What Amount of Debt is Reasonable/Feasible?

<p>You know, if I lived in New York I would gladly sent my kids to SUNYs if that is all we could afford. My son is going to finish his education at a California CSU (Humboldt) which is no better nor worse than a SUNY. My daughter has at least 3 California classmates who will be attending a SUNY next year -- among other attractions of the SUNY system is the fact that the out-of-state tuition is so modest that the overall cost of attendance at a SUNY is equivalent or less than in-state costs for a UC. </p>

<p>Your education is what you make of it, not the label that is attached. If the classes you are in don't demand enough of you, then demand more of yourself. What's stopping you? </p>

<p>If you are concerned your future, then the less debt the better. I am an adult and I woudn't want to have or be able to handle $50K worth of debt (other than mortage debt which is different, since you get to live in the house and the debt can be cleared by selling the house). </p>

<p>As far as debt for my kids is concerned, I expect them to take whatever is allowed via Stafford loans and no more. I figure debt which results in a monthly payment of around $200 or so is probably easily manageable, and it won't wreck their credit to have that showing up.</p>

<p>You don't want to be age 50 living with the financial mistakes you made at age 20. You need to structure things so that your debt payments are a small part of your overall cash flow.</p>

<p>Thanks, and it's not that I'm against SUNY schools at all, but they are definetly lacking compared to some of the other state schools around the country. It just kind of sucks to be in that position.</p>

<p>And well, I do realize school is what I make of it, but a good program is a good program and it'll be far easier to make the best of it. As of now at Hofstra I've made the best of my education and done quite well, but wasn't pushed to my hardest and it's out of my hands past that. I guess I could have managed a 4.0, but 3.89 isn't far behind that and compared to high school (and my horrible work ethic there), I've down a complete 180 (although my 3.4 or so isn't that bad I guess).</p>

<p>Anyway, I think you are right and I should definetly go to a SUNY, just need to figure out which one. I'll be applying to some out of state and private schools (with the hopes they'll give me money), but not going to get my hopes up. I'll be happy without a SUNY, but I mostly just want them to offer the classes I want, professors that will push me/help me learn, and be around kids I'll like.</p>

<p>I guess I'll have to see which is right for me, but I just don't know. </p>

<p>It's not easy to find a school that's big with a strong psych and creative writing program (and maybe even screenwriting on top of that). Michigan was one school that fit my needs, and a few others did (although not perfectly) too, but not sure what SUNYs will. Just gotta do some research on binghamton, stony brook, etc...</p>

<p>My daughter's friends are interested in arts (dance & theater tech) and are going to SUNY Purchase, which does offer a BFA program in dramatic writing via its Conservatory of Theatre Arts & Film. So you might want to check that out.</p>

<p>Do keep in mind, however, that you don't need a degree in creative writing or screen writing to make it as a writer. Most successful writers bring experience in other areas to their craft -- too narrow a focus leaves the person with technical skills but nothing original to write about. Back when I was a student interested in creative writing, I was always told, "write what you know"... and I'd think, "but I don't know anything"..... after I practiced law for a number of years, I had lots of great stories to write about, but no time to do it. But I see why John Grisham does so well, and it sure didn't come from some college creative writing course. I am a published author at this point, though it is a nonfiction book ... turns out that the "write what you know" part was really good advice after all.</p>

<p>Yup, writing what you know is definetly a huge help, but I'd like to go to a school that had some (at least decent) creative writing courses. It's not that I need them, but I'd enjoy them and definetly benefit from it. I think if I could be in like small workshop-type writing classes and stuff, it'd be pretty fun. However, that is not mainly what I want with my education anyway, just a part (major reason the college choice is so hard).</p>

<p>I love psychology (mainly social psychology) and want to study this at a good program as well, so that adds another criteria to the school I am looking for. </p>

<p>Hopefully after finishing up undergrad school with those majors I could then go to law school and become a lawyer (want to do criminal law). </p>

