What Are My Chances ? International Student

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Good morning everyone ! I am a high school international student born in Italy but living in France since 2009. I have always been attracted by travelling all around the world and draw advantage upon each part of it : following this reasoning, there is no doubt that the USA would be the best place for me to graduate. Furthermore, my other passion has always been computer science and engineering : when I was in the equivalent of 6th grade, I started learning how to code and since then I’ve never stopped exploring new technologies and acquiring new skills in that field. That being said, I am planning to apply next year to a few prestigious American colleges (I forgot to mention that I am in junior year in France).

As many international students, my case is very particular and I struggle to find useful advice on the Internet or in my school (that is not used to international applications) and that’s why I would like you to help me estimate my chances of getting into the greatest American colleges (MIT, Stanford, …) or share tips that could help me improve my resume. So let me introduce myself :

I am an Italian student born in Rome in late 2000. As far as I can remember I have always loved school and learning new things and because of that passion I managed each year to get excellent scores and be the first of my class. I moved to Chamonix, France (that’s under the Mt Blanc, the highest mountain in Europe) in 2009. There I became bilingual in only 3 months and had to adapt to a whole new atmosphere because when I came there I barely spoke a few basic words in French. After a trimester of adaptation, I really enjoyed my new environment and managed again to excel at school and be once again the first of my class. Aside from studying, I had no time to get bored because I was a great skier (I really love that sport) and that’s also the years were I begun coding and being interested in computer science. In 7th grade, I realized I wasn’t challenged enough in school and that’s when I decided to “jump” a grade. My school asked me to complete subject tests and tested for 3 days my integration in what was going to be my new 8th grade class : I managed to achieve what I wanted. Even if I had to study much more since I had to catch up a lot of work, I kept spending my free time coding or skiing at a competitive level. Always being first of my class (and of my school), I passed my Brevet des Collèges in 9th grade (that’s the equivalent of the GCSE in France and that’s in 9th grade because in France high school begins in 10th grade and only lasts 3 years) with the best possible grade (grades are over 20 in France and an A+ corresponds to a 16/20) and I got 18/20 as an average and especially a 19/20 in maths that has always been my favorite subject. This year, I also won a math competition organized by my school and I got a first working experience (only a week because I was 14) as a trainee in a web development company.

For high school (10th grade), I moved to a bigger city because there were no quality high schools around there. I enrolled in one of the best private high schools of the south of France and there I switched to tennis (hard to continue skiing when you’re next to the sea :wink: ) at a pre competitive level. I got good scores also there but this time I was the second of my thirty-two students class. This year (11th grade) I chose to enroll in the scientific section of my high school (in France in 11th grade you have to choose a type of section such as scientific, economic, …) where we have a lot of maths, physics and biology. There I started wondering about America and I had the chance of spending 2 quarters in a full American private high school (Immaculata La Salle in Miami) as a special student : I got all the classic American junior courses but I could choose 3 STEM courses : obviously I chose programming, engineering and robotics. There I also enrolled in the robotics club of the school where we built a robot for the First Tech Challenge of 2016 (our team is Bosco’s Bots and was ranked 8/150 in Floride when I left). In America, I expected to struggle but it was the exact opposite : the courses were extremely interesting and I got A+ in all of them and the diploma of High Honors of the school. Since January, I’m back in France more excited than ever to go back in America but this time as a full time pre graduate student. I will receive my official grade reports in two weeks but I’m pretty sure to be the first of my class this years with a very good average (17/20). Finally, I have been accepted this summer in a Stanford pre-collegiate summer institutes course in robot programming (we had real selections with recommendation letters and grades needed).

If someone had to courage to read everything, now you understand when I said my case was very specific !
Well now let’s talk shrink information and talk about things you are more used to : in order to get into colleges, I obviously need to pass on my own the SAT and two SAT subject tests (maths algebra II and physics). I am already preparing and I will attend those tests in may : I got all 700+ scores on the first practice tests. I also may need the TOEFL but that is not a big deal because I am almost trilingual and I already got the CAE from Cambridge. That being said, I also know that such prestigious colleges want to see students involved in challenging activities such as AP classes : the problem is that that doesn’t exist in France (except the fact I chose the scientific section and next year I will enroll in the most advanced math class that is available). Also I still got strong relations with my Miami high school teachers and guidance office that promised to help me a bit if needed next year.

