What Did You Do Last Summer? Jobs. vs. Internships

Parents Forum
141

<p>SoozieVT, the only thing I can do is READ the statement by Calmom, and not read BETWEEN the lines to find some half-truths.</p>

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the kids who have work experience in high school generally are better able to find paying work when they want it. Employers are more likely to hire people who have experience; and kids who have worked and been through the job search and interview process are much more likely to go about finding work in an efficient and effective manner.

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<p>Sticking to the sandwich shop analogies, I'd say that the only true statement is "Employers are more likely to hire people who have experience" but that part is neatly sandwiched between two hugely speculative and unverifiable statements "the kids who have work experience in high school generally are better able to find paying work when they want it" and "kids who have worked and been through the job search and interview process are much more likely to go about finding work in an efficient and effective manner" </p>

<p>Two huge heaps of pure baloney on the outside form a pretty strange sandwich!</p>

142

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K-12 jobs, Xiggi?

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<p>I was simply anticipating a story about the lemonade stand being the key to be hired as a lobbyst for the Florida Citrus Association.</p>

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I'm not sure I understand what you are referring to with the reference to "junior year", either.... do you mean college junior year? Are there students who wait that long before getting a paying jobs?

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<p>Isn't it a fair assumption that the term junior does indeed refer to a college junior within the context of "the jobs college students get after their ... junior year?" </p>

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I'm sorry that you can't see the connection.

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<p>Well, I think I can see a connection when there is one. Congratulations to your son for "manag[ing] the payroll for an organization with a large number of employees and high turnover, he is very knowledgeable about various state labor laws related to wages & hours. That organization must place a lot of trust in the ability and experience of ... a high school student! </p>

<p>Oops, have we moved to a different subject now, namely the experience gained after high school?</p>

143

<p>Xiggi, you forgot the part where I wrote <a href="the%20bridge%20between%20the%20teenage%20know-it-all,%20and%20the%20older-but-wiser%20kid%20who%20has%20learned%20a%20thing%20or%20three....">I</a>.*</p>

144

<p>Doubleplay, I very much agree with what you wrote in post #139. We are talking teens here, for the most part. Everyone has to start somewhere on the job ladder. I feel like my kids know what some lower jobs are like and then they move up to other ones (have so far) and hopefully that trend continues. </p>

<p>I also agree with you, Calmom in post #140. Given that my kids are still 18 and 20, I am very pleased with the level of jobs they are now getting, though are not yet college graduates, now they are working in their respective fields. One of my kids has to lead and direct and run some jobs she does. In other jobs, she is paid a fine sum of money and is expected to do professional work where things are on the line and not of the menial sort at all. Recently for one of her jobs she had to do some hiring and directing and present the project to financial backers (this was for a job she was hired to do on a professional level in her field). At another job, she is paid to do something in a program where the "clients" have spent a lot for the experience and she is only one year older than those with whom she must provide the service. At another job, she is producer, director, and teacher, etc. and runs it entirely herself and people are paying a lot for what she is doing and so it counts how well she does it. Each of these jobs leads to other jobs and also resumes that are already full of experience at a fairly young age, all related to her career. She is not only raking in the bucks at some of these jobs, but she is gaining invaluable experience that will impact future opportunities and networking. I agree with what you are saying that some of the work these teens and young adults are doing is of the paid, leadership and even professional variety. However, I also think there is value to those who do other sorts of jobs as teens that do not advance their career as much as are valuable work experiences as early employment and also to earn money which is often the main purpose of some of those sorts of jobs. Granted NOW the purpose of some jobs my kids do are partly for money but partly for the experience in their fields which they would be happy doing even if NOT paid, though earning money is something they do need to do in summers or in order to fund certain experiences for themselves in summers since I no longer fund their summer experiences like I did prior to college.</p>

145

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Xiggi, you forgot the part where I wrote (the bridge between the teenage know-it-all, and the older-but-wiser kid who has learned a thing or three....).

