What are the rules of med school admissions?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Just an attempt to put down some thoughts. Not complete by a long shot , or even edited. Just some thoughts after looking at these issues for a bit. </p>

<p>1.) A 3.85/34+ is probably safe (as in, good enough to apply to) ANYWHERE (including the most selective) even if you are coming from a lesser light than "the usual suspects". A 36 helps ;). A 3.6/31 will get an otherwise attractive candidate in somewhere if they have a good well-chosen broad spectrum list.</p>

<p>2.) Rec's are even more important than in U.G. Admissions. Relationships with profs are an EC all on their own, so to speak. Cultivate those early and often. Genuine interest in the prof's field is a great entry card. Play it. Don't be smarmy. They'll see through it . (Don't be all Eddie Haskell. Beaver's mom knew the truth.)</p>

<p>3.) And you need more than one rec. Don't let one mentor monopolize your time. Well, at least not to the exclusion of all others. Some programs may require 5 rec's :eek:, I hear ;).</p>

<p>4.) "Brain in a jar" scientists are NOT in vogue right now for M.D. admission, but the top ones will still get their pick. Being a doctor and being able to pass medical school courses are not the same thing. I believe that M.D./Phd. candidates may not follow this rule as closely but still want a communicative candidate. I'm still forming my opinion on that one, not enough data points. </p>

<p>5.) Interviews move up in importance substantially. If you are among the great unwashed hordes of "good to very good" applicants, and not a star candidate, you had better be a damn good interviewee.</p>

<p>6.) If you want to be a doc, apply to all your in-state schools. Both private and state-supported. They are your best hope. Also apply to all the schools in the state where you are doing your U.G., (with the possible exception of California. Sorry folks, those are some tough schools.). Apply to any school which seems to give your U.G. a statistical advantage based upon the last 5 year's results from your U.G..</p>

<p>7.) Aim to satisfy the greatest number of schools list of "required courses" in the "required" or "preferred" form (not CC, not summer, not AP/IB). It may be impossible to satisfy all the requirements (and heavy preferences) of all the schools in the U.S. With the total lack of consistency between schools , even sometimes within the same University that goal is nigh impossible for some.</p>

<p>8.) If you can, schedule your MCAT "courses" in your first two years and IF you are comfortable after your lovely summer of organized test prep/meaningful research/clinical experience - take the MCAT. This is helpful both with MCAT prep and in meeting your requirements for applying and giving med schools completed required graded courses to review. </p>

<p>9.) Financial aid at most schools means access to loans. As such - for loans beyond the federal loans available, the student's credit rating is a primary concern. Do not screw this up with some apartment lease, phone bill, credit card naivete. The credit reporting agencies are heartless machines. There is no recourse for a correct negative credit entry. It is there to haunt you and "good reasons" won't matter. Adopt a "no excuses" policy and live by it. Sell your plasma if you have to, just make the payment on time.</p>

<p>10.) One thing on the app does not trump another in most cases. A 40 won't make up for a 2.9. A 3.8 student with no clinical experience is in trouble at schools that should have been reasonable chances for them. A personality like a dead fish will likely be a killer even with competitive stats. Work on everything. Prepare everything. Don't count on "connections", or GPA, or Ivy, or a 40 MCAT, or great EC's to bail you out. They could be the finger on the scale but they are still going to weigh the entire package you present. The converse is somewhat true , too. One negative thing may not kill you at all schools, either. </p>

<p>In general, all of the cc questions on - what will they like more? Do this or do that? Which U.G.? You are wasting your time obsessing about such things. To be a viable candidate : Take the required classes. Make A's. Prepare a couple a months before the MCAT. Take it one time. Make a 31+. (If your practice scores on real tests were significantly higher, then consider retaking a 31+ . Otherwise don't.) Get significant and meaningful clinical experience you can communicate to another in writing and in person. Have some fun hobbies to talk about and find the time to give something back to your community for all your blessings. If possible, get significant and meaningful research experience you can communicate to another. Develop GENUINE relationships with rec writing prof's where they can see you that you have what it takes. Apply broadly and wisely. Watch your personal and financial life. Do not get derailed by stupidity- chemically induced or otherwise. </p>

<p>How'd I do?</p>

2

<p>1.) Well, anybody can always apply anywhere, and schools like Harvard, Hopkins, and Stanford in particular require great stats and a ton of really great extracurriculars as well. I'd say 34 might be a little low for "anywhere", though, when some schools have a *mean *of 37. There are 14 schools out there (more than 10%) where a 34 would put you in the bottom half of the class.</p>

<p>10.) A hearty affirmation. You have to excel in all areas -- one can't make up for another.</p>

<p>11.) APPLY EARLY.</p>

3

<p>1.) Point well taken. I think I was thinking more in the sense of "take a flyer. It could happen." But obviously my "36 would help" should have been a 37. ;)</p>

<p>11.) Gee. I should have had that one. Dang.</p>

<p>Thanks. Any others you see right now, bdm?</p>

4

<p>I should have mentioned that everything else looks wonderful. Thanks for doin' this. :)</p>

5

<p>Curm-</p>

<p>You have compiled a nice set of rules for the traditional pre-med candidate. As you have hinted in your discussion of MD/PhD applicants, different rules (with different numerical thresholds) apply for non-traditional candidates.</p>

6

<p>Yeah. I need data on the others. Not that easily located btw. LOL.</p>

<p>For those, Is it fair just to call the threshhold GPA/MCAT/Research/EC's - perfect/unreasonably high/award-winning/heroic?</p>

7

<p>Browsing through mdapplicants with an age specification might do the trick.</p>

8

<p>12) Don't let your goal of going to medical school ruin your chance to do other things you really want to do. Want to study abroad for a year? Do it. Afraid to join the ballroom dancing club because it meets as the same time as the Super Duper Amazing Fun Whiz-tastic Pre-med club? Go for it. You'll gain much more in personal growth, experiences, and passion, then you'll ever lose in the med school admissions game...even if this goes against what everyone at your school normally does. (And yes I'm even talking about graduating in 5 years from Duke! No offense BDM...)</p>

9

<p>Good one, BRM. Don't let it take over your life. Same thing I'd tell you about actually being a doctor/lawyer/dentist whatever. Don't let it take over your life. A balanced life should be your goal.</p>

10

<p>do med schools look to achieve diversity in their classes, like undergrad schools w/ URMs?</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
do med schools look to achieve diversity in their classes, like undergrad schools w/ URMs?

