<p>I agre with TheGFG. As a parent who cares deeply about education in general, and in particular that of my children, I get tired of the whip-lash we receive from the teaching profession. They profess they want us “involved”, yet they then draw an invisible bar of what is appropriate. One step over and they move us to “helicopter parent” and view us with disdain.</p>
<p>There is truth on both sides of this exchange. Yes, some parents believe that their little darlings can do no wrong and deserve a perfect educational situation - the best teachers, straight As, no conflict etc. Some parents think that the schools have endless resources and make demands that, while they may help their child, are unrealistic in terms of cost and time. They may treat the teachers and the principal with disdain and take every little issue up the chain of command. Those parents would frustrate even the best educators. OTOH, some teachers and principals can’t see beyond the “one size fits all” aspect of education and bristle at any disagreement from the parents. </p>
<p>Some principals treat any parent that disagress with them as the enemy and takes it out on the children. Some principals refuse services to students that would really help those children succeed. In those cases, parents have to be persistent to get a good outcome for their kids. Our elementary principal lost a lot of respect by many things he did. Even those of us who are respectful of teachers and principals came to dislike the way he ran the school. </p>
<p>A good principal supports his or her teachers if a parent is wrongly accusing them. A good principal also requires the best from his or her teachers and will not be afraid to challenge and support the teachers to do better. A good principal will respect the parents, even if he can’t meet their demands (until the parents turn disrespectful themselves). </p>
<p>By the way, I have not been “one of those parents” because luckily the issues my children have had in school have not required me to be. I also think that many people actually do respect teachers and principals, although few understand how difficult those jobs can be.</p>
<p>"* Biglaw partners, Ibankers at Wall Street type firms like Goldman Sachs, "</p>
<p>You guys really think people ooh and ash over these professions? I sure don’t. The only people impressed by these professions seem to be the people in those professions. I really haven’t observed that anyone else gives a darn, really.</p>
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<p>I note though that when anyone suggests that graduating from one of the super-prestigious diploma mills (HY and sometimes P) doesn’t improve one’s job prospects, there is usually an instant response that those schools are the places from which the big law firms and Wall Street firms recruit.</p>
<p>Whether that is true or not, I don’t know, but apparently some people think the claim is enough to end the argument.</p>
<p>I only taught in poverty public schools. Parental relationships ranged from neglect to keen concern for their child, but to a fault stayed always respectful. Poverty was our common enemy, rather than school personnel. </p>
<p>It was hard to get some parents to come into the school building willingly. Most were, themselves, only recently out of high school. If they’d dropped out to have children, they still carried that fearful attitude towards school as an inhospitable place, not for them. Most of the conferences were spent trying to help parents feel more at home in the school.</p>
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<p>Depending on context of a given school and its purpose, this may be a sign the parent(s) and child in question were oblivious or didn’t fully realize the implications of a given school’s academic purpose and reputation as was the case with the well-off parents from neighborhoods like the Upper-East side I witnessed badgering teachers/principals for special treatment of their kids. </p>
<p>They didn’t seem to realize/like the fact that:</p>
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<li><p>This was a magnet high school with emphasis on math/science. You/your child chose to apply by taking the specialized high school entrance exam and accepting the admission offer. Don’t like math/science/feel there’s too much emphasis…you’ve chosen the wrong school. </p></li>
<li><p>There are high minimum standards all students are expected to meet with no expected accommodations beyond ones for documented disabilities. If you were expecting exemptions or special treatment merely because it’s showing your child’s just average or worse below average and it makes you/your parents feel bad and you all want to stick your necks in the sand…you’ve picked the wrong school. </p></li>
<li><p>You feel the workload/rigor is too much/too intensive? That’s what you signed up for when you applied, were admitted, and chose to attend. If you/your child didn’t like it, you’ve chosen the wrong school.</p></li>
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<p>There is a huge difference between strongly and persistently advocating for your diagnosed special needs/ADHD/autistic (fill in the blank here) child, and blanketing the guidance counselor/department head/administration on up to the district office if need be with emails and phone calls trying to change your average/above average/bright but not brilliant child’s classroom placement only because her assigned teacher has a personality that you feel isn’t the best fit for your child… Based on tales told by other parents, not on any complaints from your child. </p>
<p>We all know those parents in second grade. They are also the same ones who complain about playing time and perceived coaching problems to the high school athletic director, and possibly on up to the principal and district director of athletics. They are the same parents who complain to the principal when their child receives a failing grade for turning in a late project. Late not because the child was hospitalized, but late because the child missed two days of school to attend an out of state non school related sports or robotics tournament.</p>
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<p>The latter would have been considered a co-curricular activity allowing for automatic extensions/accommodations so long as the school was notified of the event beforehand. Heck, considering how strongly my high school was interested in encouraging such scientific interests, they’d probably make it school-related through school sponsorship. Sports…not so much…</p>
<p>Cobrat, you and I are on the same page about robotics, as well as music, and other legitimate reasons for missing school, but at our school the child is responsible for securing written permission ahead of time, signed and approved by the affected teachers and the administration. And all missed work, projects and tests must be handed in early, on time, or late with the permission of the teacher. But we do have kids who don’t follow the rules, earn the F, and then their parents step in to complain. Our robotics club misses a few days of school here and there for travel to competitions, but that doesn’t excuse each kid from missed work.</p>