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<p>No, Calmon, there are comments and innuendos I decide to ignore.</p>

146

<p>No matter the age, Xiggi, building upon experiences helps you obtain the next experience. A kid who has a resume of work experiences might find that it helps in getting the next job. </p>

<p>Also, you may laugh about the little kid and the lemonade stand, but one of my kids has had paying jobs since she was young. In fact, she had all her college spending money saved up by the time she left for college at age 16, from previous work. Some of those jobs are still on her resume. She has to present these resumes (she has two resumes actually.....each in her field but each relating to two different facets of her field, both of which she has accrued professional paid work in) every time she seeks the next job. So, I have to say each job she has held has helped her land future ones. I can think of one of the jobs she has this summer (she has a few in her field currently), her resume was required and normally the job is NOT filled by someone her age but rather by adults with degrees. She had to prove she had the experience from prior jobs to fulfill being given this job.</p>

147

<p>X-posted with a lot of people.</p>

<p>This is definitely not an either/or, as some people have already pointed out. Students who work can have travel and volunteer experience. CGM, you brought up the last election. I know that when I was 14 during the 2004 election, I commuted 2 hours on public transportation I had never been on before (since I'm not from the city) to Boston every day where I worked on the streets for the Democratic Convention alongside the Secret Service, protestors, delegates, celebrities, and politicians. After a week of 12+ hour days on my feet in the sun, I was invited by one of the heads of security and DNC volunteering to work inside the Fleet Center. I ran a VIP handicapped seating area during absolute chaos and had to make sure only allowed people entered this area even though thousands of other people without seats tried to enter throughout the night, including some big names. I also did door-to-door canvassing a few states away on my own. I see the value in volunteering, and these were great work experiences. They were, however, entirely different from the experience of working a full time, paid job. </p>

<p>I think that travel is extremely important, and it's something that my family values. We tend to stay out of the super-touristy areas, and we also spend time in local towns and villages. Some travel programs are excellent. The ones I'm assuming the article was talking about (I haven't read it) are probably similar to the ones some of my friends went on that revolve around shallow touristy experiences, shopping, short stays in villages with your large American student group, etc. Before you jump on me, I am not at all saying that this is what your kids did. I know nothing about their experiences. I do, however, know many students who paid thousands of dollars to participate in programs similar to my description. If it ends up being meaningful for a student, then that's great, but often these sorts of travel programs end up doing very little.</p>

<p>Jmmom, I was reading/skimming through these points, and I wanted to say that I really liked one of your posts. I believe it was #108 or #118 or something like that.</p>

<p>Xiggi, beyond the fact that work experience as a whole helps students to get jobs--for the reasons previously listed that I've talked about in other posts--it is not automatic that teenagers have menial jobs. Teenagers may have jobs that actually require real responsibility. My first "real" job (as opposed to playing as a musician where I had to play on my own for an evening at the age of 10 or 11, making $50 / hour at the start) was as a bank teller when I was 16. I had to balance to the penny every day or I couldn't leave until I figured out where I had gone wrong and reported it to my boss. I regularly counted and had complete control over, say, the $32,000 that the local package store brought in. Working as a bank teller is very stressful and full of clients who are confused and quick to anger. It also requires complete confidentiality. That's my first job at age 16. The past couple summers I've worked in Development. I have hundreds and hundreds of names to keep straight, and I have to recognize each immediately. I help put on nice events for very wealthy people. We/I have to do everything involved in running these high-class events, request money, process money, keep track of donors, write thank you letters, get and act in charge of volunteers, run auctions, etc. Good, smart students with work experience can get adult-level, professional jobs. </p>

<p>I also see the value in so-called menial work for reasons we've already talked about.</p>

148

<p>I know this is just anecdotal, but...
I received a BSBA from UNC CH, but I worked an awful lot, in bars, delis, lifeguarding (summer), athletic dept (gopher), girl friday at law office...and I partied a lot so my grades pretty much...sucked.</p>

<p>Anyway, I go to apply to a big company which hires mostly 4.0 business school types, and I'm sorely out-classed. But the guy that hired me went to bat- he told me later he liked that I worked it. He was a salty old-school guy who had at one time been navy, then gone on to civilian life. </p>

<p>You never know who is going to be interviewing you, and believe it or not there are people out there who identify with menial jobs. There are probably others who come from a different background. Maybe they like Eagle Scouts. Who knows? Takes all types.</p>

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<p>I also think some are getting caught up in whether the jobs held by a teenager will lead to professional jobs upon college graduation. Sometimes they do (for one of my kids, every paid job she has held, which are many, all relate to her career). But often the jobs that teens and college kids hold are not with their careers in mind but simply to earn money to fund either necessities, tuition, summer experiences, books, spending money in college, etc. So what if the job at the ice cream stand doesn't lead to employment at Goldman Sachs after they graduate? The experience was worthwhile for other reasons, as well as earned them the money they NEEDED to earn. Are some teens and young adults finding that such work is beneathe them? Come around to my neck of the woods where almost every kid I know has held jobs in high school, summers, and in college unrelated to their career goals but simply to earn money. It is the NORM here.</p>

