<p>I agree with you M&B (astonishing huh?)! Chicago, Michigan and Northwestern are certainly Ivy League material in terms of academic excellent, reputation and name recognition. Notre Dame and Washington University aren't too far behind. The midwest holds its own, academically speaking.</p>
<p>I can envision a separate league consisting of:</p>
<p>U Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Georgetown, Emory, Stanford, and Hopkins</p>
<p>That would be a very cool league.</p>
<p>Some believe that UVA is taking steps to become a private institution and then they also fit the mold. Most of their colleges are independent of state money now and they are privatizing their hospital. Its also a very old institution and was created by Tom Jefferson so it could fit in with IVY. Academics are pretty strong as well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ancient? The Ivy League was started in the 1950s, and Cornell was only founded in 1865, 76 years after Georgetown (1789)! So the Ivy league is not at all "ancient," and neither are some of its members.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>From Wikipedia:</p>
<p>"Nine institutions of higher education, sometimes called colonial colleges, were founded and chartered in the American Colonies prior to the American Revolution (1775-1783)."</p>
<p>"Seven of the nine colonial colleges are part of the Ivy League: Harvard (1636), Yale (1701), Princeton (1746), UPenn (1749), Columbia (1754), Brown (1764), and Dartmouth (1769). The eighth member of the Ivy League, Cornell University, was founded in 1865." </p>
<p>So basically seven out of the eight Ivies were all founded when America was still under British rule... i.e. before the United States of America even existed - if that's not "ancient" from a relative American historical perspective, I don't know what is.</p>
<p>To be even more blunt, the point of the moniker "Ancient Eight" isn't a reference to the Ivy League as an organization in and of itself, it is a reference to the antiquity of the individual institutions that make up the organization.</p>
<p>Hmm.... Many of us Northwesterners would take the Big 10 over the stuffy Ivy League any day, epically since our league is 60 years older ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
So basically seven out of the eight Ivies were all founded when America was still under British rule... i.e. before the United States of America even existed - if that's not "ancient" from a relative American historical perspective, I don't know what is.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Late colonial times are not at all "ancient." I don't want to get into a history argument, but in terms of American history, "ancient" most definitely does not refer to the late 1700s (more like the 1500s).</p>
<p>
[quote]
To be even more blunt, the point of the moniker "Ancient Eight" isn't a reference to the Ivy League as an organization in and of itself, it is a reference to the antiquity of the individual institutions that make up the organization.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well I guess I'm not familiar with that term, but my argument still applies. Things founded in the 1700s (and even 1600s) are not ancient. They're old, but not ancient (and furthermore, it should be "The Ancient Seven," since it's inaccurate to include Cornell).</p>
<p>Some people sure are defensive of the Ivy League...
(Oh, what a coincidence: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=43820%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=43820</a>)</p>
<p>I agree with you KK. I would rather belong to the Big 10/CIC anyday. Dominant sports (Hoosier, Illini and Spartan Basketball, Michigan and OSU football, Minnesota and Michigan Hockey etc...), rabid fans, awesome school spirit, great college towns (Ann Arbor, Bloomington, Chicago, Iowa City, Madison) and amazing academics (Chicago, Illinois, Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin) and more pleasant students.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Late colonial times are not at all "ancient." I don't want to get into a history argument, but in terms of American history, "ancient" most definitely does not refer to the late 1700s (more like the 1500s).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Feeling a little defensive? </p>
<p>Can't back up your own original statement?</p>
<p>BTW, were YOU discussing Ancient history? No. Were you discussing Ancient American history? No.</p>
<p>The point YOU were trying to make was that the name "Ancient Eight" was undeserved since the Ivy League was founded in the 50s.</p>
<p>FACT: 7 out of the 8 Ivy League institutions are amongst the OLDEST universtities in America, founded before the American Revolution. Period.</p>
<p>Don't understand what that means? Can you name a group of universities in America that are more "Ancient". Didn't think so.</p>
<p>1500s? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Unless of course you can name some Universities that were founded in America in the 1500s.</p>
