What are my chances?

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
1

<p>I am a white female from Virginia, currently a junior.</p>

<p>Let's say i apply W&M early decision.</p>

<p>2000 SAT
3.9 weighted GPA, 3.75 unweighted</p>

<p>Courses:</p>

<p>8th grade-
-Algebra 1 Honors</p>

<p>Freshman-
-Honors English
-Honors Biology
-Honors Algebra 2
-Honors History
-German 1</p>

<p>Sophmore-
-AP World History
-Geometry
-Chemistry
-Honors English
-German 2
-Computer Graphics 1</p>

<p>Junior-
-AP Psychology
-Geosystems Honors
-AP Language and Comp
-Precalc
-History
-German 3
-Computer Graphics 2</p>

<p>Senior-
-AP Statistics
-AP Enviro
-AP Government
-AP Literature
-German 4
-Computer Graphics 3</p>

<p>Extra Curriculars:
-Girl Scout Gold Award recipient
-National Honors Society member (all 4 years, applying for an officer position)
-National English Honors Society member (2 years, officer position senior year)
-National German Honors Society member (2 years, applying for officer position)
-Colorguard member (all 4 years, trying out for senior captain)
-500+ hours community service with church
-Various other small awards such as winning small essay contests at regional or district levels, some other small EC participations- these are the main ones</p>

<p>Thank you so much for your time.</p>

2

<p>Glad to hear you’re interested in W&M. We always tell students that if you’re interested you should apply because no one is automatically accepted or denied but students should also be cautiously optimistic when applying to highly selective schools like W&M (we admit only 1/3 of those who apply).</p>

<p>We do have a few course recommendations for you. We’d advise you take AP Calculus over AP Statistics and either physics or AP Chem or AP Bio over AP Enviro. We see AP Calculus, physics, and the fourth year of a single foreign language as benchmarks of the most challenging high school curriculum and right now you plan to take only one of the three courses we recommend. A 3.9 GPA from Fairfax County is certainly a good but it’s not among the top GPAs at the school. It will likely be beneficial for you to send in first semester grades, especially if you’re on an upward grade trend.</p>

<p>When we review SATs we still look mainly at Critical Reading and Math so we’re not sure what your score is on the 1600-point scale. The middle 50% range is 1280-1430. If you’ve taken it only once, we always think it can’t hurt to try again since we look at your best score.</p>

<p>Glad to see you’re applying for several officer/leadership positions. That’s a great way to distinguish yourself from the pack as far as extracurricular activities are concerned.</p>

<p>We’d also recommend that you come to campus this summer for an interview ([William</a> & Mary - Summer Interviews](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/admission/interview]William”>http://www.wm.edu/admission/interview)). You’re not too far away to come for the day and it’s a great way to put your personality into the application.</p>

<p>Applying ED, if W&M is your top choice, is also great. It’s a pool of only 1100 as opposed to our overall pool of 13,000 so it’s easier for any applicant to stand out plus we appreciate students who see W&M as their top choice.</p>

<p>For more on our process and any applicant’s chances, check out our Admit It! Blog on the subject ([W&M</a> Blogs Chance Me](<a href=“http://blogs.wm.edu/2010/12/14/chance-me/]W&M”>http://blogs.wm.edu/2010/12/14/chance-me/))</p>

3

<p>For what it’s worth, our youngest daughter, also in state, applied to William and Mary with virtually identical test scores and GPA to yours. She did not apply ED, though, as W&M was never at the top of her list. Her course load was also very similar to yours, although maybe just a little closer to what W&M Admissions says it looks for (she did take physics junior year and took Spanish through the AP level, but like you elected AP Stat and AP Environmental senior year instead of AP Calc or Ap Chem/Bio).</p>

<p>She was waitlisted, which was just fine as W&M was, again, never near the top of her list. Having said that, we do wonder (as much as I know this will irk W&M Admissions), whether the outcome might have been different had she been a boy applying instead of a girl. We’re also puzzled that W&M insists on the one hand that its admissions process is “holistic” while on the other hand it appears so formulaic in course preferences. Why, for example, is it a crime for an applicant who clearly is not interested in being a science major in college to skip AP Calc? One high school class does not a challenging high school curriculum make.</p>

4

<p>W&M likes well rounded students. AP Calc is the benchmark class in mathematics for top students. They want it for the same reason they want Physics instead of environmental science, even if you are never again going to go near a science class.</p>

<p>that said, there are people accepted that haven’t taken calculus.</p>

<p>I don’t see why you need to continually bash the male population on this site with unfounded accusations, either.</p>