Finally I put here all my skills, activities and courses I’ve taken since 6th grade :

Sports : skiing (competitive), tennis (pre competitive), fencing (competitive)
Computer languages : HTML5, CSS3, PHP5, Java, Swift 2
Leadership : representative of my class in 7th grade, head coder of the robotic club in Miami
Courses I have in France this year : maths, physics, biology, french, english, spanish, history and geography, science in english
Summer programs : Stanford Pre Collegiate Summer Institutes in Robot Programming
Courses I’ve taken in Miami : English III, Spanish Speaker III, Java Programming, Robotics, Engineering
Languages I speak : French (fluent), Italian (fluent), English (fluent), Spanish (intermediate)
Recommendation letters I already got : one from my engineering teacher in Miami, one from the programming teacher and one from the headmaster of the school here in France
Certifications I got : KET, FCE and CAE from Cambridge, Brevet (french GCSE) with 18/20 average, High Honors from Miami High School
My averages (16/20 is an A+) : 9th grade 17,5 ; 10th grade 17,2 ; this year 17 for the moment
My rank : always 1 except last year 2

So what do you think I got my chances to make my way to prestigious American colleges ? What can I do to improve my resume ?

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How much can you afford to pay will be the most important factor in selecting schools $$$$?

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A few comments:

– schools don’t care about your classes/accomplishments before high school

– summer programs at elite schools USUALLY don’t give you much of an advantage in elite university admissions (I say “usually” because there are exceptions, but I’m not sure about the robotics one at Stanford)

– you’re obviously an excellent student, but to be a realistic candidate for elite schools your SATs must be excellent.

– for elite schools, ECs matter. You have the sports, which is good. Have you considered any French/European Olympiads? Those always look good for the Ivies, MIT, Stanford, etc. The Ivies also like evidence of “leadership.”

– sadly, the biggest criteria to study in the US is money. If you’re aiming for elite schools and need extensive financial aid, it’s an uphill battle. Have a back up plan in France, just in case you don’t receive enough financial aid to attend an American school.

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Ok so first thanks for your very quick responses. I’ve understood that the Summer Program at Stanford won’t help me much getting in colleges (it’s clearly written on their website) but I think it’s won’t hurt either : I just see it as a great way of spending 3 weeks this summer doing something I like showing that computer science is a real passion for me. Furthermore, I’ve red that we will visit the campus and have a few conferences done by a representative from the Stanford Office of Undergraduate Admissions and I think that will be great.

Secondly, I’ve also seen statistics on the SAT and I will be excellent scores to have a chance : I planned two SAT one in May and another in October so I can get two scores and superstore them. The SAT doesn’t look very hard to me except from some specific math questions on things we don’t see in the French program but I’m working on this. The more problematic one for me is clearly the physics subject test because it is completely different from what we do here and I only have a few months to learn everything. What do you think are competitive SAT scores (I only know the 700+ limit) ? And so the fact I don’t have APs is not a big deal ?

Then what are ECs ? I understand from what you say that they’re kind of sports Olympiads but can you explain a bit more because it’s the first time I hear that ?

Last but not least at all, I know money is a big deal in America (the tuitions are like 4 times more expensive that in France …) ! If I want to attend a prestigious college in America I will need for sure some form of financial help but I need for that to look up more in details the helps policies of the colleges I’m interested in because some of them (I’m thinking about MIT for example) have special policies for international students (almost every taken international is given money). Anyway you’re right I need a backup plan in France but I’m already thinking about it.

Finally what do you think those colleges consider as “leadership” (I mean what are the kinds of things they like to see about leadership) ? You’ve said only high school achievements count so my 7th grade class leadership doesn’t count so what I can I dot to improve that point ?

