Of someone getting in with a C- in AP biology A and a B- in AP psychology? Though, there is other circumstances. If this person took 30 other classes and got some form of A’s in all of them, would that look impressive despite the C and B- in the AP classes? Oh, out of the 30 of those classes 11 or 12 of them are AP and 5 of the others are honors. Let’s make the assumption this person got great ACT, SAT, sect
You’re a sophomore so all the above about 30 other classes of As and great test scores is pure conjecture. You might as well add hypothetical national and international awards to your chance post. We still wouldn’t be able to chance you, however, since no one can predict admission outcomes for elite schools. If you’re really asking is it possible to get into Harvard after getting a C- and a B- then the answer is yes, it is possible. It is not probable, however. Work hard, worry about colleges later after you have more grades, scores and EC achievements under your belt. You’ll know better at that time which schools are realistic for you.
Good luck!
Thank you! Yes, it’s conjecture. I was just wondering if that would look impressive with a B- and a C-.
@Falcon1
I’m sure you understand that even with perfect or near-perfect grades and test scores the odds of getting accepted are not good. Once you have scores like Bs and Cs, you’re digging yourself a hole that’s really tough to climb out of. I would put Harvard, one of the hardest schools in the world to get into, out of you mind and just concentrate on putting one foot in front of the other only. That means work hard to get your grades up and no more slip ups from there, be a genuinely nice person and try to be a leader in and out of the classroom, and finally find something you enjoy doing and then go do it better than anyone else. If you follow this path, you will end up at great school somewhere and, more importantly, once you get to college you will already know how to be successful which is far more important than the name of the school.
Oh, I see. I’ve only gotten two so far. I got A’s in the rest of my classes. I thought most elite ivy schools didn’t have kids with straight A students? I thought it was GPA, ACT, and SAT they mainly look at? Under the circumstances of the conjecture, would that look impressive? And yes, I’m aware that it’ll be hard regardless. Though, I can’t help focusing on college when I have high hopes for a college.
Grades are the most important thing and should be at least above a 3.8, tests scores must be above a certain threshold, ECs must be outstanding and hopefully allow you stand out from the crowd, recs would hopefully say you are the best in their career, essays must be fantastic and reinforce whatever your personal narrative is.
I’m just generalizing in the above but you get the idea. There are a lot of moving parts to your application but they all have to be in sync and of the highest quality. Harvard has its pick of some of the very top students in the entire world. If you can’t even be among the top students in your AP bio and psych class at your local HS, you probably won’t be the kind of student Harvard looks for. It’s on you to turn this around and prove me wrong. Good luck!
Getting in to any of the most selective colleges is intensely competitive. There are 30,000-40,000 applicants at HYPS for less than 8000 total admission spots. Admissions is holistic, so the admission committee looks at the overall applicant; but flaws in any one area would have to be offset by strengths in other areas to be competitive. As @Falcon1 notes, the ability to handle the workload based on academic performance is probably the single most important thing - (almost) no one gets in who the admissions committee does not feel is able to handle the work. GPA, curricular rigor and test scores are the most important components of this. One or two minor blemishes in a very tough schedule usually won’t be fatal, but more severe or frequent blemishes +/- issues with test scores will raise concerns about ability to handle the work.
I would strongly agree with @Falcon1’s recommendation to not focus on a particular school at this time. Focus on doing well in school and in outside activities that excite you, and check back in a year.
@Falcon1 Thank you! I do have one more question, though. You said that if I can’t even be at the top in my AP bio class and my psychology class they most likely won’t be looking at people like me. How so? From what I know, there’s a good half of Harvard’s students who didn’t get accepted at the top of their class and over a quarter that had a big mixture of A’s, B’s, and C’s. They stressed GPA, SAT, ACT, essays, and EC should be the main focus. Not being at the top of your class or getting solid A’s. Though, it seems you’re telling me differently. What do you have to say about this? I also did not finish my AP bio class. Also, a B in AP psychology is an A GPA wise. Wouldn’t that still look impressive in an AP class especially? I’m just very confused from all the mixed opinions. You’re the first person that’s told me grades are the most important part of getting in haha. I already have a 4.80 GPA.
