I was just wondering this question, as the last time something similar was asked on this website was around 2005. Times have changed, and so I was wondering what were the peer schools of UCB, especially in private schools. Some people say it is prestigious as Northwestern and Cornell, others say its more similar to Carnegie Mellon and Case Western in terms of prestige. Any clarification/opinions would be great. Thanks!
It’s complicated.
- I think they have three close peers at the undergrad level, in terms of public schools: Michigan, UCLA and UVA. You might broaden it to include several more like UNC, Washington, Georgia Tech, Wisconsin, Texas and UIUC.
- In terms of total university (adding grad and PhD, research output...), US public peers would probably include Michigan, UCLA, UVA (not a ton of research, but very good professional schools and some PhD programs...), Wisconsin, UNC, Washington, UIUC, UCSD and some other top publics. (not sure about Texas or GA Tech's post-grad strength; if good, they belong here too).
- In terms of comparing Berkeley to top private schools at the undergrad level, I think they'd be in the third tier with Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, JHU and Northwestern. Cal's academics are at least as strong as the other schools of this peer group -- maybe stronger overall -- but Cal lacks the advantages the private schools offer: more support, smaller classes sometimes, more spending per student, etc. So academically maybe they're tier 2 with CCCPenn; overall for undergrad, I'd put them in tier 3. I think Cal is the best public school academically.
- For the total university international rankings, you see some dropoff for some elite US colleges because they don't do as much at the grad/PhD levels or in research to garner international hype/rep. So it's a different ballgame. Other top-30-ish American universities -- ranked by overall U rep and output -- typically include Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Princeton, Columbia, Chicago, Yale, Penn, Cornell, Caltech, Michigan, UCLA, Northwestern, Duke, JHU, Wisconsin, Washington, UVA (i think they belong, anyway), UIUC, UNC, UCSD, and some others.
Cal’s closest peers on the international hype meter are basically the top 15ish: Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Cambridge, Oxford, Princeton, Chicago, Columbia, Yale, Caltech, maybe Penn, Cornell, maybe UCLA and Michigan
Not sure why you need to worry about the prestige of UCBerkeley since it seems you will be attending the school. You shouldn’t need anyone here to tell you that UCBerkeley is a fine college. At this point your post-college opportunities will be more about what you do with the next four years and how you can take advantage of the opportunities presented to you than if people on a blog think Berkeley is more like Northwestern or Case Western in terms of prestige. IMO you really need to let go of this and focus on the positives in your future.
@happy1 I ask because I may look to transfer out if it is not seen as prestigious enough in general, as I am looking to go into investment banking which relies heavily on prestige. Please do not bring in past run-ins with my posts and therefor judge this one
@prezbucky thanks, I appreciate it. Obviously tier 1 would by HYP and Stanford but what would be tier 2? Like Coloumbia, Penn, and mid-tier ivies?
You mistook the point of my post – that you should be able to get anywhere you want to in life from UCBerkeley if you take advantage of the opportunities you will have at the school. It is sufficiently prestigious. No school, even HYP can guarantee anyone a IB position – they are few and far between for undergrads – so again it will come down in large part to what a person does while at college (ex. internships, research, coursework etc.).
And I would not call Penn (Wharton in particular) and Columbia (tons of NYC connections) tier 2 for IB.
FWIW in general I don’t love the idea of going to a college with the intent of transferring. Starting college with one foot out the door will stand in the way of your making meaningful connections with fellow students, professors and can hold you back from getting fully involved in campus. Then if a transfer doesn’t pan out you will really be stuck. Certainly if you are unhappy once you start throw in a transfer application or two, but it is best to start off by focusing on making things work where you are.
That’s all you will hear from me.
re: 4
Keep in mind that fit is more important than anything when you are comparing, say, top-50 universities or LACs (chunks of about 50 schools…). That said, if you want to split hairs… two or three times… and just for fun – these are my undergrad tiers for private schools. But like I said, if you are a better fit for a tier 5 school than a tier 1 school, go to the tier 5 school – at this level, every school is very good. These are based on my impressions of overall undergraduate academic strength/rep, support, opportunities:
- Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford
- Caltech, Chicago, Columbia, Penn (CCCP - the Soviet Union. lol. doesn't apply, but i think it's funny...)
- Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern
- Carnegie Mellon, Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Rice, Vanderbilt, Washington U
- NYU, Tufts, USC
- Boston College, Boston U, Brandeis, Case Western, Lehigh, U Rochester, Tulane, Wake Forest...
Or you could combine 1/2, 3/4, 5/6… be more inclusive.
I struggle with where to put Caltech and Penn: 2 or 3? But Wharton and Caltech’s STEM offerings are so massively good that these days I put them in 2.
But don’t get caught up in hype – from me or from anyone else or any ranking. If you use therankings, I suggest using them to compare schools on the different variables that make up the ranking methodologies. That could be useful.
Figure out what’s important to you and judge schools along those lines. To start I suggest academic, environmental, social and (obviously) cost fit.
Here is what UC Berkeley see’s as it’s peers:
http://opa.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/ucb_standard_peer_group.pdf
Of course, this list has nothing to do with investment banking.
If you aren’t invested in college you might not do well.
So not only will you be unhappy but you will close the door on transfers and top IB jobs…
Berkeley has two sets of peers: For in-state students, it’s competing with places like UCLA which also offer in-state tuition. For out-of-state students, it’s competing with other large national research universities like Michigan, UW-Madison, and UW-Seattle. For specific niches, like business, the competitor schools might be somewhat different than the competitor schools for the university as a whole.
If you are concerned about whether UCB students can get into investment banking, you should talk to the career placement office there. The business school may have a separate placement program in addition to the general university one as well.
@ANormalSeniorGuy I feel for Berkeley there is a discrepancy between its standing as an overall research university and as an undergraduate school.
For undergrad I would place it below HYPSM, Caltech, Columbia, Penn, UChicago, Duke,Brown, Dartmouth,Cornell. Maybe similar to Cornell or a notch below.
As an overall university it places below Harvard, Stanford, MIT, on the same level as Caltech.
In world university rankings and Nobel winners Berkeley is right up there with Stanford, Harvrad, MIT and UChicago.
The problem are budgets, oversubscribed classes, housing, size, and acute lack of individual attention. However, it is clearly the top public and a world class power house institution. You just have to be self sufficient and a go getter to tap into all the abundance that is available. If you do really well at UCB, there is no limit on how high you can go. I also believe it is truly a self defeating strategy to start college with the intent to transfer.
Here is a nice little graphic that charts peers between schools.
@zinhead cool, but wow no one selected Berkeley as a peer school. Ivys selected UVA and UMichigan as peer schools but not berkeley
If this helps, the Stanford undergrad admissions director said they compete for the same kids as MIT and Berkeley.
They saw these 3 schools as rivals and peers.
@Zinhead The chart is dated. The world changed in five years.
Are we talking about reputation/ranking or quality of undergraduate education?
The main reason Berkeley is in competition with top privates is because it is a more affordable option, especially for in state.
My son at Berkeley-who was no slacker and ended up at Stanford for grad school) felt that he was much less prepared than his peers in grad school.
Same for my nephew in Econ.
Finances aside, my kids at WASHU and Vanderbilt got a much more rigorous and rewarding undergraduate experience.
Really Stanford and Cal compete for CA applicants only or worldwide.
please. Worldwide of course.
Considering the politics, different planets too 