Anyway, thanks everybody

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Plan to take SAT Subjects in Italian and another subject - what about chemistry? June is a good time for that.
(with your first SAT Reasoning in May - but before you register, take a full practice test for both the new SAT and the ACT, then focus on the one you “feel” best.
Math2 and Physics are better taken during TS, since you won’t study the trig till 2nd term and you don’t really study “real” physics in 1S until the 3rd term, whereas most of the Fall will be dedicated to Physics.

EC’s = extra curricular activities. Can be building robots or playing the flute. What matters is being good at it. Leadership means “being more than a member”. Could be team captain, science fair winner, organizer of a big volunteering drive…
Run the NPC on Vassar, MIT, and HarveyMudd to have an idea of various amounts your parents would be expected to pay.
Other universities have scholarships for stats, such as Truman State or University of Alabama-Tuscaloosa.
Learn about Honors colleges (UAlabama, Tulane, ASU Barrett would be good examples).

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@lorpugliese AP’s certainly do help with submission because colleges tend to look at class rigor and they help you take off some money. If your school didn’t offer AP or IB classes then I wouldn’t worry about it.

Finally what do you think those colleges consider as “leadership” Leadership, as in like Captain of the soccer team, in a leadership class, president of some kind of club, etc.

Then what are ECs ECs (Extra Curriculars) are anything that you do after school (Not like watching TV or going on the internet), but like how you said you did programming, as well as any sports, clubs, volunteer work… just anything that will make you stand out more.

What do you think are competitive SAT scores (I only know the 700+ limit) The SAT has been redesigned for 2016 and is out of 1600. The subcategories are on a scale of 200 to 800 (Reading and writing & math), and the essay is on a scale of 2 to 8. I’m not sure about what a competitive score is, so I’ll leave that to someone else.

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Thanks for all your updates ! For the SAT, I’ve already started to practice by taking exams and looking at my timer if I’m on time. For the subject tests, I will have to take two of them : Math Level 1 (I tried practicing for Math Level 2 but I couldn’t understand anything because, as you said, we will do everything next year) and Physics (because when I asked to the Miami guidance office they recommended me to do this one because it is the one that the Ivies prefer). I will take the SAT and the Math Level 1 in may and all of them again + the physics one in october (I will soon take lessons with an engineer that will teach me physics for the SAT so I need time and may is way too early). Actually your idea of taking an additional italian SAT Subject Test is very interesting and I will seriously think about it (as the always say in their videos, it is showing that I challenge myself). I only got one question : schools like MIT expect two science subject tests but if I also do an italian one will they accept 3 of them ?

Then thanks for the EC and the leadership explanation : the Stanford Proramming Program will be probably considered as one then and that’s, I believe, a good point. For leadership, I was the head coder of my robotic team in Miami but I suppose it’s not enough so I’ll try figure something out to strengthen this point. Thanks for everything and if you have other advices don’t hesitate to share them !

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Check out your inbox.
Dont take Math1. Regardless of score… It’s ridiculous - akin to someone going “OMG j’ai eu 15au brevet je vais faire polytechnique”.
You have to wait till you’ve covered trigonometry. The American curriculum is very different from the French one, where calculus is introduced earlier and you’ll be doing proof-based math next year, along with algorithms and discrete math, things that aren’t introduced in regular high schools in the US, whereas American students spend almost an entire year dealing with trigonometry-related questions. Also, statistics/probability is a separate class here which not all students take, although you’ll encounter some questions on the test.
Unless you feel able to learn one term’s worth of trig by June, don’t plan on taking that test then.
As for other subject tests, of course they’re important: they show you aren’t just a math nerd and allow you to distinguish yourself among the thousands upon thousands who’ll have scored perfect 800’s in math&science tests.
BTW, the physics test isn’t “preferred”, but especially not if you’re in 1S and mostly have covered chemistry… Your best bet is to schedule Italian and chemistry (or bio ?) in June, and physics and mAth2 next year.
Please understand that without a victory in kangaroo math, maths en jeans, concours général in two subjects, etc, your odds are virtually nil for MIT. However there are lots of excellent stem programs that, unlike France’s, don’t emphasize theoretical math before all. Look for them.