[/quote]
Yes. Some more than others.</p>

12

<p>so would asian-americans have to get stats higher than the national avg (i think 3.6, 31 MCAT)?</p>

13

<p>AAMC:</a> FACTS Table 19: MCAT Scores and GPAs for Applicants and Matriculants to U.S. Medical Schools by Race and Ethnicity</p>

<p>Tough question. Asians are admitted at almost exactly the same rate as applicants overall. 42% of Asians and 42% of all applicants matriculate. The admission rate is probably slightly higher as 1. some people are admitted to more than one med school and 2. a few people are admitted but cannot afford it or change their minds.</p>

<p>Asians have, on average, almost exactly the same grades as applicants as a whole, but slightly higher MCAT scores. This might imply that they should have a slightly higher admit rate, with the result that Asian matriculants should have the same grades and MCATs as matriculants as a whole. However, the MCATs, but not the gpas, of Asian matriculants are higher than matriculants as a whole.</p>

<p>Further complicating the question is where they apply. I don't have data, but I think there is a relatively high concentration of Asians in some particularly competitive med school markets, like California state schools. To the extent that Asians might systematically apply to the more selective med schools, they will suffer vs the mean in admissions, not due to their ethnic backgrounds, but due to the choices they have when they apply.</p>

<p>Overall, it looks like it is possible there may be a small bias against Asians, but it might be simply the combination of where they apply and GPA counting for more than MCAT in admission.</p>

14

<p>A couple of notes on curmudgeons list:</p>

<p>Many many people take 1-3 years between college and medical school. This is not only fine, but lots of medical schools really like it. These people often have a better idea of who they are and why they are going to medical school. Thsi has implications for strategy in college:</p>

<p>You do not have to take all your premed courses in your first two years. Unless you are a biochem major with quite a few AP's, doing this could make for an extremely challenging course load. The worst thing you can do for your premed career is to overload and do poorly in your courses. So take them at a comfortable pace, and achieve good mastery of the material along with good grades. Taking the MCATs in senior year or after graduation is fine and common.</p>

<p>A less demanding schedule also permits more involvement in extracurriculars or research and less likelihood of burn out. </p>

<p>Brain in a jar scientists are ALWAYS in vogue, particularly at the top research med schools, even for MD admissions. You can have a major research career without a PhD. However, the standards at this level of competition are incredibly high. These top scientists are evaluated much more on recommendations from top professors with whom they have done research than they are on gpa and mcats- although medical schools will expect both to be very high. </p>

<p>I would add: have two fallback plans. The first is for what you will do the first time you do not get in. If your answer is "forget about medical school", then you should forget about medical school now. Most people who go to med school are so determined that they will reapply several times before giving up. The second fallback plan is for what you will do after you have been denied several times. This happens to well qualified people, so you need to think about what you will do if things do not work out.</p>

<p>Finally, be thoughtful about where you apply (Cur mentions this). There are no bad medical schools. Do not let a fascination with Hopkins and Harvard distract you from making your best effort to get into your state school. You can launch a top career from anywhere.</p>

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<p>i have a question about the ppl who are rejected from every med school:</p>

<p>is part of the reason b/c they didn't apply to the more lesser med schools? i guess i'm talking about choice of applications</p>

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<p>That is certainly a common mistake, particularly for people with strong but not superstar records.</p>

17

<p>It's because there are 17,000 seats and 40,000 applicants. Unless you have people sitting on each other's lap, there isn't enough space in med school to accommodate everyone. </p>

<p>The most common mistake I see among strong applicants is the late application. You will hear stories of someone with a 3.7, 31 who failed to get into any med school. It's usually because they applied insanely late. The next common mistake is not applying broadly enough or only applying to top schools or not applying to enough schools (yes, I know people who applied to 5-6 schools total).</p>

18

<p>yeah i was wondering if not applying to enough schools meant overlooking the so-called "lower-ranked" schools?
b/c i don't see anything wrong, since i still get an MD</p>

19

<p>depends on the applicant, but yes, many people do not make wise decisions on where to apply. However some people just aren't very good applicants and have no shot anywhere. My ex-girlfriend's ex-boyfriend had both problems. From what she told me, applying during his senior year of college, he made awful decisions when applying, picking schools he had no chance at. Applying during her first year of medical school and his first post-bachelor's year, he made better choices, but still wasn't a very good applicant, so the only place he got accepted was Ross Medical School in the Dominican Republic.</p>

20

<p>Now correct me if I am wrong, which I very well may be. I agree with everything that you guys have said. Except, don't med schools invite applicants for interviews from the top colleges in the US first. And if one doesn't receive an interview, then they have no shot whatsoever of getting into a med school. If that is the case, then what happens to a person who is in a good state school which cracks the top 100 college list (Stony Brook). If I am even offered an interview, the med school would have probably interviewed most of the applicants from the top colleges, before they get to me. So as a result, wouldn't most of their decisions be made before I get interviewed, thus putting me at a disadvantage, unless I have monumentous achievement in my state school? Please comment.</p>