What are my chances at top liberal arts colleges?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1
  • 3.63 unweighted, 4.45 weighted
  • 1520 sat
  • big upward trend, 3.22 to 3.75 to 4.00
  • top 15ish% of class
  • IB diploma candidate// reason why weighted gpa is so high// very rigorous courseload
  • white middle-class male, connecticut
  • 4 years of running, qualifying for regionals 3/4 years, states one year
  • 3 years of debate team, competed at yale and columbia amongst other big name schools
  • founder and president of the young progressives club in my school
  • founder of a local food bank in my city, delivered groceries to low-income households once a week
  • 300+ volunteer hours at a local library
  • held job at ice cream place for 3 years
  • internship/fellowship with my local city representative
  • will start making video essays on politics on youtube over the summer, hoping that accrues a good amount of popularity
  • looking to double major in psych/philosophy

The reason my freshman grades were so poor was because of a bit of trouble I encountered in a new school environment. I attended public school my entire education career leading up to freshman year. My districted public school was notorious for being unsafe and “ghetto” per se. My parents decided to put me into a catholic school, believing it was the better alternative. There, I was bullied and harassed constantly, until one day I snapped and got into a fight after hearing the news that the same group of kids that were bullying me, were hazing and leaking embarrassing photos of another kid in my class (he left two weeks after the photos were leaked.). I was suspended for two days. With that being said, I was still able to maintain a decentish gpa. My sophomore year I went to the public school my parents were hesitant to send me to at first, where I thrived. I am looking to apply to some of the better liberal arts colleges in the country,
Safeties: whitman, oberlin, brandeis
Targets:colorado college, reed, hamilton, carleton, pitzer, wesleyan, vassar
Reaches: amherst, tufts, williams
What do you guys think? Where do I have the best and worst chances of getting in with the colleges I listed? Thanks so much in advance.

2

I think you have a list of great schools, but it’s ambitious. Unless your school’s Naviance tells you different I would move your match list to the reach column and your safety list to the match column. You should make sure you have a safe safety you’d be okay with attending. Look for schools with rolling admission and/or automatic or almost auto admission. Apply EA to a couple of U Denver or College of Charleston types of school. I would also add some low matches, schools that accept 60-80% of students. Hobart and WS, Furman, Wheaton, Beloit, Juniata, etc. Look at the US News 50-100.

3

Your list has no safeties. All of your matches are reaches, especially Carleton and Wesleyan. I’d say Whitman, which is a wonderful school, is the only match on your list.

Yes, your upward trend will be noted, and being a male will help, but that’s a very ambitious list.

I think Hamilton and Williams are odd choices compared with all the others on your list. They are pretty preppy and lean conservative, especially Hamilton. How about Kenyon and Grinnell? Those are amazing schools, certainly fall more in line with Vassar, Carleton and Amherst. They have great reputations and are academically rigorous, but are known for being a little forgiving with students such as yourself. I’m really surprised they not on your list, but they are both reaches.

Safeties for you, based on the schools you’ve listed, might be Lewis and Clark, Clark U, Juniata, and Goucher. Look at the CTCL list. Consider some of the Midwest LACs too, which might offer merit money. Kalamazoo and Earlham.

This is a more accurate list, IMO:

(? Goucher, Clark U, Lewis and Clark: Safe)
Whitman: Match
Brandeis, Oberlin, Pitzer, Reed, Colorado: Reach
Amherst, Tufts, Wesleyan, Carleton, Vassar, Hamilton, Williams: High reach

Clearly, that’s way too many reaches, so I suggest you dig a little deeper and seriously consider which colleges you see yourself at. The feeling I get from your list is that you like a perhaps slightly arty, slightly quirky, but still intellectual vibe. Based on that, I suggest you eliminate Tufts, Hamilton, Williams, Colorado, Brandeis and maybe Pitzer. Reed is seriously intellectual and very intense. Are you looking for that environment?

Anyway, back to match schools. You might consider adding Dickinson, St. Olaf, College of Wooster, Trinity in CT, and Connecticut College. Of those, I’d suggest looking especially at Conn College more deeply. I really like Whitman though, and I think that’s a great choice for you.

As an aside, my D just spend a semester abroad with kids from several of the colleges on your list. She LOVED the three Whitman students. One of the Whitman students was a close friend, majoring in physics. That student is already back in her study abroad country, working at a power plant for the summer. Whitman kids are smart, ambitious, and know how to have fun.

