What do parents of this forum think about majors and careers?

Parents Forum
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<p>I can really see both sides here because, as I said earlier, I did drop out mid-sophomore year because I felt directionless and didn't want to take on more debt for a degree that might not get me a job. Nursing school was a great answer for me and I don't regret my decision for one minute. I was instantly employable everywhere I went and the work was satisfying, if exhausting. The training itself is incredibly useful too (as is training in the field of psychology). I use things I learned in both fields every day though I don't work in either area now.</p>

<p>What I missed was a LA education. I get it in bits and pieces, but I really wanted my son to have the incredible luxury of 4 years with other bright and shiny minds exploring ideas and learning from the great works of others. I'm happy everyday knowing he's doing that, no matter what he ends up doing career-wise. </p>

<p>I also don't fault parents for worrying about the practicality of a degree, but the idea that one should go in a technical direction if one can "stomach" it...well, that makes my stomach hurt. OP, if you'll only pay for a certain kind of education for your kids, just tell them that and they can find another way to fund the education they want. It sounds like you are paying for your eldest's LA education, so why the guilt trip? Sounds like your daughters can handle it though.</p>

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<p>EK</p>

<p>I see your point too. The reason I went for a practical degree was that I didn't see myself as someone who could take a LA degree and turn it into a job, though I know many people do, including my H (started his own business). My older sister did complete the LA degree and then went to nursing school so she could get a decent job. I expect my son will go to grad school before he finds a career path, but for now, I'm happy we can afford a LA education for him.</p>

<p>And mythmom, I haven't seen the JABC movie, but I thought the book was sorta fun.</p>

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<p>Bethie -- Absolutely, it would make my stomach knot, too, if a child was "forced" into accounting or nursing or something they had no interest in.
But I object to some of the posts that characterized ALL students who major in pre-professional areas as "lockstep," "scary," intellectually-limited automotons who only care about jobs and money.</p>

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<p>bethievt, although OP strongly encouraged us to pursue a more directly applicable degree, she never gave a condition that she wouldn't pay for my (or helenrez's upcoming) education. OP herself is a liberal arts graduate. While I might at times disagree with her focus on career development, I think that her issue is with the system more so than with her daughters' specific paths. I think her point was that those children who do have talents in or can handle ("stomach") technical fields aren't being encouraged enough to develop those, either by their parents, guidance counselors, or colleges. I was, early on, very polarized and not one of those people; OP, though, paid for my education entirely, regardless of her opinion of it. Ultimately, she knows that my writing skills, the school's quality reputation, and the recognition of the program will be key when searching for jobs. (I hope so, at least!) With the younger one, she is probably trying to make the path easier and encourage the development of some of the skills that are, in fact, there. I don't think that either one of us would be "forced" into anything -- an occasional lecture, yes; a discussion, absolutely; but no bludgeoning.</p>

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<p>mammall: Maybe I'm older or so many horrible things have happened to me, I'm not kidding, that I've stopped being a worrier. I have gotten myself out of at least three situations that all around predicted would be the end of any good life for me and am in the middle of coping with a fourth. I have become a fan of living for each day.</p>

<p>One of my kids wants law school. One wants med school. Neither wants a "state" funded one for various reasons that have to do with the particular programs they are applying to. They will be in debt up to their eyeballs because after paying for two elite colleges I will only be able to help them some.</p>

<p>I have told each of them and them together how draining debt is, but it is their decision. </p>

<p>This is what I am doing for their future: I am holding onto my five bedroom house that would be big enough for two famiies to live in. It's in a lovely town they both love. If they ever needed to they could divvy it up any way they wanted.</p>

<p>Beyond that, I've learned not to be a worrier. It just doesn't do any good.</p>

<p>Your kids sound so stupendous I would not worry about them unless we worry about the whole darn shebang collapsing, which it could. I don't let myself go there because there's nothing we can do about it.</p>

<p>I'm glad that's our only disagreement because I wanted to make clear that I am not a liberal arts snob or anti vocational education, whether it's nursing, engineering or accounting. There are so many routes to success (and lack of success) and so many types of people to be, and to my mind we need them all.</p>

<p>Although I was very adept at math and science I don't have the temperment for technical work, but I very much respect those that do.</p>

<p>My kids did not choose law and medicine; they chose them. Each has wanted to do that since each was four. I can't explain why. Neither has wavered, and I have every confidence they will.</p>

<p>If each just earns a modest amount and doesn't set the world on fire in those professions, as long as they can pay back their debt, that's fine, too.</p>

<p>Or maybe someone will win the lottery. Wouldn't that be nice.</p>

<p>One thing I failed to mention is that my colleagues generally teach until seventy-five so that saves me some worrying about my future.</p>

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<p>I'm one of those "not-so-useful" undergrad degree holders (poli sci.) I honestly don't find it comes up at all at interviews, other than to ask, "why did you choose that major?" Once they see the supplementation with quantitative and language coursework, I do just fine.</p>

<p>Major is a pretty poor indicator of career, outside of a few very specialized careers. Even then, I know plenty of social science majors who went on to become doctors...</p>