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<p>Same here, Soozievt. Even though I am in a very well-off area overall, it is still the norm for a 14 year old to work 40 hours / week in the summer. That's what people do here. Even if families have money, it does not mean that parents will freely give their children that money. There is also the issue of further financial independence and job responsibility, which are the two main reasons I'd guess most students in my area work.</p>

151

<p>SoozieVT, aren't you mixing apples and oranges here?</p>

<p>People can present an extensive r</p>

152

<p>Corranged....yes, my kids (who are not poor) also work in summers to both earn money or in some cases to advance their careers and in some cases to fund their summer experience which is away from home. I no longer pay for the summer experiences. They either earn money to pay for them or earn money from doing them. I did pay for enriching summers all the way up to HS graduation. Many where I live don't even get to do that, and must work every summer during high school and/or during the school year. </p>

<p>Xig....which things are you referring to as apples and oranges? If you clarify, I will try to answer.</p>

153

<p>I need to vent on the whole teenage summer jobs thing!</p>

<p>I'm a parent -- but I am also an employer. I have a young man, rising senior, working for me this summer. He's one of 4 teens on staff, with less experience than the two graduated seniors, but the better of the two rising juniors.</p>

<p>During the school year, I expect the kids to work one afternoon and one weekend day. When they can do that, do it well, and keep up their grades etc, I give them a second afternoon. Aside from December when things are <em>nuts</em> I never ask for more than one weekend day.</p>

<p>This particular child has been working since April. He is just beginning to be useful. He took a two week family vacation at the end of June. He had scheduled an additional August week earlier in the year, and <em>today</em> informed me that he was taking next week (more like 12 days) off.</p>

<p>He's going to take 4 weeks vacation in a 10 week summer, with less than six months service. Of course it's not paid vacation. That's not the point. I have put a lot of ttime, energy, and money into training this kid so that he'd be ready to step up when the graduated seniors leave. So he'd be ready to step up and be more useful when I get my one measly little week next month and my assistant manager gets her measly little week next month also. Also so he could be useful when I'm out of town at trade (buying) shows in the fall. </p>

<p>I'm really tempted to tell him that I don't need him -- unfortunately, unless Prince Charming Teen Employee rides up on a white horse tomorrow, I do. Sort of. </p>

<p>End vent.</p>

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<p>cnp55, you'd be doing that kid a favor if you sacked him. One things that kids learn from paid work that they might not get from volunteer work is that they don't get to take vacations and time off whenever they feel like it. So if you fire the kid... he'll lose this job but he'll know the next time around to clear intended personal or vacation time well in advance. </p>

<p>It's not a matter of not needing him -- its one of replacing him with someone more reliable. Surely there must be other teens who would be eager for work right now?</p>

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<p>CNP...It's hard to find good help these days :D. Kidding aside, this points out that some young people (though this is true of adult employees as well) do not take their jobs seriously and are not motivated and don't put 100% effort into what they do or are not entirely committed to the work. My kids have seen other kids like this and commented about it. Some treat their jobs as just a job with very little effort on their part. I feel that those who really do put in the effort and go the extra mile, it is recognized and is rewarded in good recommendations, etc. It is about finding the right employees, no matter the age or level of the work.</p>

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<p>Everyone does what's best for them. I looked askew at the "save the world" volunteer EC's that some kids took in time to put on their applications. But- my thinking now is that, regardless of why they did it, something good probably came of it-- they saw how people less fortunate lived, they experienced another culture, and most definitely gained an interesting life experience, so-- good for them. And maybe some of them do aim to save the world!</p>

<p>Our son (and most of the kids in our town) took the summer job route. He didn't have many EC's. Now that he is accepted and heading to college in the fall he actually has two jobs (he needs to make money), and works 7:30 am til 6 pm with a break in the middle for lunch and changing clothes. After work he usually meets friends to work out and run. I don't know how he does it, but it's his choice. He is also the type who gets irritable and bored if he has nothing to do. He doesn't like getting up so early, though...</p>

<p>S2 is another story. He wanted a job, but couldn't find one. At 14, HE feels he is too old for camp or local sports program, though we offered. He has spent the first part of the summer walking from room to room, playing video games, maybe a little bball or ping pong, but MOSTLY picking fights with his younger sisters. After a few weeks of this we told him to find SOMETHING (anything) to do. So, tomorrow he starts volunteering an hour or so a day at the senior center nearby. Will see how that works out.</p>