<p>It’s nice of you to go out of your way, multiple times, to explain that W&M was not your daughter’s top choice, and then try to hurl your insults.</p>

5

<p>I don’t see how she insulted the college in any way. I think you’re taking things a bit out of proportion.</p>

6

<p>We do not require any classes for admission nor do we apply any mathematical formula to our process (it’s not as if students who take AP Calc get 5 points and those who don’t get fewer). We just recommend courses that we think are benchmarks of the most challenging high school courses.</p>

<p>Additionally, as W&M is a liberal arts university and students will take classes across the curriculum we want to see that students are capable of being successful in courses outside their area of interest. All students at W&M, regardless of major, will be required to take some math and science, some English, some history, etc. And because we do not admit students based on intended major and because intended major could easily change, we look for all applicants to have strong schedules across the curriculum.</p>

<p>Remember too, our process isn’t just about academic criteria. Non-academic criteria (extracurricular activities, letters of recommendation, essays, optional materials, personal backgrounds and talents, etc.) play an equal part in our process. If we admitted students based soley on whether they met our academic benchmarks, we’d way overenroll the class. So it’s not enough to meet our academic benchmarks. Our applicant pool is so strong that really great students don’t always get admitted. That’s the downside to selective admision for sure.</p>

<p>novaparent, we do understand your concerns about male and women. It’s a very hot topic in higher education at the moment. We do our best to manage what’s in the best interests of W&M, the class, and the individual applicant. That’s really all we can do to ensure that we remain the dynamic community we are but still ensure that we are admitting the most qualified students.</p>

7

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<p>Hautclere, pretty sure soccerguy was addressing novaparent, not the OP - novaparent has no connection with W&M, other than a long history of periodically appearing here to make snarky remarks about W&M’s admissions policies, most commonly to make sly assertions about how the school discriminates against females, often revealed to be shorthand for “admitting academically inferior males”, which soccerguy takes particular offense at, being a male who attended W&M.</p>

<p>I know, it can be hard to tell these things without a program … ;)</p>

8

<p>Hauteclere…</p>

<p>this is not novaparent’s first post on this message board bashing the male population at W&M. It’s tiring. And insulting (to me and thousands of other students and alums). And serves no purpose.</p>

<p>Squiddy pretty much covered it. I have no issues with the OP. They just made a posting asking about W&M, and then novaparent barges on in to throw insults like this is an elementary school playground.</p>

9

<p>Soccerguy, with all due respect, saying that “we do wonder if the outcome might have been different had she been a boy” is hardly hurling an “insult” at anyone, and if you can only respond by getting all huffy puffy and insulting yourself then you didn’t get very much out of your William and Mary education. After all, it’s not like I’m a lone and crazy voice on this issue – as W&M Admissions said in response to my post, “we do understand [the] concerns about male and women. It’s a very hot topic in higher education at the moment.” And there’s also no denying that, rightly or wrongly, William and Mary (and its glaring discrepency in admit rates for boys versus girls) is often one of the first schools mentioned in articles on the subject. Here, for example, is a recent article on the subject:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/quotas-everyone-ignores_554831.html[/url]”>http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/quotas-everyone-ignores_554831.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Under these circumstances, it’s hardly unreasonable, then again “insulting,” to “wonder” aloud how gender is taken into acccount in W&M admissions – and it’s not “bashing” the male population to do it. To the contrary, it’s entirely reasonable to suggest to the OP that the numbers suggest that being a woman isn’t exactly a mark in favor of a William and Mary applicant. And note that W&M Admissions – unlike you – isn’t exactly jumping up and down and vehemently disagreeing with me.</p>

<p>In short, grow up, respond intelligently if you need to respond at all, and please stop taking this so personally. It isn’t meant to be.</p>

<p>As for Squiddy, I most certainly do have a connection to William and Mary – I’m a Virginia tax payer who also has had more than one child apply to the school. I have every right to offer a respectful opinion, and that’s what I’ve done here.</p>

10

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<p>Oh, I’m sorry - was there an opinion in there? I guess I skimmed over it, I was kind of assuming you were beating that same dead horse you’ve been beating for the last several years, trying to somehow “prove” that W&M “discriminates against females”, even though you yourself say your kids only applied there, but weren’t interested in attending. </p>

<p>In any event, I’m sure the $2 in taxes you paid this year to support W&M was greatly appreciated - but if you want a refund, I’m sure your representative / Senator would be happy to hear from you in excruciating detail on your suspicions - I wouldn’t be surprised if they reimburse you on the spot - I know I would.</p>

