I’m taking 6 AP exams soon and I want to know which ones I should study more for
I’m taking AP Bio, Physics 2, Calc BC, Government, Literature, and Statistics. I know Calc BC I need a good score for sure, but it doesn’t look like any of the other classes will be useful for my Computer Science degree. Can anyone confirm?
Also I was wondering if I get any credit/placement for these scores: 5 US history, 5 Physics 1, 5 Calculus AB, 4 Chemistry, 4 World History, 4 English Language. I’ve looked at the chart and I’m still kinda confused. Like for example under Historical Analysis, it says Units of AP: 1. But then it seems like we get nothing for the AP history exams.
Princeton uses AP credits differently than some other schools. AP work allows you to place into the next higher class but does not count as a college credit per se. For example, if the student takes AP Calc AB the student may place into Calc 2 at Princeton but still is required to take the full number of courses associated with that degree. This allows the student to move past the prerequisites more quickly and onto more interesting coursework. A word of caution - having taken an AP course is not a true replacement for the depth that Princeton courses are taught at. My son opted to take a course his first year that he could have placed out of with AP credit and was grateful he did. The bottom line is that AP work allows for placement but not credit.
The exception to the above scenario is for students who come in with an exceptional number of AP courses. We know someone who came from a magnet school with an IB diploma and 25 AP credits who applied for advance standing (doing the degree in 3 years vs 4).
@Cantiger Ooh ok, thanks! I was wondering for B.S.E. majors, what is the average amount of classes someone takes per semester? At public universities where students can get enough AP credits to skip a year, usually they only take 3-4 classes per semester because they have so much credit so they can spread classes out. At Princeton it seems everyone has to take at least 4 classes per semester and sometimes 5 for B.S.E. majors? Is it stressful to take that many classes per semester?
BSE concentrators generally alternate between 4 and 5 classes per semester, whereas AB students take 4 every semester, unless they really want to take more (my son knew someone who took 6 which he thought was insane). To answer your question about whether it is stressful, I think it really depends on the person. Most college students experience some stress at some point in their college career.
My son found his first semester extremely stressful which was about 90% self inflicted. He was not used to seeing grades below the upper 90’s ever (our grading system at home) and the volume and complexity of the work caught him off guard. In October that year he told me he was pretty sure he would fail out. We encouraged him to get some tutoring (Princeton offers free tutoring to all their students) and to shift his focus from grades to simply learning. It took a bit but by the end of that first semester he finished with a slightly higher than average GPA for BSE students. The next semester it rose a bit more. By his junior year he was getting top marks in all his courses. Later this month he will graduate and we expect it will be with some type of honors.
Academically and intellectually he has developed enormously but there were certainly growing pains along the way. I think this is fairly common in the Princeton experience and truly I don’t think he would have had that degree of growth in many other places.
Some things I would recommend to help ease stress in the transition process:
Consider not placing out of every course you are eligible for. Princeton courses are taught at great depth and some familiarity with the material going in can build confidence and lay a solid foundation for the next one. ie - having taken AP Calc BC would allow you to place out of Calc 1 & Calc 2 and straight into multivariable calculus. Talk to your advisor (this fall) about whether taking Calc 2 would be recommended at Princeton. It means longer with the pre-req’s but it might be worth it as a confidence builder and some (relative) ease in at least one course. My son was surprised how many students opted to go this route.
Use your time wisely and stay on top of your work. Time management cannot be stressed enough. Some incoming freshmen will have found high school a breeze and homework that could be done at the last minute. That won’t work at Princeton for the most part and definitely not for BSE students.
Make sure you ask for help/clarification on concepts you are unsure of. As I mentioned, Princeton offers free tutoring so take them up on it!! No one will think less of you as a student for going. The material moves at such a fast pace in many classes that any gaps in your learning can become an issue. Also go to office hours! Many of the profs are tremendously helpful and they enjoy interacting with their students.
Focus on learning, not grades. Most profs still have tough grading policies, even without grade deflation present. If you learn the material well, the grades will follow. Also take a course or two just because it sounds interesting! Courses outside of your concentration (with the exception of language courses) can be taken on a P/D/F basis so try something new!
Remember that you were admitted by many people on a committee who were all convinced you have what it takes to succeed. If you hit a few ‘speed bumps’ just move over them and then keep going.
Take time to enjoy the experience! Join a club, go on the trips the grad colleges offer, take in an athletic or arts event. There is so much to offer and time to play and relax will make you a better student overall…and grow you as a person.
You have four incredible years ahead of you!!! Princeton is an amazing place!