@renaissancedad
How would I offset the flaws? Mind providing examples?
Also, realistic ones haha. I probably won’t do anything too special due to things I have to take care of at home. Though, surely there must be some things in school I can do to offset my B and C? I also think it might help if I finish my AP biology course with an A. I only got a C in the first semester.
@renaissancedad
One or two minor mistakes won’t be a big issue in a tough schedule?
My schedule is:
honors biology A and B (ungraded)
Japanese (finished with an A)
honors English A and B (finished with an A at the top of my class)
AP human geography A and B (finished with an A at top of my class)
anatomy and physiology (finished with an A at the top of my class)
AP biology A (finished with a C)
AP psychology (finished with a B)
career exploration (finished with an A)
Health and fitness (finished with an A)
Honors geometry A and B (finished with an A)
What’s your opinion on this?
^ My opinion is that based on what you have so far, you would be hard-pressed to be competitive at Harvard or comparable schools. You need to focus on getting your grades up. My impression is that you may be pushing yourself too hard with AP classes for which you are not well prepared. If you do really well (essentially flawlessly) in your academics up to the time that you apply then some of this may be mitigated.
I also don’t understand why you have “finished with” for classes that you apparently are still taking as a sophomore.
As for “offsetting flaws”, exceptionally strong ECs can to some extent make up for a few academic blemishes, though they will not generally make up for a perceived inability to handle the workload.
Curricular rigor is taken into account. And standardized test scores also factor in to perceived academic ability. An unhooked applicant who has top SAT I, SAT II and AP scores but a couple of blemishes on their transcript will appear different than the same student with SAT scores below the 50th percentile and 2’s and 3’s on AP exams; the latter will generally not make the academic cutoff.
I know of one student who was admitted REA to Harvard this year who had some blemishes on his record in his freshman and sophomore year, that dragged his overall GPA down to around a 3.6. But (a) he had a perfect record after that, with a ridiculously challenging schedule, (b) he had near-perfect standardized test and AP scores across the board, and © he had a ridiculous track record of research and awards in national science competitions. All of that clearly “offset” his early miscues (for which he also had clear mitigating circumstances).
Anyway, my opinion is that continuing to obsess about this is not likely to be productive, so I’ll pass on further comment.
@renaissancedad
Oh, sorry. I should have specified. I’m in second semester. That applies to first semester.
I’m hoping to keep it. Thanks for your advice, though. It makes me feel better.
That’s not really a tough schedule. AP Human Geography and AP Psychology are two of the easiest APs. Honors Geometry is not a tough class and in many schools Asian language classes (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) are kept at a very basic level because of the difficulty of the underlying language such as not being able to phonetically sound out words based upon the written language. That being said, you asked about your chances but it seems that you really don’t want to hear anything except that you’ll be fine getting Bs and Cs because that’s what you keep arguing back to me,
Yes, of course there are kids with Bs and Cs on their transcripts at Harvard! Some of them are recruited athletes, others come from extremely disadvantaged socio-economic backgrounds, and still others have overcome difficulties like cancer and other obstacles. There are also kids who have less than extraordinary grades who have done truly extraordinary things with their lives. There are also kids with subpar grades who have hooks (development, super-legacy, URMs, etc.). If any of these factors apply to you then you might not have to worry about getting any more Cs or Bs. But if they don’t, then you should try to make sure you don’t have any further blemishes on your record.
Finally, there are kids who get in with a Bs and Cs who had none of the factors above. It’s impossible to know what the Adcom sees in these kids but there has to be something when they could easily choose another kid with no imperfections instead. The only thing is that these kinds of acceptances are few and far between so you’re better off not being in a position to have to be one of them.
@Falcon1 Reading back at what I said I don’t see anything qualifying as arguing. I simply want to know what the best way would be to achieve this. If getting grades is all I need, I might as well just focus on being a perfectionist with grades from now on. If it’s EC and achieving something amazing, that’s what I rather be focusing on instead of ensuring I get all A’s throughout the next semester and the next two years.
My conjectures I originally posted were what I most focused on. I already have A’s in all my classes for second semester, so I’m not sure how I can get them up. It’s always been the final exams that reduce my grade even if I get over 70%, but my school works off of a percentage system that’s determined by a computer.
