my attention to my application now. Although I cant help but say that its hard to get a fair review when its quite obvious that the people on this thread are biased. First we have greenexcess making tall claims that W is beyond HYPSM and then we have gugopo making cretinous claims that W alumni are mediocre (Care to prove that?).
Oh and lastly I would like to add that despite what Penners are saying about not caring for prestige, I couldnt help but notice that there is a very active thread in the Upenn forum about penn being ranked at no. 5. It brings to the fore a number of complexes and sensitivities that Penn students seem to be nurturing regarding their college’s slightly lower perceived brand value. I mean nobody in the Harvard forum is debating on whether its fair for Harvard to be number 1 are they?
Just making a point.</p>
<p>Of course – Wharton is, at its most basic level, a business school. You go to a business school to study business.</p>
<p>People typically debate Penn because its schools have, perhaps, a wider variance of quality. Penn was(/is) typically associated with Penn CAS, which most people will agree is not HYP-level. But Penn has undergone some pretty dramatic improvements over recent years, and reputation takes some time to catch up.</p>
<p>I can tell you as a Wharton graduate that if you attend Wharton, you’re going to have plenty of very intelligent classmates. And I can also tell you that you won’t find much difference between Wharton students and Harvard/Yale/Princeton students. And, lastly, I can also tell you that even after you graduate, they’ll all be regarded on roughly equal grounds as far as careers/jobs are concerned. You may all be studying different things, but in terms of intelligence, there will be almost no difference. Likewise for prestige (which I argue only has a minimal impact, to be honest. Brains and people skills always win out).</p>
<p>It really comes down to what you want to study. You can’t go wrong with any choice amongst HYPW as long as you are enjoying what you’re learning.</p>
<p>Your approach on brains and people skills is fairly practical but it seems you are forgetting what’s the outlook of those who are on the cusp of a stage that is long past to you. Right now where I am standing, the quality of education and the prestige factor are two very very crucial elements of my college selection process, elements which I might add I am constantly weighing against the huge cost of college tuition as I finalize my decisions.<br>
I mean you have to agree that college is the place where you develop and hone most of the people skills that you will keep with you for the rest of your life. Thats why it’s so important to the applicants (especially those who are highly motivated) to be convinced that the college they aspire to attend will be the right one to help them accomplish their goals. Thats why I did no wrong in asking for the fair assessment of a program that is not as well known as HYPSM.
That being said, I agree with you that if HYPSMW has roughly the same quality then people skills and brains take over. But the IF is a big one.</p>
<p>I understand your position, as I have been on that cusp before. Back in the day I was a bit concerned over prestige and reputation and quality (hence why I applied to so many top schools) – but I am giving you the advice that I am as someone who has gone through the process and has seen what things are like on the other side. It may be a somewhat tricky pill to swallow with so many people your age so concerned over reputation/college life/career paths down the road, but the reality can be a bit different once you’ve actually experienced it.</p>
<p>It’s not so much that I am “forgetting the outlook” of those who are on the cusp as much as I am “remembering the flaws” in that outlook – one that I once shared. It’s smart to choose a school based on end goals, but you should still consider what factors are really the most important for achieving those goals so you don’t give an attribute too much/not enough credit. </p>
<p>Prestige matters – there’s absolutely no doubt about that, and I’m not going to be one of those guys who will sit back and say that it doesn’t. But what I do think is that when it comes to top schools, the difference in prestige stops mattering as much. If you really want to study finance, go to Wharton and don’t worry about whether or not the possible “added” prestige of Harvard will somehow provide you with a comparably more massive boost towards your end goals, because it absolutely won’t.</p>
<p>Hmm much better thank you. Especially when I compare it to the ludicrous charges that have been levied at me in this thread including narcissim and an obsession with prestige lol. I think these are people who have trouble accepting the fact that Penn in fact does have a reputation which is inferior (slightly shall we say before I incite another assault on myself?) to HYPSM. Whether it matters or not is a different story.