<p>That's really what I'd love to do, and then, of course, write on the side. I don't know if I'll have the time, but I'll try my best to make it happen. </p>

<p>I guess I just have to find a SUNY school (prolly not purchase, because I'm not a big fan of the school... it's actually to where I live) that has a good psych program. I'm going to just pray that they have a decent eng/creative writing program as well, but we'll see.</p>

<p>And if all goes perfectly maybe a school like Michigan AA will love me enough to give me lots of money :)</p>

<p>I'm realizing you are just sayin', but...</p>

<p>If you want merit money from Michigan, you'll probably need 34+ ACT or 1500+ SAT. But being a URM will give you far more leeway and you could very well get a huge merit scholarship with only average stats.</p>

<p>Michigan is stingy with aid money, especially to out-of-staters</p>

<p>How much undergrad debt is feasible if a student plans to go on to law school, for which he will not receive any parent financial support?</p>

<p>Dismo, I'm pretty sure I don't even need to show them my SAT grades because I'm not a high school senior, or even a college freshmen (well I am now). I'll be applying next year to go in my junior year. After that they just weigh your college grades, which SATs don't have a part of. I could go take my SATs again and probably score fairly well, but I've been told I don't have to if I'm applying to school for my junior year.</p>

<p>So, I don't see what else I can do for transfering other than have a good GPA and ECs. Right now I don't have a perfect GPA, but a 3.89 isn't bad, and maybe I can get that up if I do get a 4.0 my sophmore year. </p>

<p>So, if I'm accepted, I don't know what else I'd have to do other than do my best in my classes here, do some ECs I enjoy, have good recs, and write a good essay. We'll see I guess... </p>

<p>I'm definetly not banking on them giving me a good amount of money or any at all or maybe even accepting me, but at the same time I don't think it's completely hopeless. Eh, I dunno...</p>

<p>And GFG, I think you should half the feasible debt without law school. </p>

<p>Law school (if you don't do some joint program that might take longer) is three years, I think, and often a similar price as undergraduate school.</p>

<p>I'm not sure how aid/scholarships word for law school, but it's safe to say that if you're going to law school you'd want to half your undergraduate debt (say 30k to 15k) to cushion yourself for law school debt.</p>

<p>The price of school just sucks. It's so ridiculous.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
I love psychology (mainly social psychology) and want to study this at a good program as well, so that adds another criteria to the school I am looking for. </p>

<p>Hopefully after finishing up undergrad school with those majors I could then go to law school and become a lawyer (want to do criminal law).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If you are planning to do either of these, then you definitely need to keep your undergrad debt as low as possible.</p>

<p>For psychology, having an undergrad degree only will get you know where because at minimum, you will need a masters to do counseling or a PhD is you are going to counseling and/or research (current psych grad student here). Even then most of the Grad students I know who are in the masters program got $7500 in scholarship money , which covers 1 graduate course at NYU and the rest is in loans as very few Masters programs give full scholarships. </p>

<p>The PhD students which there are only a really small group in each cohort earch year (my cohort has 4) do get tuition remission in return for 20 hours of work (as a TA/GA) in addtion to speding long hours on research teams as part of your studies. You do receive a stipend, but living in NYC is really expensive, so many have roommates and some work as GAs in the dorms (as to get free housing). This is not my experience, as I am a full time working parent and a full time grad student (because of work commitments), I could not do the TA/GA time commitment, I have a 1/2 scholarship, my employer picks up one class (after jumping through a lot of hoops to make it happen) and I pay for one class out of pocket .</p>

<p>As a parent who's kid is looking to go the law school route, I have already told her that I will do all we can to help her have the minimum amount of debt for undergrad, but she is applying to law school with the knowledge that the cost will be all hers. with this mindset she knows that she will have to look at a number of different schools (i vas just talking to one of my friends whose D graduated from the Honors college at Queens college, took a year off, worked and applied to law school. Had excellents grades and LSAT scores but she decided to go to a "lower tier" school in order to graduate with minimum debt. Got accepted to Howard, Rugters, Villanova and St. Johns. Matriculated at St. Johns and decided to live at home because ST. Johns gave her a full scholarship.</p>