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<p>Well, it probably comes down to the intangibles -- true leadership talent, vision, creativity, initiative, risk-taking. Mythmom - sounds like you've modeled those attributes very, very well for your kids. At my H's company, the more "technical" you are, the more vulnerable. I hate to admit it. I really, really want to find the silver bullet college major for my kids that will guarantee them security and happiness. Wouldn't it be nice if it existed.</p>

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<p>I worry about a lot of things for my children's futures (and globally, I think there are worries aplenty), but it has never occurred to me to worry about whether or not they can make a living. </p>

<p>I have one hopefully heading off to music school, and I am <em>still</em> not worried (not in the slightest). I figure a smart kid with a good head, a great personality, and some killin' musical ability will be doing what he loves, one way or another. And it will be his path to forge, not mine. I have enjoyed watching him develop thus far...it would never ever occur to me or my H to hold him back or encourage (or even force, as some parents we know have done) him to study something else besides what he loves.</p>

<p>I just figure, as long as we don't end up in a global war, or a collapsed economy, which are out of his control completely, he'll be just fine ;)!</p>

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<p>Helenrez--I am so impressed with you. I can tell you that your mom wishes the very best for you but really--it is far, far better to be a top philosophy student than a mediocre business or compsci student!</p>

<p>Here is something you could offer to do to compromise: major in whatever floats your boat, but take math, stats and econ (micro and macro) as electives. Make sure you stay in math through multivariable calc (or if you are not good at it just get through basic calc) and make sure you take more than just one stats class--take at least one class past the introductory level. If you do that you'll have all you need to go to business school and get an MBA if after a few years in the job market you find you need one.</p>

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<p>mrezni</p>

<p>Maybe your Mom just needed to do some good natured complaining with her online buddies. I did that when my wonderful son was taking <em>forever</em> to do his college apps. My online buddies basically told me to chill out and I finally did--a good decision. Mostly parents want their kids to avoid making the mistakes we made. But people do have to make some of their own mistakes too. Life would be really odd without any mistakes.</p>

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<p>Allmusic: I'm with you. It seems like we've reached a consensus -- how unbelievable! We would all like a recipe to ensure our children's success, but in such a mercurial world there just isn't one. Short of that I think the universal prescription, no matter what the interest, major, skill set or ultimate destiny is: Keep your wits about you!</p>

<p>Oh, I would like a recipe for everyone else's kids here too.</p>

<p>All I can say is DS is very happy today because Williams beat Amherst 20 - O at Homecoming, final game of the season. He was an ESPN jumping around in the crowd because Williams was chosen for CollegeGameDay.</p>

<p>Haha. He's never followed sports before, ever. Proof that circumstances change people.</p>

<p>My condolescences to Amherst parents here.</p>

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<p>We're family of nerds and techies here. H&I have been earning very good salaries for years(25+ and 30+). However, in counseling my D what major to pick for college, I suggested she goes with something more in line with liberal arts. Why? I don't want her to go to the lower level management types that we techies have. D has skills that would lead to more leadership positions: good at listening, good at writing, good at analytical thinking, good with people, and excellent organization skill.
I also compiled a list of majors/colleges the top 50 powerful women for D. Out of this list, only one went to Harvard undergraduate/Harvard MBA(Google), one has a MD degree(some pharmaceutical), one has a CS degree for undergraduate(Yahoo). The rest of majors: English, economics, bio, but mostly liberal arts degree. So I agree with the UW article and I do have the data of top 50 powerful women to back up.</p>

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<p>Thank you, Mamochka, for starting this discussion. It has been weighing very heavily on my mind lately. How does one graduate with a LA degree and land a job which allows one to live independently, albeit at a modest standard of living? I imagine internships are an important part of this process, as are connections. Is there anything that the kids who are working at jobs which pay a couple of bucks above minimum wage could have done to maximize their chances of getting a better position? What are the variables? Is it their grades? Their looks? Their social skills? The area of the country in which they live? More time spent in the Career center at their university?</p>

<p>If my son or daughter graduated from a good school and could only find jobs making two dollars above minimum wage (as one poster reported) I and my husband would be pretty upset!</p>

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<p>Mombot gave good advice for my sister to take stats and calc while it's feasible (in college it's a lot harder). Helenrez may make a good business or law school candidate down the line, so those courses teach the logical thinking that's so necessary for LSAT. In conjunction with a major like political science, having that coursework may be advantageous to her as a college graduate. (BTW, econ, math, stats--all are classified as "liberal arts" -- at least at my school.) </p>

<p>Personally, my last real math class was algebra II when I was 17 (never got to pre-calc). In retrospect, that was probably a mistake, because now I avoid, like the plague, any job advertisements that call for quantitative analysis. Took the required econ for IR, with a lot of struggle, and didn't get much out of it. Still, to each his own: people have different skills and interests; some, by nature and personality, are more polarized than others. </p>