@PtonAlumnus Oh ok thanks! So I think from what the website says I can get actual credit for 2 calculus classes and 1 chemistry class. It says B.S.E. majors need to take 36 courses over 4 years so that’s an average of 4.5 classes per semester. If I use ap credit, does that mean in total from my 4 years I only need to take 33 classes instead of 36? 33 courses over 4 years would be almost 4 courses/semester which sounds much more appealing
@TKatana - I can’t figure out the answer to your question either. A cursory read suggests “no” because students can’t have a “light” load due to AP credits. But then it’s not clear to me if 4 classes is “light” because that’s what AB students are doing anyway. And they explicitly do say that seniors must take at least 3 classes per semester, so what’s that about? I agree that more than 4 classes sounds incredibly hard from my perspective as a parent who did an engineering degree in the Dark Ages.
At Princeton, AP “credit” refers only to the use of AP courses for eligibility to graduate in either 3 years (8 units of AP credit) or 3 1/2 years (4 units). If you look at the AP table, you can see the number of units given for a score of 4 or 5 on a particular AP exam. Google Princeton University AP credit reference table, and click on AP credit overview to see how the units are used to establish eligibility for advanced standing in BSE and AB degree candidates. If you designate Princeton on the 2016 AP exams, the College Board will send all your AP scores to Princeton for free. Princeton will determine eligibility for advanced standing and freshman who qualify will by notified by email this November.
AP scores may be used to fulfill the foreign language requirement for AB degree candidates and for placement in foreign language courses above the first introductory course. My daughter is AB, not BSE, but I believe that AP scores may be used for placement above the introductory level in courses required for BSE degree candidates. A student is NOT given course credit toward the degree for courses skipped in foreign language, science, or math.
Yes, BSE degree candidates need 36 courses to graduate (and AB degree candidates need 31). However, BSE students need to fulfill distribution requirements (as do AB degree candidates) and four of these courses may be taken pass/D/fail. Additionally there are some humanities courses that are ONLY pass/D/fail, such as Creative Writing Courses, and these courses DO NOT count as part of the four courses that can be electively taken as pass/D/fail. Btw, my daughter will take more than her minimum requirement of 31 courses- there are just so many great courses she wants to take!
The Freshman Academic Guide for the Class of 2020 will be coming in the mail soon, and will also be available online. Everything is in there in great detail!
A lot of academic support is available at Princeton and can be utilized at anytime, and not just when a student is struggling! Google the Princeton University McGraw Center for Teaching and Learning and the Princeton University Writing Center. McGraw offers workshops on preparation for midterms, preparation for finals, and more. A student can make an appointment at the Writing Center and bring their paper in progress to go over with a Writing Center fellow.
Seniors are allowed to take three courses each semester to allow more time for the independent work required for the degree during senior year. This is done by “banking” courses, or taking 5 courses more semesters than necessary, so only 6 courses are needed for the degree by senior year.
Just a note that for BSE students the senior year thesis work counts toward the student’s course load. From the Princeton website:
Course and Independent Work Requirements for Graduation
Except for those students who have been awarded a term or a year of advanced standing or who have been admitted to the University Scholar Program, all students must successfully complete the following course requirements:
A.B. Program. All A.B. students must successfully complete a minimum of 31 courses. Courses must be chosen in such a way as to meet the University general education requirements for A.B. students and the departmental requirements for the chosen field of concentration. In addition to 31 courses, all A.B. students must successfully complete departmental junior independent work, a senior thesis, and the departmental examination.
B.S.E. Program. All B.S.E. students must successfully complete a minimum of 36 courses. Courses must be chosen in such a way as to meet the University general education requirements for B.S.E. students and the departmental requirements for the chosen field of concentration. The independent work requirements for the B.S.E. program are set forth in the descriptions of the departmental programs of study. Independent work in the School of Engineering and Applied Science is awarded a course designation and counts toward the overall requirement of 36 courses.
Essentially, this means that for AB students, independent work (junior paper/senior thesis) is in addition to the 31 courses, while for BSE students the independent work counts as two course credits. As a senior, my son (who has now finished his thesis) is actually finding the entire year much lighter than the first three. I believe the inverse is true of many AB students.
@Cantiger I think I read for BSE it says we must take at least seven courses in the humanities and social sciences over our 8 semesters. So for those non-major courses we can use them to pursue certificates? I was interested in getting maybe an EE and/or ME certificate and something in economics or business.
Yes you may certainly do that provided you meet all the distribution requirements. It is certainly not unheard of for BSE students to do certificates in other areas.
What is advanced standing?
Some entering students have earned enough advanced placement credit to accelerate their progress toward graduation from Princeton. Every incoming student enters as a freshman. In some cases students use their AP credit to take one term off during their sophomore year.?? Others have enough AP credit to advance to the junior class after their first year at Princeton. Eligible students are notified by their residential college dean during November of their freshman year.