<p>with law school costing about the same 40K as undergrad, it you max out on your student loans now, there will be less money available for you to borrow if you need it for law shcool.</p>

<p>LeCorbeau and CollegeKid, I have a couple of points to make which just may take up the whole page. :-)</p>

<p>First, debt: you say that you will live at home, make $30-50,000 and have that loan paid off in no time. Both of you think that's not a horrible amount of debt.</p>

<p>Let's assume you get a job at $40,000, right in the middle of Lecorbeau's projections. (This is a more likely salary for an econ major than one in creative writing.) Have you accounted for taxes, health care benefits, social security? You'll probably end up taking home $25,000 after all that. Still sounds like a lot of money? You'll need transportation to and from work. That'll take a chunk. Meals while you are at work. Clothes. Do you have any idea how much a suit costs? And if you're in business, you have to look good, so, while you don't have to buy an Armani suit, you can't expect to make a good impression in a polyester one picked up from TJMaxx. Just one suit won't do, either. You'll be at work five days a week. Do you expect to do anything beside work? Eat out with friends? Take vacations? Lastly, would your parents really put up with you and pay all your expenses without charging rent when you're 25-30? 35? If you're
really frugal and don't worry about saving for retirement and your own kids' college education (or for the possibility that you'll be laid off), then you might have $10,000 - 15,000 a year to use to repay loans. Oh, one more thing: interest. Even as you start to pay off the loans, they will be increasing in amount every month because of interest. Have you done the calculations?</p>

<p>Next: creative writing. I have two books of fiction published as well as numerous short stories. I went to an Ivy League school and majored in drama and creative writing. I now teach fiction writing at the undergraduate level. If I knew then what I know now, I would say that there is NO sense in majoring in creative writing. Yeah, take the courses, but a major isn't going to get you published. Only the individual stories will, and most of your learning will come from reading, not taking classes in writing. Ninety-five percent of all fiction writers do not make enough money on their writing alone to fully support themselves. They teach or have other professional jobs, so you'll need to prepare yourself that way. It's much better to have a great job and write on the side than find yourself an unemployed college grad. My daughter, who is also an aspiring writer, just figured this out for herself when it came to selecting her college for next year. The only exception I'd make here is the undergrad writing program at Princeton, which has the most famous faculty teaching undergrads exclusively and which can offer the best connections into the publishing world nationwide. (Grad schools are different animals.)</p>

<p>Prestigious colleges offer fantastic networks for the future, but you have to be savvy enough to know how to use them. I wouldn't say that those networks are worth a young adulthood of crushing debt. Besides, there are no guarantees. You see these high figure salaries for Ivy League and top LAC schools without realizing that many of those upper salaries come from the business network of well-heeled parents, not because of the degree itself. I can't tell you how many of my classmates were set up in business by their parents, either through job connections or seed money for a new business. Many received down payments for houses as graduation gifts. They had trust funds to help pay for expenses while they worked their way into higher paying positions. It goes without saying that they had no debt to begin with. This is the life of the rich, not of the average graduate. You need to separate those realities from your own situation. When you see the stats posted by, say, Bowdoin, you should realize that the high end of the spectrum is probably silver spoon money. Look to the middle and below to get a good idea. Of course, these prestigious schools do offer more acceptances into top grad schools, provided the student does well academically. </p>

<p>Remember, you'll probably want to get married and have a family by the time you're in your early thirties, maybe sooner. How can you save for your children's education if you can't pay off your own?</p>

<p>^Very true and thank you for the further advice. </p>

<p>I definetly have to transfer to a SUNY, and even the debt after 2 years at Hofstra is going to be a lot (if only I took more consideration into colleges and applied to SUNY schools in the first place), I'll owe over 30k! I definetly don't think it's worth that amount, DEFINETLY not worth 60k+ after 4 years, then I must go to law school.</p>