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<p>My D also has 2 paid positions every summer. Her M-F, 8-5 job has been "resume-enhancing" positions that provides invaluable real-world experience that ties in with her intended major and career goals. Her weekend jobs have been in the service industry, either restaurant or retail. And yes, she still manages to do some philanthropic work as well.</p>

<p>Our S at 13 is too young for most paid positions so he babysits, volunteers at the library and is on the swim and tennis teams at our neighborhood pool. He also went to BSA camp and will attend a CAD class later in the summer. None of these activities are especially resume-enhancing or even career exploratory (except the CAD class) but he can (and knowing him, he will) gain something from each activity.</p>

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<p>I didn't see that you went back in and edited your post to add beyond the one sentence question asking about apples and oranges and just caught it. I am not sure I fully comprehend what you are saying and the various points. I'll try to respond but admittedly might be missing the mark of your point.</p>

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SoozieVT, aren't you mixing apples and oranges here?</p>

<p>People can present an extensive r</p>

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<p>I think one theme I keep seeing is that for some, a summer experience, or even a job, must relate to college, grad school or career.....to "help" with getting to those goals. I don't see it that way. Sure some experiences are beneficial that way but why must they all be? What is wrong with doing something for its own sake because you just want the experience (or in the case of a job, because as a teen you need to earn money)?</p>

<p>I have read a little on this thread but a lot on past CC threads where expensive summer travel trips for teens are poo-pooed. And that they are either "not educational," "not worthy," or "won't get you into college." Well, guess what? My oldest child has been on two of these. College admissions was the last thing on her mind when she asked to do these for her last two summers of high school. Career or academic interest area? Had nothing to do with it either. One summer she went on an organized travel trip throughout the Western US, Western Canada and Hawaii. She loved it. This child loves travel and it was a way to see all these places that we could not take that length of time to go to with her. The other trip was to five European countries on a competitive tennis tour. She wanted to do this because she loves foreign cultures and also she was a competitive tennis player on the school team and could get further training. She loved this trip too. </p>

<p>All this time later, I see some benefits arising. As an 18 year old, she drove 6000 miles to Alaska with two childhood friends. She was able to venture into independent travel having done organized travel. At 19, she went alone to France to work where she knew nobody and when the job ended, she traveled to various places in Europe entirely alone. At 20, she spent a semester abroad and while there, she also traveled to many countries in Europe by herself. Now she is back in Europe living by herself, working a job, and also doing some traveling on time off to other countries. I believe that the earlier organized travel has contributed to her being able to venture out on her own to travel including jobs and living overseas. Last year's job in France involved living with other people and so did studying abroad last fall in Italy, but now she has ventured into living on her own in a foreign city in no organized group or with no roommates. So, these previous experiences that some would say were not worthwhile or didn't help to get into college (though we surely didn't care) have benefited her in ways that have allowed her to have the experiences she is having now. In that respect, they were worthwhile. They were worthwhile to her, which is all that mattered, not what any college or job was going to think. And so far, so good. She actually is at one of her first choice colleges, and quite a selective one as well. </p>

<p>That is why I am of the school of thought to do what you enjoy and what interests you and the rest will follow. It has worked for my kids. They didn't choose ECs or summer experiences, or jobs, to get accepted to something else down the line. They did these things because they simply wanted to! I'm not sure what is wrong with that! To me, everything is right about that. Doing things to get into college, to get into grad school, to get a job when you get out, is not all that life is about!</p>

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<p>I did not see anybody glorify teen jobs at all and why does it matter that it had to be related to your post-bachelor degree? I don't see the connection.</p>

<p>I had a job as NCR operator as a teen, basically adding/subtracting checks+cash for the banks. That let to a bank teller jobs during high school and after college. After I graduated with an engineering degree, I have never gone back to do any banking job. But what I gained from my teenage jobs are supreme confidence in anything that related to finance, yes I was never out a penny. My teenage jobs let me to be confident in things that I did not know anything about, and so is my attitude to most things in life, I try and tackle anything and not afraid of failure.</p>

<p>This is what I noticed about my D since she held this job, she became more confident, heck, she did not know people pay her to play(sort of), her job is fun to her. In addition, the side benefit is that she actually did a better job at time management and had the best grade last semester out of all high school years, yes despite having to work 20 hours with all those crazy SAT subject and AP tests. The practical experience is very helpful. It's a win win situation. Come to think about it, when I suggested for her to apply for a job, I just wanted to instill in her solidly middle class value and that means work.</p>