<p>My kids attend public school in a very affluent area. While I knew their principals in elementary and middle schools, and for the most part thought they did an effective job, I have never laid eyes on the principal of their high school. For that reason he cannot possibly have an opinion of me. I’ve never had the need to deal with or meet the principal because the guidance counselors, teachers and other school personnel have handled everything I’ve ever needed. I do find it odd that I’ve never met the principal since I have attended the vast majority of parent meetings, parent coffees, school events, etc. and have had kids in the school for 4 years.</p>
<p>Observation based on 15+ years as a special ed teacher: A lot of conflict would be avoided if teachers keep in mind that it is a parent’s job to consider his or her child as the most important one in the class, and parents keep in mind that teachers have 20-30 other children in the class and have to consider each one of them just as important. Nobody, especially in special ed, wants to hear it, but there is only so much we can do, even going above and beyond, which many teachers do.</p>
<p>That said, I would much rather deal with a parent who advocates for a child than an indifferent or uncaring one.</p>
<p>^^^ excellent observation on avoiding conflict, scoutsmom. If only!</p>
<p>I have worked in several schools and have discovered that many parents think that because they spent 12 years in school, they know how a school should be run and how teachers should teach. Yet if they spent a few weeks in a hospital I don’t think they’d consider themselves qualified to be a doctor or a nurse.</p>
<p>In my experience, teachers and administrators welcome parents who say, “How can I help my child?” They don’t welcome parents who say, “My child’s failure to learn is your fault.” </p>
<p>Some parents are just completely unrealistic. I remember a group of parents in our elementary school going ballistic because the district’s early-intervention pre-school was going to be moved into our building, which meant re-arranging which classes would be in which rooms. They verbally attacked the superintendent when he came to the PTA meeting for a Q & A and wanted to go to the newspaper to drum up support. Their precious 2nd graders were going to have to walk past two classrooms of pre-schoolers to get to the cafeteria! Oh, the horror! It was the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen. </p>
<p>I also see a lot of parents who, when there is a problem, insist on going straight to the principal. They don’t want to talk to the teacher first, or the department head, or the academic vice-principal. In other words, they don’t want to follow chain of command. They’ll by-pass the people who can actually address their questions and perhaps effect the change they are looking for, for the sake of going straight to the top. The principal isn’t going to do a darned thing for them until AFTER she has talked to the teacher, department head, etc. </p>
<p>There was a great article in the NY Times Magazine recently: “What If the Secret to Success is Failure.” This quote refers to an expensive private school in NYC:
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<p>One of our area school districts was hit with an unexpectedly large number of kindergarteners on the first day of school, so they made the decison to split the lone kindergarten section into two. They were able to hire a teacher within a couple days and then split the class. The next School Board meeting, several angry parents appeared - their little darling had been yanked (their word) away from the teacher with whom they had bonded and now had to get used to a <shudder> total stranger. It didn’t matter to them that now their kids were in a room with 14 other kids instead of 28. After the meeting, the principal told me privately that he had observed the new class on the second day of the split and it was obvious the kids had already bonded to the new teacher. </shudder></p>
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<p>You apparently have never met my in-laws.</p>
<p>I’m sure that I was considered one of “those” parents when D was attending our local HS.
When a school has 2 sets of rules , one for a handful of favored students and the other for everyone else, yes I (and others) are going to complain. I will not go into detail here, but in four years I never felt welcome in that school and did not feel as if my child was either. Pretty bad when a teacher does not even know your child’s name at the end of the year ( and I am talking about a student who graduated at the top of the class). </p>
<p>OTOH, S attends a regional magnet school and I have absolutely no complaints at all. A completely different experience.</p>
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<p>If this is the worst they can come up with, then I think those principals of affluent schools have it very easy.</p>
<p>As a teacher in a large public high school in a fairly affluent area I have some wild stories about parents but for the most part parents are part of the solution to whatever difficulties may arise. A trend I have observed is that wealthier parents tend to be part of the problem and not part of the solution. They seem to go to great lengths to make sure their child succeeds with the exception of actually holding him accountable. Unfortunately they can’t go to college with the little darlings and many of these kids end up failing. I once had a parent tell me that ACT of 18 was pretty good and that the child was taking a gap year before entering college. This from a college educated women who was an executive at a major local company.</p>
<p>nocashfored,
I hope you are not an English teacher.</p>
<p>No, I’m not, but I accidentally hit the reply button before I proofread. Sorry</p>
<p>On the other hand… when I worked in a middle-class public hs I had a vice-principal come into my office one day to vent. She’d just had a meeting with a troubled teen girl and her mother. The mother spent the entire meeting berating the girl to her face, in front of the VP, calling her daughter quite a few unprintable names and insisting that the VP report the girl to her parole officer because she wasn’t coming home at night. After the mom left, the VP asked the girl for her side of the story. The girl said she’d been sleeping on her friend’s couch because the mom was a raging drunk. The VP told me it had taken every bit of self-control she had to not slap the mother across the face.</p>
<p>So that’s what principals think of “some” parents.</p>