I think the OP is asking the question (thank you!) because the scenario of “advanced standing” is very vague. One web page says what AP “credits” are used for accelerated placement (only not graduation credit), yet the Advance Standing description says, “take a semester off” , " study abroad", “graduate early” as if graduation credits are being applied. Which is it? Graduation credit or not? AND what AP courses give those credits beyond the brief list given online?
The answer to this is a big red flag as my son could attend other universities, enter as a sophomore, skip many of the “Distribution Areas” that don’t pertain to his major, study abroad, take a reasonable course load and graduate in 4 years. THIS is why we research. With other Top 10 schools accepting AP credits toward graduation(as acceptable rigorous course material), I can only think that this is a tuition saving decision.
@TKatana I did read that AP credits may not be given for the Distribution Areas(specifically referring to BSE CS majors), so that would be any AP Govt&Poli, AP Psych, APUSH credits would not be accepted.
@CSinPA It is actually both. Advanced placement and advanced standing are two different things.
Advanced placement means you may place out of introductory level courses and into the next level. However it does not permit you to take a reduced course load. I will give a BSE example since that is the one I am most familiar with. If a student has taken AP Calc AB, the student may place out of Calculus 1 (Math 103) and start freshman fall directly in Calculus 2 (Math 104). However the student must still complete the 36 credits required by the engineering department, which will not include any credit for AP Calc AB. This is advanced placement.
Advanced standing is what you found above. Students who have enough AP credit may take a semester off or graduate in 3 years, depending on how many AP credits the student has. I know a student who did this in engineering. It is not common at Princeton but it is possible. The person I know entered as a freshman and then went to junior status second year. The reason a student does not enter Princeton as a sophomore has to do with the Writing Seminar requirement I believe. There is no AP credit to place out of writing sem. However a student may begin studying at whichever course level they are deemed prepared for. My son’s room mate is a math concentrator who took 3rd and 4th year level courses as a freshman.
Unfortunately I cannot answer your question regarding which credits are eligible for either of these areas, but if you contact Princeton directly I am sure they will be able to provide you with this information.
All students must fulfill distribution requirements at Princeton. I would certainly agree that if these are absolutely unacceptable to the student in question there are likely other schools better suited to that student. I disagree that it is a tuition saving decision. Princeton is philosophically geared toward broadly educated students who have studied not only in their immediate area of interest but in other areas as well. Other schools aim to have a sharper focus on a specific area for the student. These are simply different educational perspectives and your son will need to determine which suits him best.
“However the student must still complete the 36 credits required by the engineering department,”
“Take a semester off or graduate in 3 years”.
The website is unclear what qualifies a student for Advanced Standing (4-5 AP courses for a semester? 8-10 APs to graduate in 3 years?) although it appears to indicate 5 and 10, respectively with 4.5 avg credits required per semester For BSE students (36/8). If a student has 4 or 9 do they not receive advanced standing?
Most highly selective universities require humanities courses to graduate well-rounded students, however most others allow AP credit toward graduation for them (Tufts and Brown are the only other 2 that I found that are also so restrictive). No credit for History or at least 1 Literature or Arts is the most restrictive I’ve seen.
“Advanced placement only” without advanced standing (receiving graduation credit) makes little sense to me except for courses in a student’s major. I don’t believe most students would want to take 300-400 level science, math or language courses when s/he is majoring in another subject.
I would prefer to know my son’s Advanced Standing status (at least if 1 semester of credits are accepted from 10/11th APs) before making an admissions decision. November seems very delayed to inform students of such a significant status. I understand Princeton would not yet have 12th grade AP scores to grant credit for a 2nd semester).
Many students prefer to use AP credits so that they can advance more quickly into their major’s higher level courses. To spend 2 years repeating general distributional electives seems to hinder a students educational possibilities not broaden it further. However with the cost of education, I would prefer my son not just have control of the wheel, but for him to be in the driver’s seat. You’re right, different educational philosophical viewpoints.
Those two statements do not contradict each other because they are discussing two different scenarios. The first is regarding advanced placement. The second is regarding advanced standing. They are two different scenarios. I wish the wording were not so similar to create confusion, none the less that is what the two different statuses are called.
The point CSinPA brought up about having almost enough credits for advanced standing confused me too. So if I had 4 credits, I could receive credit for 1 semester of classes? But if I only have 3 credits, I couldn’t receive credits for any classes and would have to replace those 3 credits with higher level classes of which I skipped or other humanities courses? Also, if I were to skip a semester with 3 credits, I am not allowed to continue to stay for 4 years and spread my classes out? (I think princeton’s site says for bse students 4 credits is required for 1 semester advanced standing, not 5 like CSinPA said)
@TKatana I think you would be best served by contacting Princeton directly regarding your situation since I know general policy but they can speak directly to your questions as they relate to your courses. We found them to be incredibly helpful with anything we’ve needed and they will help you to find the best route to accomplish your academic goals.