11

<p>While I love W&M and ultimately chose to attend there, I think it’s worth noting that there is a major discrepancy in the acceptance rate between males and females at the College. You can check out W&M’s common data set from last year if you don’t believe me (acceptance rates are in section C) [William</a> & Mary - Common Data Set](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/offices/iae/institutional_research_reporting/cds/index.php]William”>http://www.wm.edu/offices/iae/institutional_research_reporting/cds/index.php). In 2010 the acceptance rate for females was just over 27%; it was 39% for males. It seems to me that NovaParent has a valid point that’s worth discussing.</p>

12

<p>novaparent - I didn’t take your post in this thread in a vacuum. I know why you post on this site: to antagonize other people. You are successful. You essentially posted “my daughter didn’t make it, but if she was a boy, she would have been accepted, since the males are less competitive applicants.”</p>

<p>I did not insult myself. You are an internet ■■■■■. You are not “wondering out loud”… you are INSINUATING that the standards are lower for males, and thus that the male students and alumni are inferior to their female counterparts.</p>

<p>If this is such a hot topic in education, would I be correct to believe that you posted the same issue on message boards for all of the other VA colleges? No? You didn’t? Why not? As a taxpayer, are you not concerned with all of the VA schools?</p>

<p>It was not relevant to your post at all that W&M was not your daughter’s first choice. Why did you feel the need to include that line MULTIPLE TIMES. </p>

<p>I actually learned a lot at W&M, which is why you cannot hide behind your [at best] poor reasoning and [at worst] blatant lies about why you are posting what you post. The multiple extremely competitive internships (acceptance rates varying between 3% and 10%) that I have been selected for as a graduate student would also refute your suggestion.</p>

<p>Let me ask you this: if you are not suggesting that the male student population is inferior, what exactly are you suggesting, with your question?</p>

<p>ExceptMe - yes, that is a valid point. Now, will you explain what conclusions you can draw from a different acceptance rate? The only conclusion you can draw is that more females applied. And, as has been discussed before, there is no reason that the admitted students should directly mirror that applicant pool. Next year, if 5000 people apply with an SAT score lower than 1000, should W&M admit a bunch of them, just because a bunch applied?</p>

13

<p>Soccerguy- It’s true that W&M, for whatever reason, attracts far more female applicants than male. Assuming that the quality of the pools of female and male applicants are roughly equal (admittedly a big assumption), the question becomes whether the disparity in the gender of applicants is reflected in the actual student body. Put simply, if the percentage of females who enrolled at W&M is significantly less than the percentage of females who were applicants it suggests that W&M might be making it harder for females to gain admissions in order to create greater parity between the number of males and females at the school.</p>

<p>In any case, it seems that about 57% of students at W&M are female, whereas 63% of applicants are female. That seems relatively reflective of the applicant pool, providing evidence that gender may not be a significant factor in the admissions process. Still, the difference is enough that I don’t think it’s ridiculous for someone to question whether gender is a factor in the admissions process. We’d obviously need a lot more data (and time) to draw a meaningful conclusion one way or the other, but I think it’s an interesting question worth asking (granted that may just be because I’m a huge nerd for this kinda stuff).</p>

14

<p>W&M is far from the only school whos applicant pool is majority female. This is the case for many if not most liberal arts colleges and universities. The fact is that more young women are going to college than young men and therefore applicant pool are oftentimes more heavily female than male.</p>

<p>We have several priorities when building a class and one of which is to create a dynamic community. We have a lot of responsibility to the incoming class and current students and faculty on campus. Would great students, male and female alike, want to attend W&M if it were 70% female and only 30% male? Likely not as many as do now. We also have a responsibility to the individual applicant; not to necessarily make the decision that they would most prefer but to give them a thorough and thoughtful review which we absolutely do. We consider every aspect of an applicant and while some individual applicant may be less competitive in one area than another they may be more competitive in another. For example, one person’s GPA who we admit may be lower than someone’s GPA who we do not but the admitted student may have had a better essay or extracurricular resume or course schedule. In any case, all students who we admit are highly qualified, intelligent, deserving individuals regardless of gender. We simply do our best to bring in a balanced and dynamic class while still recognizing the talents and merits of individual applicants.</p>

15

<p>Dear W&M Admissions, Thank you for your very interesting posts. I have two children who are both British and US citizens attending two of the top private schools in London. At least one of my children will apply to W&M in the next 2 or 3 years. I have a few questions:</p>

<p>1) Why do you think the international student percentage at W&M is only 3%, which I found on the web? Other top LACs have around 10% international students.</p>