Good luck, and come back to keep us updated.

4

Agree with @Sue22 that Oberlin and Brandeis are matches, not safeties. Whitman is probably pretty safe, but unless you have high confidence that you would be genuinely happy to go there, I would look for a couple more likelies (UVt, and UNC-A are good usual suspects for students who like the other colleges that you list). Based on the schools that you have picked so far, I don’t think that Furman would be your cup of tea.

Colorado College, Reed, Carleton look like good matches, with Hamilton and Vassar higher matches and Wesleyan and Pitzer looking more like reaches. The last two admissions rounds in particular have seen a surprising number of students with strong stats getting turned down at schools for which they were entirely credible candidates. Remember that LACs build classes, so perceived fit matters - it’s not just your stats. When you look at Naviance and see where you fit in the spread of outcomes, be sure to check and see if there are outliers on the high end. Outliers accepted from the low end tend to have hooks; outliers rejected from the high end can mean that fit has trumped stats, which is worth bearing in mind when considering your own odds.

In that vein, spend some time over the summer getting to know those schools. I think it would be unusual for the same student to love both Colorado College and Vassar, or Pitzer and Tufts for example.

Do you need financial aid? For some of those schools that will matter.

5

@Lindagaf Thanks, your analysis of what I want in a college is entirely accurate. Given that, I will probably look further into hamilton, tufts, williams, etc, to better analyze how I would fit there. I understand where you’re coming from with the matches and reaches, but I placed my colleges into the three categories based on what my naviance scattergram and guidance counselor have indicated. Anyways, what do you think I can do to improve my chances at those “reach” and “high reach” schools?

6

@Sue22 Thanks! Will def look into those safeties listed.

7

@collegemom3717 thanks!

8

Saying in Sept that you spent the summer making political video essays that had X number of views on YouTube is not going to impress an AO. Even if it’s a million.

(well, maybe if it’s a million, b/c a student whose video essays on politics get that many views on youtube over the summer might be the next Milo Wagner (aka Yiannopoulos)…)

9

@anonuser123 – Great list of schools–my child’s tentative list includes 4 of your initial 13–and I see some great suggestions of additional schools emerging on this thread.

I am concerned about one thing you mentioned: is that two day suspension going to show up on your permanent record? Getting into a fight is going to be a red flag at some schools. (No judgment from me…I just think you need to think this through and make sure you have a good list of backup options.)

On a more positive note: how good are your times at running? Are you planning to continue running in college? If you are, reaching out to coaches would be a great idea!

10

Vassar, with a 35% acceptance rate for male applicants, might serve as a less challenging admit for you than it might otherwise appear.

Regarding your list in general, you’ve landed on half of the schools included in this Forbes article, which might on some level support the inclusion of these colleges from your group: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2017/04/26/10-expensive-colleges-worth-every-penny-2017/.

11

I have a slightly different perspective.

First, the value of an IB diploma is immense–don’t undervalue it. Will it make a difference at some of those schools? Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows? The “holistic” application review that is so popular now is a double-edged sword; it provides no guidance or certainty and as a result you have no idea what will catch their interest. I’m going to paste something I’ve told other IB students in the past (FTR, my daughter is an IB student, so I have thought about this a bit):

The IB program is universally considered the gold standard for rigor and many, many schools have a clear preference for students that earn the IB diploma. Roughly ten years ago a self-reported study was performed by IBO that reveals some really amazing data about the admission rates for IB students vs all applicants for about 150 different colleges and universities. It’s pretty much disappeared from the web, but I stumbled on it here: https://www.rjuhsd.us/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&ModuleInstanceID=13340&ViewID=7b97f7ed-8e5e-4120-848f-a8b4987d588f&RenderLoc=0&FlexDataID=16706&PageID=7234. Click the link, and it is the middle document on the following page.

It is astonishing just how much of a preference many schools give (gave) to IB diploma candidates. The caveat, of course, (besides being self-reported data), is that as far as I can tell this study was performed ten years ago (you can tell by the overall admission rates among the Ivies, which is much lower now) and there’s no guarantee that some of these schools still give a preference, or that the preference is the same as it was. There hasn’t been another such study since, as far as I can tell.

Still, my recommendation is to peruse this list and see whether the schools you’re interested in you showed a preference. It’s also a good resource to find other schools to consider that are in your range score-wise that love (or loved, I guess) IB students.