<p>I know psychology is not a good major for money, but that is not what I want my career to be. I am definetly going to law school. The only other thing I'd like to do is be a writer (screen writer actually), but that is more of a hobby of mine that I'd do on the side in hopes to maybe some day make money from it. </p>

<p>Well, just need to find a SUNY, or hope some school gives me a nearly full ride or something crazy like that.</p>

<p>For screenwriting, more than any other kind of writing, you need connections. That's why so many aspiring screenwriters study in CA.</p>

<p>Very true, but that still is a problem considering all california colleges are very expensive. Considering it's not necessarily something I want to have a career with (because it's so difficult to make a good living), california schools aren't at the top of my list, unless they give me money.</p>

<p>Money is a big factor here, and it sucks that NY has bad state schools. I don't care what others say, because it's true. The best state school in NY is Binghamton, and I've heard nothin, but bad things from 3 friends I have who went there, from people on this board, and reviews elsewhere online. Compare that to state schools everywhere else (many times in less wealthy, powerful states) and you see they don't stand anywhere near them.</p>

<p>I thought Geneseo and Stony Brook were the best SUNY schools.</p>

<p>momwaitingfornew,</p>

<p>Great analysis on how far $40-50,000 really goes !!</p>

<p>Thanks, Sybbie. I was naive at that age, too; my father set me straight.</p>

<p>Geneseo might overtake Binghamton for best SUNY, but as of now I think Binghamton is usually known as the best. Stony Brook is great, especially in their sciences, but definetly off from Binghamton in terms of rankings. It could, perhaps, surpass Binghamton at some point (because things are definetly looking up for them), but I don't really know.</p>

<p>Binghamton, I'm pretty sure, has a horrible student retention rate, which in return gives them horrible student and alumni support. This is definetly one reason they haven't done well, another is New York just doesn't know what they are doing when it comes to funding schools I guess. They are spreading their money out very thin, rather than making sure they have at least one great, landmark university. Instead they have a bunch of mediocre ones to pretty good ones, that will probably never reach top status. It's a shame.</p>

<p>Collegekid,</p>

<p>I think that you need a paradigm shift. It is not about finding the best SUNY school, it is about finding the best SUNY school for **you **</p>

<p>Given what you have written so far, that probably is neither stonybrook or bing but SUNY Purchase.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.purchase.edu/departments/AcademicPrograms/LAS/humanities/CreativeWriting.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.purchase.edu/departments/AcademicPrograms/LAS/humanities/CreativeWriting.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>fyi- you can major in anything you want for law school (think about doing a philosophy minor )</p>

<p>I apologize for doing this, but...... CollegeKid, the word is "definitely". You definitely need to make sure you spell it correctly in your college essays, because you definitely use this word a lot! ;)</p>

<p>^Yea, I should definITEly correct that, lol. It is actually the one word I type incorrectly all the time. I think it's just a typing habit of some sort that I can't break. When I'm writing papers it is caught by spellcheck, so, trust me, I've realized it. I don't actually bother checking over my posts here, so when I do it, I don't actually correct it. Thank you for pointing it out though, even if it's probably the word I commonly spell wrong.</p>

<p>Anyway, I know that I need the best SUNY for me, but I don't know what it is and never actually said for certain what I thought it was. I did mention Stony Brook, but considering Psychology is important to me and it has probably the top psych program out of all the SUNYs (or so I've read/heard). I'm not sure how SUNY purchase is in psychology, but I have no idea how their psychology program is.</p>

<p>Also, I actually already have 6 credits of philosophy courses at Hofstra and was planning on most likely minoring in it because I think it's incredibly interesting and helpful. </p>

<p>Anyway, thanks for all the help so far, I'm so sorry for my long posts and acting so damn clueless. I wish I knew what to do here, where to go, etc, etc, but I don't. So, that's why I'm here looking for help...</p>