<p>Does that make these institutions the oldest in the world? No. (note that I said from a "relative" AMERICAN historical perspective)</p>
<p>So back to your original point (or your lack of one).</p>
<p>Why don't you try and back up your original statement? or maybe you can't.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So the Ivy league is not at all "ancient," and neither are some of its members.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>btw, "Some"? Cornell is the only Ivy that was not founded in the pre-American Revotionary Era (Colonial Era)... what "others" were you referring to?</p>
<p>This post reinforces tabloid thinking when applying to colleges which is really ridiculous. It goes on the assumption, "Ivy League schools are the best schools (best in every department?) so all other schools must aspire to become Ivy League."</p>
<p>Now, the "Ivy League" schools do have some of the best departments in a lot of fields but that doesn't mean they are the only schools to consider. Schools like U. Chicago, UC Berkeley, U. Texas at Austin, MIT, Cal Tech, University of Michigan, UCLA, Rice, Stanford, Northwestern have departments as good if not better than those at "Ivy League" schools.</p>
<p>Now I don't want to imply that I'm bashing the Ivy League schools. Especially with the US News and World Report Rankings, it seems as though some excellent schools (i.e. Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth) are actually getting worse from year to year!</p>
<p>Too many students though are obsessed with Ivy League schools to the point that they will apply to all of them regardless of their major, career path, location, social life, etc. That is absolutely ridiculous. And excellent students often omit schools like those above because they are not Ivy League school. That's not to say that I recommend the high school student who wants to major in music to consider a school like MIT, or a student who wants to be on the east coast to consider Berkeley, but no one should feel that there is a downgrade going to a school that's not in the Ivy League.</p>
<p>Jon</p>
<p>I guess Ancient would be in the time of the great immigration from Russia into Alaska over that strait...</p>
<p>I wonder what colleges existed back then</p>
<p>Hey, lots of people turn down Ivy Leagues for other schools like Stanford, MIT, and Duke</p>
<p>A lot of the kids that are enrolled at Duke, atleast, got into Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Brown and Penn and a few even other Ivy schools</p>
<p>Its more of personal preference than academic quality when it gets to the top 10 school level</p>
<p>How do you assess that schools like Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell or w.e. you are saying is declining?? You are saying b/c a school declines from #10 to #14 in those rankings, it is declining. Let me pose this question, if a school jumps from #17 to #13 in 1 year, did it become so much over night, and btw that is Brown for your information. If Wash U in 5 years went from #25 to #11, did it all of a sudden become 14 spots better. You be the judge of that, however, I do not think so. Good luck peeps!!</p>
<p>Whoa, Ivy_Grad (by the way, nice pompous nickname), obviously you are the one who is feeling defensive. I am simply pointing out that it is inaccurate to call these schools and the organization they're in "ancient" when the word "ancient" is usually reserved for things much older than 300 years. However, in terms of the relative history of American educational institutions, then yes, these schools are "ancient."</p>
<p>
[quote]
btw, "Some"? Cornell is the only Ivy that was not founded in the pre-American Revotionary Era (Colonial Era)... what "others" were you referring to?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Obviously you didn't think your original argument was good enough, so now you have to nitpick about grammar?</p>
<p>Really, I would expect more from an Ivy League graduate. Your rude and hostile tone have no place here, and neither does your bitter and spiteful attitude.</p>
<p>But then again, maybe I shouldn't expect more from an Ivy league grad...</p>
<p>wow, there is some serious pride issues among you guys. Who honestly cares about this garbage. Be happy where you are going and get rid of the need to put down other schools, b/c it is just insane and accomplishes nothing.</p>
<p>Given the pride of many CCers, you can only expect topics such as these to digress into petty arguments.</p>
<p>I find it ironic that this forum first universally touts the Ivy League as "merely an athletic conference" but then argues about which schools to add to it based on non-athletic arguments. Mind you that most of this information is coming from people who haven't even graduated from high school yet and have formulated their opinions based on other uninformed high schoolers and a couple PR magazines and books.</p>