<p>2) Do you have any recommendations on what you like to see UK kids take on their GCSE and A levels exams? My kids will take tough course loads with all three sciences at GSCE, Further Maths and Mandarin, etc.</p>

<p>3) How do most international students travel to W&M? Do they have to fly into Dulles or is there a closer international airport?</p>

<p>4) Do you have semester abroad programs to Asia? Which countries?</p>

<p>Many thanks,</p>

<p>Jackuk</p>

16

<p>Hi Jack. I can’t answer most of your questions. But, for travel, I’d suggest considering a flight to Baltimore (BWI airport). There’s an Amtrak station at the airport that runs trains to Williamsburg. That’s how my (Maryland) kids will travel to W&M this summer for D’s interview and tour. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

17

<p>DougBetsy - Thanks. Do you recall offhand how long the train ride is to W’burg?</p>

18

<p>I find the gender-based admission preference discussion somewhat ironic given the long-standing and absolutely appropriate practice of giving admission preference to females to the top Engineering Schools. This has been viewed both in academics and in the industrial workplace as a positive and necessary practice for the sake of workpalce diversity. Why is this not so accepted for males in the Liberal Arts schools?</p>

19

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<p>I’m embarrassed to say it’s scheduled for 4 hours, 52 minutes - the reason it takes so long is a switching yard in Richmond, where freight and pax trains are mingled, with freight taking priority - this isn’t a permanent situation, but at the moment, there you are. </p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.amtrak.com%5DAmtrak%5B/url”>http://www.amtrak.com]Amtrak[/url</a>]</p>

<p>There are closer airports than BWI - BWI is nearly 200 miles away, Newport News (PHF) is 20 miles, Richmond (RIC) and Norfolk (ORF) are about 45 miles, Washington-Dulles (IAD), and Washington Reagan (DCA) are all closer (150 miles) - but BWI is often the least expensive airport to arrive at (that, and EWR in New Jersey.) </p>

<p>But these cost differences are more evident in domestic travel - I think coming in from the UK, you may not see much difference in airports.</p>

20

<p>JimK27-</p>

<p>The OP is a girl who asked about her chances of admissions. I suggested that they’d be better if she were a boy. I didn’t say whether it’s wrong or right for W&M to favor men over woman in admissions. I only said that it’s happening. </p>

<p>Even W&M Admissions essentially concedes that it takes gender into account in admissions decisions: </p>

<p>“We have a lot of responsibility to the incoming class and current students and faculty on campus. Would great students, male and female alike, want to attend W&M if it were 70% female and only 30% male?”</p>

<p>And soccerguy, in response to your questions: “If this is such a hot topic in education, would I be correct to believe that you posted the same issue on message boards for all of the other VA colleges? No? You didn’t? Why not? As a taxpayer, are you not concerned with all of the VA schools?” Let me say this:</p>

<p>I don’t have to post this on other Virginia school threads because, unlike William and Mary, their admissions numbers aren’t skewed and they’re also on the record as saying that they simply do not take gender into account in admissions AT ALL. William and Mary has consistently declined to say the same thing.</p>

<p>UVA makes clear that it does NOT favor men, perhaps because they don’t think it’s right but more likely because they simply don’t have to: UVA has an engineering school that fills its undergraduate school with enough male students without having to favor them. JMU (which does not have an engineering school) is also on record that it won’t favor men even if the results aren’t ideal. </p>

<p>As the article I posted above pointed out:</p>

<p>"An article in the Chronicle of Higher Education by the indispensable education writer Richard Whitmire offered anecdotes from the campus of James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Virginia. JMU refuses to institute gender quotas and as a result is now more than 60 percent female. ‘What can be seen [on campus] so far is not encouraging,’ Whitmire wrote. ‘Stark gender imbalances appear to act as an accelerant on the hook-up culture’—a reference to the Bonobo-like mating patterns that have lately enlivened social life among America’s budding scholars.</p>

<p>For this reason, the admissions dean of the College of William and Mary has been unapologetic about that thumb of his, which he has firmly planted on the boy side of the scale. ‘We are, after all, the College of William and Mary,’ he has often said, ‘not the College of Mary and Mary.’" </p>

<p>Posters like soccerguy and squiddy can jump up and down and protest all that they want, but the numbers – as well as the public statements by William & Mary’s admissions dean and W&M Admissions’ comments on this very thread – speak for themselves. Gender counts in the admissions process to William and Mary. It’s not unreasonable nor insulting, nor does it make me a “■■■■■,” to suggest that a female applicant might want to know this going into the process.</p>