I just wanted to know if I took 28 classes with a lot of them being AP and honors, how impressive that would look like if I got all A’s on those with my B and C.
I also can’t find where I said I think I’ll be fine with B’s and C’s. I said I have a B and a C and asked what my chances would be if I took 28 classes throughout the rest of my school experience and got all A’s. I don’t plan on getting another B or C. I also implied that a lot of the Harvard threads on here of “Harvard” students giving advice have said that they weren’t perfect students and didn’t do amazing things.
I also wouldn’t say my schedule wasn’t difficult based off of the AP classes itself. There is teachers to be included and how they grade as contributions as well. What would you say is a difficult schedule? What schedule should I be on to appeal to an elite colleges?
What would be an amazing student applying to Harvard look like? Is it even possible at this point for me to look amazing?
It’s really not an either/or situation. Competitive applicants will have both.
They have 37,000 people applying. It’s hard to “impress” them with just a transcript. If something like 40% of the kids in the class of 2019 at Dartmouth was a valedictorian or salutatorian (this is for students with rank), do you have any idea how many vals and sals apply to Harvard? The bottom line is that no one can tell you how impressed they will be but you should aim for the 28 A’s regardless of the answer. Higher grades are better than lower grades. It’s hard for a teacher or GC to write that you were the “best in their career” if they know you’re not a tippy top student in the school.
Obviously, Harvard didn’t think so. You don’t have their complete application in front of you so it’s hard to know what they had going for them. For instance, in the the Harvard class of 2019 freshman survey, 28% of the class reported that a family or extended family member attended Harvard (parent, grandparent, sibling, aunt or uncle). Even if it didn’t directly influence the decision, it still provided a familiarity with the school and process that other kids don’t have.
There isn’t any set schedule. You should aim to take the hardest classes at your school. Most top student aim to go above and beyond even that. I’m not going to elaborate even though I know that’s your next question. Sorry if your teachers are hard graders but that would affect everyone and so on a relative basis at your school it shouldn’t matter. AP Geography and AP Psychology are probably two of the most self-studied APs because of the relative ease in getting a high score without doing that much work. AO’s know this. Your hardest AP was Bio and you got a C. Make sure when you take Chem, Physics, Calc BC, English or other hard APs you get good grades.
Look at past Results threads for Harvard and you’ll see what kinds of students were accepted. You’ll also be surprised at the “amazing” students who were rejected.
Yes, it is possible for you to “be” amazing (not “look”). Here are some things kids are doing in addition to trying to achieve high grades and test scores.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/302001-list-of-top-prestigious-awards-p63.html
Look at post #939.
I’m afraid I don’t have any other answers for you so please don’t ask me to to elaborate. I’m just a parent here giving my opinions. My original advice in post #1 still stands.
Good luck with everything.
There are literally hundreds/thousands (all totaled) of great schools. Why the fixation on one? 99.9999% of the population are not headed to Harvard. Why do you think you are in that minute category of people who pretty much walk on water academically? Are you the one person everyone you know would agree is a natural for Harvard? Are you much more talented then anyone else you know? If not, think about other schools. If so, think about other schools. You won’t be in Harvard. You will probably go to a great school. Get focused on making the most of your high school years instead of obsessing on something so meaningless!
And no, Harvard won’t be impressed with 30 AP courses with mostly A’s. It’s not about collecting AP credits or 5’s on the test.
What makes the OP special. If there were 1000 kids with a similar unhooked profile, why would the OP be one of the handful admitted?
“From what I know, there’s a good half of Harvard’s students who didn’t get accepted at the top of their class and over a quarter that had a big mixture of A’s, B’s, and C’s”.
Do you mean Hofstra or Harvard? I’d say this is true about Hofstra but not Harvard. About 35,000 students applied to Harvard last year. 2047 were offered admission. They were the ones Harvard thought were the best fit. Of those who ended up attending, 95% were in the top 10% of their high school graduating class. 87.4% had a GPA of 3.75 (A-) or better (unweighted). Nearly 9% had GPAs between 3.5 and 3.74. The average GPA was 4.04.
Are you by far the most talented student in your high school?