Focusing on MIT only is akin to counting on the lottery as a career plan. You have to buy a Fiske guide and/or a Princeton Review’s best colleges and start reading.
Finally, don’t worry about AP’s. The French bacc has an excellent reputation in the US. Focus on keeping up the good work, doing well in your bac de premiere , and look for ec’s.
By the way, no the Stanford summer program Won’t help - it only connotes "upper middle class kid whose parents pay for him to do something " which is the opposite of leadership. Not to say it’ll be pointless - it’ll be good for your English and it’ll likely impress French schools, but it won’t help college admissions in itself (outside of improving your English.)

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Well I see you know France pretty well ! It’s obvious that Math Level 2 would be better and especially for high-end high schools such as the ones I’m aiming at but actually my main problem at the moment is time ! Applicants (and especially international ones like me) are asked to complete applications by november for early or january for regular and test material should be ready by then. Considering this and because I want to apply early, this leave me two SAT tries until then : the normal SAT is pretty easy and it won’t be a problem to take it in may. The more difficult point is SAT Subject Tests because it’s things I’m not used to in the French program and that are speed-based (50 questions in 60 minutes) and that’s the opposite of the French system. I will apply for computer science so maths and physics are especially important. As you said, I will be studying things from the American system in TS and that’s too late for each one of the two SAT iterations. Then you understand why Math Level 2 is not a good option for me : everywhere on forums and guidance offices they say that there is no difference between them expect from the score you will get (750+ is competitive) so I understand your reasoning but it just doesn’t apply to me. I will learn the things you evoke later during the year and if needed I can study during summer. Then I take your point about chemistry and physics but I believe physics is more important for a future computer science graduate than chemistry : I will take classes about it and if it really is too hard I can switch to chemistry as you say. The Italian SAT subject test will be an extra for me because schools want two SCIENCE subject tests (one in math and another in science).
You ensure me by saying that the Bac has a good reputation in America ! Actually because I see you know the Kangaroo I actually participated 4 years ago and I was in the French 10 % but I didn’t talk about it because it is from a previous period than High School. In a week I’m also participating in a mathematic Olympiad and I hope to get a good rank. When I was talking about Stanford I meant it as a good ec activity not a leadership one. The schools I’m aiming are the best ones for computer science, based on recent stats and magazines and that’s how I selected them. Finally even if I would prefer to go to America for college it’s not an obligation for me and so if I don’t get in very good American universities I will stay in France and come afterwards. Anyway thanks for all your advices and keep sharing !

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How did the Math Olympiad go?

There’ll be SAT tests in May, June, probably August, and October
Schedule Math 2 for October. (with november for a retake if necessary - November tests are typically okay).
Yes there’s a huge difference between Math1 and Math2: Math1 is for weak math students who somehow still take subject tests. The curve is wicked and applying to MIT with Math1 is NOT a good idea, regardless of score, because, what business do you have applying to MIT if you can’t even take Math2 which American applicants could take in 10th grade?
It’s like doing a bac L and getting 18 in math… still no way you’re admitted to l’X.
And you should take both Physics and Chemistry if possible, plus a humanities subject, or math2, physics, and your LV2 or a humanities subject - having 3-4 tests for competitive international applicants is common, and scores of 750+ is expected. There’s a difference between the minimum they want (2 science subject tests) and what is competitive.

Order the Fiske Guide or Princeton Review’s Best Colleges, then start reading.

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Hey there sorry for my recent absence but I’ve really been busy this last month. A few updates on my actual situation : first I got the results of the Math Olympiad and I am in the top 10 on my regional academy and I will therefore receive a prize in June. Furthermore, I have been accepted to become a “french ambassador” in California (I will basically be the representative youngster in California, and California in particular is because of my Stanford’s acceptance) for an important association of my city. Except from this everything goes right and I will attend my first SAT in two weeks :wink: thanks for your comments and keep sharing