<p>Alright, I have a question then mostly to the senior members and super moderators:</p>
<p>A) Is it a FACT that Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton are the best universities in America? Is HYPSM only used in the CC community or…it is well known outside as well?</p>
<p>B) Are there employers that will only hire from HYPSM?</p>
<p>C) People give different answers to the question of the next batch of universities after HYPSM. Alexandre gives a dozen universities while ewho gives 8. Wikipedia says
Technically that would mean the next batch of universities after HYPSM are Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Chicago, and Duke. </p>
<p>Is there a standard, official bunch of universities that come right after HYPSM?
Or are the answers you’ve given all opinions?</p>
<p>If you’ve noticed, even the Ivy Plus Society has a long list of selected schools. And, those “selected schools” are some of the schools deemed to be just as prestigious as (if not even more so than) the Ivy League member schools. </p>
<p>
In my opinion, it is. It also exists in the minds of many highly educated people. But it is an undergraduate thing. Postgrad and professional schools are completely different. </p>
<p>
I have not heard of a top company that limits hiring to HYPSM graduates only though I would reckon that the majority of the hirings are focused on those schools, and another select few. Companies often have a different list of target schools. In banking and finance, instance, apart from HYPSM, Wharton and Dartmouth are highly considered too, as well as Columbia, NYU, Cornell, Duke (in Wall Street); Northwestern, Chicago, Michigan, NDU (in the Midwest); and Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, the top colleges of Claremont Colleges, and perhaps, USC (in the West Coast).</p>
<p>HYPSM usually is non-existent at many tech/IT/engineering or manufacturing firms. For example, Yale grads aren’t as well sought-after as Berkeley grads in many tech and IT firms in Silicon Valley. That’s just an example. </p>
<p>
If you are a huge fan of USNews rankings, you would most likely going to have the same list. However, if you are a techy person or an engineering/science oriented person, you’d most likely going to have a different list. For example, my list would generally include Berkeley, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, CMU, Rice and Cornell. So different folks have different strokes on this. Though I applied and was accepted to Columbia, it was for me just a fall back school. I don’t think I would rather attend Columbia than CMU, for example. But I am a computer science grad, so that explains my unique list of top schools.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think the acronym, HYPSM originated on CC, though it probably is often used on this site than it is outside of this site (real world / work place). HYPSM often exists in one’s perception, for the well-educated individual. But that’s rather for undergrad only.</p>
<p>The Ivy Plus Society is not a viable source RML. It is a social club (elitist, pretentious and superficial by the looks of it) founded by one or two recent Ivy League graduates. It does not have any real appeal or value. It leaves out many top colleges and universities such as Emory, Michigan, Middlebury, Pomona, Rice, Swarthmore, UNC and Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>^ I agree Alexandre. It was just one of the many lists that one can come up with to enumerate schools deemed to be just as good as the Ivies. Of course, that list, despite that it is already long, is still incomplete. But just to give the OP an example, to enumerate 8 GREAT schools apart from the Ivies is almost an impossible thing to do. </p>
<p>I like the Ivy Plus Society’s list, to be honest, but it sorely lacks a few more schools. I’d imagine Michigan and Rice would perfectly fit in that list of great schools.</p>
<p>^ Which engineering firms then do you know of that prefers Yale, Harvard grads to Caltech, Cal or Cornell grads? </p>
<p>I also don’t see a Yale degree would be an advantage over a Berkeley degree in Silicon Valley.</p>
<p>As far as I know, engineering firms are not that prestige conscious, unlike BBs where they recruit from schools with amazing names – HYPSM + a few more.</p>
<p>BBs are quite notorious when it comes to hirings. They usually determine which schools are top schools and which ones are not. They are quite elitist that even a Summa Cum Laude grad can be disregarded, unless it is earned from those schools they considered, “targets”. Of course, I may be exaggerating a bit. But to give you an idea which schools are considered targets for BBs: [Feeder</a> Schools | WallStreetOasis.com](<a href=“http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/feeder-schools]Feeder”>Feeder Schools | Wall Street Oasis)</p>
That’s correct, ewho. But when I wrote that statement, I was also thinking that they are individual schools too, and each of those schools has its own strengths and weaknesses (that’s why I usually don’t lump the Ivies together because they belong to different prestige level and possess different subject strengths). </p>
<p>In engineering/tech/IT, which are highly vocational in nature, humanities-driven schools like Yale and Harvard (which also produce quite a few engineering graduates in a year) are not often appreciated. Maybe partly because most of their (very few) engineering graduates do not wish to work in engineering firms but rather in consulting and investment banking, so they are extremely under-represented at many engineering/tech/IT firms. It’s most likely not due to the school being perceived to be less prestigious, but more likely, effects of school culture…</p>