I think you have a good shot at Oberlin. Here are some other liberal arts schools that come to mind that may be in your wheelhouse: Richmond, Lafayette, Bates, Skidmore, Union, Bard. Maybe Bennington. Rhodes. Kenyon. Denison. These may not be “safeties”–I don’t know what a safety is anymore–but I would consider them “probables,” a level between “safety” and “match.”

Wear your IB status proudly–it really is worth more than folks who are unfamiliar with it realize. How much more? No idea, not in today’s environment. But you’ve proven to these schools that you can handle a heavy workload and won’t drop out, so they will get four years of tuition from you and be able to check the box for “graduated on time.”

The deciding factor will be your essays. Don’t treat them as an afterthought. Convince the schools that you would be a strong addition to their communities.

Also, it’s not a liberal arts school, but the University of Rochester actively recruits IB students.

Best of luck!

12

@Lindagaf Williams is no more preppy than Amherst, and the student body is very liberal. Those generalizations are very inaccurate.

13

You can improve your chances by maintaining high grades in tough courses, continuing to pursue your genuine interests outside of school hours, and showing genuine interest at schools such as Kenyon, Grinnell, Whitman, Oberlin and any of the other colleges you list that consider interest. Look at each college’s CDS, section C7, because it will tell you what they prioritize. Vassar, Carleton, and Wesleyan say they do not consider interest.

Not that you need more reaches, but you can also consider Bates, which might have the vibe you seek. I only say that because my kid, who was looking for a similar feel, applied to or visited many of the colleges you mention in your initial post. She was accepted at Oberlin, Kenyon, and Whitman. She’s at Bates and loves it.

I do not agree at all that Carleton is a match. This year, it admitted just over 500 from over 7000 applicants. Your school’s Naviance is a useful tool, but as more students apply to more colleges, it’s good to err on the side of caution. My opinion is that ANY school with an acceptance rate hovering around 20% or lower is a reach for all. Yes, you will likely get into a few of these schools, but your freshman year will make things a little more uncertain.

Personally, I would not go into any detail about what happened at the private school, unless it involved a legal issue that must be disclosed. It is going to be obvious from your transcript that you didn’t do well at the private school and thereafter did much better at the public school. Long explanations of what went wrong sound like excuses, to colleges at least. They will all be more interested in your upward trend. If you feel this information is very important, it’s much better if it is addressed by your current guidance counselor, if at all.

@writingpumpkin03 , the Williams kids I know seem decidedly more preppy than the Amherst kids I know. A generalization is just that. All of these colleges will have liberal-minded students, certainly at least socially liberal. Some more so than others.

@merc81 , agree re Vassar. Also agree with @RayManta about IB diploma being helpful.

14

I think if you write your essay about your transition to catholic school, issues there, and transition back, that will help you.

15

Williams tends to be particularly appealing to students from boarding schools, however. Though whether this makes Williams preppy or not can be subject to interpretation.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-cafe/2125130-groton-like-colleges-p1.html

16

Your safeties are not sure things by a long shot. Even if you can fully afford them. Look for some true safety schools

17

@RayManta Thanks! I will definitely look into skidmore, richmond, union and bard. Do you think it would be worth it to talk about my catholic school experience/ suspension in one of my essays, kind of killing two birds with one school; addressing my suspension while talking about an adversity?

18

@EganAg yea that’s what I was thinking about doing.

19

Hmmm, I’m not so sure I’d write about a negative thing. Personally, I would ignore the freshman year incident, if possible. Why draw attention to something negative, when you have all this positive stuff going for you? The adversity essay is very common. It might be a fine topic, but you should ensure that your essay shows aspects of your personality that will enable them to see you on their campus. It’s about getting an insight into who you are.

20

@anonuser123 - My first question before reading the comments was “can you run in college”?

I wouldn’t argue with the conservative tone in the commentary (admissions everywhere is a crap shoot), but your story, the trajectory of your performance, and the potential to run at school I think would be very appealing to the schools listed.

My advice would be to get to the schools if possible. Interview. If you can’t get to the schools, research when the admissions counselor for your region will be local and attend sessions if possible. Introduce yourself, get a business card…send a follow-up note with questions / thank you.

Your SAT is going to help every school listed raise their averages.

A lot of the folks in this thread have been here for a while and know the realities of the process, and they have offered good advice…but don’t let the need for caution discourage you from achieving what’s possible. You have a little over 6 months left, so plan your attack and engage with the schools you want to attend.

Edit: be careful with political posting.