However your opinion certainly helped. Of course I might add on a precautionery note that your experience might not be the perfect stick to live by as you seem to be a recent graduate yourself. Even if you werent your experiences could be specific to you. It might actually be true that Harvard DOES in fact give you a career boost vis-a-vis Penn. But all that is sheer speculation so I shall desist.</p>
<p>The top firms pretty much cherry-pick applicants from the Ivies anyway. I think there’s this general “assumption” amongst younger applicants that people are going to “ooh and aah” over HYP and somehow give those applicants some kind of boost over, say, Penn/Wharton students (or even Stanford/MIT students). That nebulous “boost” is a myth (and almost every recruiter will tell you the same thing). All of those top schools will simply be regarded as top schools to a recruiter, and once you make it to the interview, brains and people skills will determine your fate. And, finally, brains/people skills are best augmented when you’re studying what you want to study.</p>
<p>So just apply where you want to study, and enjoy college. 
Good luck to you.</p>
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<p>aha. ahahaha.</p>
<p>I don’t think they’re especially ludicrous, but you’re lucky that legendofmax is so helpful. Almost everyone who attends Penn (and HYPSM, and a lot of other schools) is “highly motivated”. Obviously prestige factors into the decision, but past a certain level it’s all irrelevant. Even after actual students responded, you write</p>
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<p>I know a few people who go to Harvard who hate it, but won’t transfer because it’s Harvard. For some reason, your posts remind me of them.</p>
<p>^
^
The above poster ladies and gentlemen is what (nope ‘who’ is not the correct pronoun) I was talking about. YOU for some reason remind me of the people who do media management for mudslinging newspapers. I wonder why.
Oh no wait maybe its because you conveniently forgot to mention that I myself admitted that I was purely speculating when I said:</p>
<p>“Of course I might add on a precautionery note that your experience might not be the perfect stick to live by as you seem to be a recent graduate yourself. Even if you werent your experiences could be specific to you. It might actually be true that Harvard DOES in fact give you a career boost vis-a-vis Penn.”</p>
<p>Or no wait MAYBE its because you posted on this thread with an opinion largely irrelevant to what was being discussed, with an attitude that you think clearly makes you popular.
LOL.
Oh and past a certain level? Penn is usually grouped with the likes of Duke and Northwestern (they are good schools of course). Wharton might be a different story.</p>
<p>dreamer1992 has a really practical way of thinking and I respect that.</p>
<p>To offer my honest opinion, the only thing I would change about Penn so far is the CC inferiority complex. I was chatting with my friend who goes to Princeton the other day about this, about how the average person is amazed when he drops the P-bomb. We at Penn don’t have a P-bomb, and this is something you have to accept if you come here. I know I turned down “bomb” schools to come here, because, although “common man” prestige is nice, it’s not everything I was looking for. </p>
<p>Would I have gone to Princeton if I weren’t M&T? Quite possibly. But, one thing I’ve learned in this process is that you can’t try to jack up prestige and say that Penn is equal to or better than whatever it is you care to compare it to. As a debater, I prefer empiricism to debate, because anything can be spun. Anyway, into my main spiel.</p>
<p>If it really is prestige that you care a lot about, you have to know a little bit about Penn’s history, because prestige is a deep-rooted tree. In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, you could get into “B”-school with gentleman’s "C"s. There was no prestige in that, and Harvard and Yale educated the very best lawyers and doctors, while Princeton has long-standing roots in politics. Penn, of course, could not compete at that time, and was even sort of a pseudo-Ivy. Judith Rodin came to Penn in 1994 after her tenure at Yale, and brought with her some of the strategies for sucessful university management. Consequently, Penn began to increase it’s quality of education. Ever since, Penn has been doing better and better- it seems as if it’s on an upward spiral. Prestige takes a long time to change because it requires a metamorphosis of generational beliefs, but gradually, Penn is being looked at with more respect. </p>
<p>Wharton does provide some great career opportunities- I know that some PE and VC firms come only to Wharton, and some of those only to M&T, to recruit. However, if it bothers you that the basic Penn name might not be as “good” as that of HYPS, which is admittedly true, you might consider those colleges first. Either way, I really wish people would stop trying to push Penn up, or make ridiculous claims on its quality. Just let the results speak for themselves.</p>
<p>^
Amen.</p>
<p>Although on a side note, isnt the prestige of the JFP program on par with HYPSM programs (I mean I have heard its easily one of the most selective.) Could you confirm that AltEntrepreneur.</p>
<p>P.S. (To everybody else) No this is not another reflection of my prestige obessions. Its just that I am curious about M&T. :)</p>
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<p>Actually I would rather that you leave it.</p>
<p>Ok dreamer there is lot of air that needs to be cleaned up here. I am a Penn Wharton student but I am Class of 2014 so whether or not you want to heed my advice is entirely up to you.