<p>Anyway, I appreciate your clarification/correction.</p>
<p>Yes, this might apply to HYP, but S and M are among the most represented at those firms. If you mean to say their smaller size (relative to schools like Berkeley) means they can’t have as many in these firms, I’d still say that S and M are very frequently represented, and definitely dominate in per capita measures. Either way “nonexistent” is clearly false.</p>
<p>Fun fact: nearly 5,000 companies in Silicon Valley were founded by Stanford people. Thousands more Stanford alumni work at all of these and many more.</p>
<p>MIT has also spawned an impressive list of tech/IT/engineering companies and their graduates are well-represented.</p>
<p>At any rate, I agree mostly with this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It totally depends on what factors you consider for “similarity,” but H and S are most similar for their top faculty (highest numbers of faculty with major awards, though Berkeley is up there too), their strong undergrad, their dominance across most disciplines (Stanford is stronger in engineering, while Harvard focuses more on professional schools like public health and dentistry).</p>
<p>For similar reasons, I’d say Columbia is like Chicago (each has a huge core, strength across many fields, strong faculty, long history of major discoveries, dominance in # Nobel Laureates).</p>
<p>I’ve always found Cornell and Berkeley to have a great many similarities, but Berkeley could also be likened to Columbia.</p>
<p>It’s hard for me to see Yale and MIT, given that one is focused in the arts/humanities and the other in STEM. I’d say Princeton is much closer to MIT.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is tough, maybe one of Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore. Brown is also tough, but reminds me of Reed College. Penn and JHU are similar, but there are probably many other schools that could be likened to Penn.</p>
<p>A slightly different question: if you could name only one school that matches the Ivy League (disregard the fact that it’s an athletics conference in the Northeast), what would it be?</p>
<p>I run into a good amount of MIT at my engineering firm (space industry). Never seen any Stanford but I’m on the east coast. Never seen a HYP grad.</p>
<p>^ yes, MIT is more represented in Silicon Valley than Stanford is on the East Coast. Stanford people want to stay in SV, the Bay, and LA. MIT people go across the country to get to SV. And really, who would want frigid Northeast bipolar weather when you can have sunny California happiness? Just why SV is better than Northeast tech innovation… and why the West Coast is the Best Coast. ;)</p>
<p>For whatever reason, Berkeley and Emory are not as well regarded by elitist Ivy League graduates. For instance, there are 5 Ivy League schools who have large clubhouses in New York City: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Penn and Cornell. Here are the other Ivy and non-Ivy school alums they choose to associate with.</p>
The Ivy League Plus Society is a good networking opportunity for grads of elite schools to network with successful alums from other esteemed universities. Emory, Swat and Pomona shouldn’t have been left out I admit. Michigan and UNC aren’t prestigious schools however. The overall population of these universities are simply not as accomplished as the schools included.</p>
<p>^ those lists are extremely illuminating. Cornell, the so-called “worst” of the Ivies, is much more inclusive of others. Penn is also pretty inclusive, Princeton a little less so but still inclusive. Yale, not very inclusive, though having UVA is surprising there; it’s the only public on those lists, but everyone knows UVA is the most private-like of all the public schools (except perhaps the military academies, but they aren’t nearly as selective in academics as top private schools). And of course Harvard wouldn’t associate with anyone but itself. It’s interesting that MIT and Stanford appear only once (and each on the two so-called “worst of the Ivies”).</p>
<p>It makes me glad that I’m going through both undergrad and grad without stepping into the Ivy League.</p>
<p>“Michigan and UNC aren’t prestigious schools however.”</p>
<p>Brilliant observation based on what? Michigan has over 12,000 alumni in the NYC region. Just not much of a need to affiliate with other clubs when you have your own huge base.</p>
<p>In my opinion, it’s generally a slight YES, but a lot of factors can influence the decision too so that can still change. These factors are: personality, connections, ECs, relevant experience, majors, and even family names. </p>
<p>Example, the Duke kid has a 3.5GPA but is a son of a governor whilst the Stanford kid has the same GPA of 3.5, less ECs during college, and ugly. Who do you think will get the job between the two. </p>
<p>But if all things being equal, Stanford has got a slight edge.</p>
<p>Not too illuminating. I don’t think they made the lists with an objective eye for quality. Rather, someone probably put other schools on the list because they have friends who go to those schools. If anything it tells us a little bit about what schools “connected”, but only very loosely.</p>