<p>It seems that the key to success is being not only skilled in any certain areas, but also in well-roundedness, which not everyone can boast. A graduate in the social sciences who has analytical thinking and coursework under his belt may make a more formidable competition for jobs than a techie without any liberal arts experience. The vice-versa may also be true, for different types of jobs. </p>

<p>(Of course, we're constantly reminded by the University that internships are vital. But not just for LA graduates anymore -- for everyone.)</p>

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<p>mrezni--I made the horrible mistake in high school of quitting math after Geometry! I thought I was horrible at math--algebra was traumatic. I am strongly lopsided and was always really good at reading and writing and social science. Lab science was interesting but I didn't have the math to get any further than HS biology.</p>

<p>I started with a remedial college class in Algebra my freshman year and just took one math class each quarter. One foot in front of the other. I was never great at it but I was able to pass each class. I got through calculus although I took the calculus lite for non-science majors, and I got through the introductory series in statistics. </p>

<p>I wish I had had a mom like you who would have challenged me to keep going in math in high school--I was able to fix some of it in college but my lack of preparation really did close a lot of academic and career doors to me. I think your mom is spot-on that American students aren't pushed hard enough to develop themselves in subjects that don't come easily to them. I realized today I had missed a lot of her posts, and after I read the pages I had missed her opinion that your sister should keep up the math/science or tech subjects as along as possible made perfect sense to me.</p>

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<p>I left HS without taking chemistry or calculus. When I needed college chem to get into nursing program, it was hard but I powered through it. I was also able to get through 3 stats courses with A's in Phd program. I can't see any way my lack of calculus has hurt me.</p>

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<p>My S and D each took math through Calculus in high school. Each is hoping to never take another math class again. Correction, D did take logic at Barnard. S will never step foot into a math class again if he had help it.</p>

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<p>Hmm, I'm curious to know what doors were closed to you by not having a math background (teaching Calc, maybe?), career or academic. But you did have the background, right?


I had to take Calc in college to transfer to architecture school. I never figured out why. Didn't help me in any structure classes. It was more geometry than anything. Even so, today I'm a writer and an editor (architects, in general can't write worth a damn!). Prior to that I managed car dealerships selling hi-line European cars to plenty of academics, doctors, lawyers, scions of industry, and even world-famous artists, actors, and writers. I often had to explain to successful physicians why it was better for them to take a manufacturer's offer of 0% financing on their new $80,000 car than to write me a check from their money-market account earning 7%. So much for math. </p>

<p>My mother was a math major in college during the war. I doubt it helped her as she rose from teller to a bank vice-presidency. Obviously if you know what you want to do after college and it includes math, that's a no-brainer. Otherwise, I doubt that anything beyond Geometry, Trig, or even Algebra II is really necessary for most white-collar jobs. Ask any employer. People skills always come out on top for employment. And that might even be an argument for conference-style LA courses over math. Erudition is more desirable than math skill, particularly for upper-management in most any business. I have one LA-grad sibling who is successful in commercial real-estate and another at the top of his field in educational publishing. Not bad for a French major.</p>

<p>The real problem today is not that kids arrive at the job market without marketable skills, but that today everyone expects instant success and no one values time-on-the-job, or loyalty to an employer. If you've had ten jobs in five years and moved each time to make more money, you're considered successful as opposed to the schmuck who starts at the bottom and puts in twenty years really learning about his company, their clients and customers. Of course the likelihood of any company not being bought out in twenty years these days is slim and even employers don't value employees who've gained experience in their job. They all want that experience to come from some other company. And they never want to keep an employee so long that they actually have to pay out benefits they'd avoid in hiring more under-qualified kids out of college with no math skills who are willing to work for $2 over minimum wage. In the end, we'll all end up as either WalMart greeters, Google entrepreneurs, or members of the Lucky Sperm club. ;)</p>

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<p>Proud Dad: You're probably right, but gloomy for a Sun morning. I have really adopted the ostrich attitude for things I can't change.</p>

<p>But as long as we all have a fairly decent roof over our heads, food, some basic health care (haha, let's hope) we are ahead of the game in terms of most of the world.</p>

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<p>"S will never step foot into a math class again if he had help it." </p>

<p>That's totally how I felt -- and my school required 2 semesters of math. I fullfilled it by taking introductory computer science and the history of math (which was actually relatively interesting). In retrospect, investing in econ tutoring would have been more helpful to me than any college calc class. </p>

<p>In my public school system, after 7th grade, students were tested on math ability and divided into four "levels". The top level followed the pre-calc and AP calc track to their senior year of high school. The second level followed up to Algebra II junior year of HS, and with an optional pre-calc or finite math senior year, which I didn't take at all. Third level was remedial math of some sort, and fourth - arithmetic, probably. Once you get to HS, switching levels wasn't an option unless you were exceptional. </p>

<p>I got As and Bs in high school in the second level, but it was evident that this level was NOT as encouraged as the first. Lots of "you guys don't need to know that in here, it's not honors". At the time, I liked the level system because I had no desire to do the calc track (still don't). Now, though, I think that system certainly led to that conditioning cycle from age 13: believing that "math is scary". You mark a few bubbles wrong on a multiple choice test... and voil</p>