Firstly you are dead on. Prestige matters a LOT. If some people dont agree, well then I respect your opinion, but you sure as hell have no business criticizing people who do care about it. When some one is investing 55k a year in his education, he has evey right (I would even say a duty) to be absoultely sure that he’s satisfied with his decision. Ten years on, you dont want to look back and say “If only I hadnt listened to those twerps on College Confidential …” Today be it any commodity, any product, any service, tangible or intangible, the things that speaks loudest is it brand value. Its quality. If there are people who disagree, take a hike. Or see if you can persuade Warren Buffet to stop sporting Versache.
When it comes to education quality is even more important. You are absolutely correct in claiming that college is the time when people hone most of their skills. But as legendofmax very wisely stated, when prestige reaches a certain level, intelligence and skills make the real difference. So the real question is- where exactly do Penn and Wharton stand?
Well on different levels. I absolutely disagree with the USNWR rankings that Penn deserves to be tied with S and ahead of M and C. Penn is realistically speaking well ahead of Brown (I anyways dislike C’s obessions with the Ivy League), marginally ahead of Duke, Cornell and Northwestern, tied with Dartmouth and inches behind Columbia (which I believe is behind HYPSM and Caltech). That would put Penn at 8 or 9. And certainly as AltEntrepreneur said Penn still has a lot to prove. Those who want to shove this fact under the carpet are just underachievers or baggaged with their own insecurities about Penn. Well I am not one of them. I am straightforward about the fact that the college I am attending is still not the very best in the world. But its trying to get there.
Now on to the schools. You dont really care about Nursing but its top ranked in the country. You mentioned an interest in m&t so I you need to know that although SEAS doesnt figure even in the top ten list of engineering schools, it is excellent for a select few disciplines (one of them is bioengineering). Overall, unfortunately, SEAS trails far behind schools like Stanford or Princeton not to mention MIT and Caltech. Third we have CAS which again has high aceptance rates and although its on par with what Cornell and Brown offers, no it is NOT an HYPS.
On to Wharton. I too was knee deep in my research before I applied and I can tell you for fact, its the best undergraduate business school in the country. For recruitments, placements and cachet it holds its own with HYPSM. No question. And here is where legendofmax’s advice comes into play. When prestige reaches a certain level it doesnt matter. So if you get accepted into Wharton you neednt worry the teensiest bit about career opportunities and academic experiences.
However the best advice I can give you is this. If you are a 100% sure that you want to go into business, W is the place to go. But if you havent made up your mind yet, you will be much better off in HYPS. Their quality and environment is on a level that Penn hasn’t quite reached. Yet. And any reasonable Penn/W student will concur with that.
So stop worrying, stay focused and work on your apps. Good luck! :)</p>
<p>Oh and MajorLazer, if prestige doesnt matter, why is that you took only Harvard’s name when you were trying to prove a point about an obsession with prestige? Why is it that in every argument, whenever people with two different perspectives on anything here in CC, it always happens that Harvard is used whenever a case for a top quality school needs to be made? And as dreamer92 righly pointed out, why is no one in the Harvard forum judging USNWR for ranking it the best in America?
That’s right. Prestige is the answer.</p>
<p>What a lot of the alumni here are saying, though, is that once you get to Penn, your views about prestige will undoubtedly change. Prestige matters. Just not as much as you think. Anyone thinking that Penn/Wharton might “hold them back” in opportunity compared to Harvard is laughably unrealistic.</p>
<p>I look around my workplace and, from where I am sitting now, see people from Harvard, Dartmouth, NYU, Stanford, Cornell, Yale, Princeton, etc… we all go to the same places.</p>