<p>SIL is a principle at an affluent private. She was recruited from a less than affluent public magnet.</p>
<p>She loved the parents at the magnet and she’s a huge fan of the parents at the private. She says, “We need X number of new type YZ computers,” and they fundraise and bring them in. She says, “We need four dads and two moms to help with the ABC,” and eight dads and four moms show up to help with the ABC and usually end up finishing DEF, as well.</p>
<p>Of course, now people are trying to move her back into the public schools in the superintendent type of position. She’s very good at managing expecatations, her own and everyone else’s, but she’s leery of getting back into the public system. She finds the parents much less troublesome than other elements of her job.</p>
<p>If a parent actually said that to a teacher at my high school, there would be many double-takes and jaws dropping to the floor followed by musings by other parents, student-volunteers, and even some teachers about what was that parent smoking to be under such absurd delusions…followed by musings as to how the heck did this kid manage to gain admission and survive past the first semester much less survive to senior year.</p>
<p>I’m curious if there’s a strong difference in turnover rate of principals, comparing affluent and poverty schools. In a 7 year period in a poverty school, I taught under 6 principals (counting the interims brought in while they searched for new principals because the September-start principal quit by November). The school really broke the principals; I saw it each time. I mean, two of them cried at staff meetings, it was that hard to run the school.</p>
<p>Some of my First Grade students called the custodian “Principal.” They thought this “because he’s a man and was up on a ladder” changing a lightbulb. I guess they needed a leader! We all did. The teachers held that school together during those years, IMO.</p>
<p>At a different poverty school, I taught under the most controlling and power-hungry person I’ve ever met, anywhere, as Principal. She ran the school with an iron fist, and stayed put long in that school. She believed this kind of leadership was necessary to pull students out of poverty. I disagreed but it was her school. Parents admired her.</p>
<p>cobrat- When a I relayed the conversation to other teachers, I received some surprising looks. The student in question just graduated last spring so he’s in his ‘gap year’. I don’t think he was actually admitted to a college and will probably end up at CC. I’m sure mom will keep me posted as she has younger children still in high school and she is one of those parents who continue to visit me during parent teacher conferences long after I no longer have their child.</p>
<p>Yes, SIL started at a very impoverished inner city school, where she didn’t see too many of the parents too often, but she “got” it. She loved those kids, too. The ones in trouble and the ones not in trouble. She was as likely to get on the phone and call a parent then as now. She said in her opinion, they did the best they could, and it wasn’t good enough, but it was all they could do with what they had.</p>
<p>What she decided in those five years was that poverty was a thief of time. There wasn’t enough time for the teachers to teach the curriculum or for the kids to get the work done or for the hard working parents to get in there or even to help out their kids at home. She really felt it all came down to time, when it came to what money could have bought them all, and there just wasn’t enough of it with any given group of high school kids to make as much of a difference all would have liked. But, they did the best they could.</p>
<p>School administration of highly competitive private schools generally do not need to bow down to parents. There are enough people who want to be there that they don’t need to kiss up to parents.</p>
<p>This seems to be common to every profession serving children (pediatrics, social work, teaching, etc.). When you have your worst day in any of those fields, it’s often because of parents, not kids.</p>
<p>Though my niece’s teacher would probably say that her worst day this year was when a stomach bug ran through the room, with the preschoolers and teachers all re-enacting “The Exorcist.” I bet they all missed the grouchy parents on that day.</p>
<p>Same with highly competitive public magnet high schools. Common refrain from many teachers and vice-principals at my NYC specialized high school was…“…you/your kid can always transfer back to your local zoned high school.” </p>
<p>That was the common reply teachers and vice-principals made to overentitled well-off parents from neighborhoods like the Upper-East Side who wanted special treatment/accommodations for their kids merely because they weren’t happy the grades showed they were less than above-average. Sometimes…well below-average.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this was the case with a few teachers…including one teacher I had with whom I had a serious personality conflict as a 13 year old HS freshman. </p>
<p>His interpretation of the refrain was one reason why he attempted to deny accommodations of extra time to an older classmate with a documented learning disability in his freshman year. Only after the NYC Board of Ed itself ORDERED him to provide that accommodation as mandated by NY state education law did he comply. </p>
<p>Keep in mind this was back in the late '80s in that classmate’s case when awareness of learning disabilities wasn’t what it is nowadays and there was still an attitude that someone with learning disabilities shouldn’t be attending academically elite schools.</p>
<p>As a parent of a student at a highly competitive and expensive private school, I agree there is no need to kiss up to parents. However, there is a great expectation that the school will be responsive to parents and students when they have concerns and that all will be treated fairly. That is, after all, why you are paying the big bucks. </p>
<p>Having said that, we did have parents who tried to ‘rule the roost’. They were usually the very wealthiest families. Our administration was good at handling these parents in such a way that they didn’t get out of control. Although I did see several athletic coaches get fired over the years because of these parents. On the other hand, these families had no qualms about giving hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations to the school, so everyone’s children benefited from having them there. If it made them feel important to get the football coach with a bad record fired, I was okay with that. At least, they brought in an excellent football staff and we went on to win many championships when my son was playing there.</p>
<p>At our school, a teacher who made the comment, “you/your kid can always transfer back to your local zoned high school” would have been fired on the spot and I’m not sure I would have wanted my child at a school where teachers are allowed to make such obnoxious comments. We had students who were ‘counseled out’ because they couldn’t hack the academic rigor and we had the occasional parent who jerked their kids out of the school in a huff because they couldn’t get their way but the expectation is you will *always * be treated with respect and get good customer service from the teachers and administrators. And the administrators also made a point to protect the teachers from the occasional obnoxious parent. </p>
<p>Over the years, I talked to many teachers who came from our public schools to our private school. They will tell you there are pluses and minuses to both settings. Most appreciated the fact that parents in the private setting are very actively involved in their child’s education and were willing to put up with the ‘pushy parent syndrome.’</p>
<p>When we were planning to move our kids from private to public, an experienced mom told me that some publics are outstanding, and the big difference is that in the publics, you really must advocate for your child, because no one else will and your kids can get inadvertently lost or misplaced if you don’t. I have found this to be true. Maybe some teachers/admins interpret this advocating behavior as being pushy or entitled. I think it is being a responsible parent.</p>
<p>We also have many parents who donate huge sums of money to their public schools and devote countless hours of volunteering, and the school’s excellent reputations and student outcomes are reflective of that commitment. Those parents probably feel some ownership of the school as a result of their sacrifice, and I think that is okay and deserved, and they should be able to voice their opinions about school operations without being labelled in a derogatory manner.</p>
<p>Also, while most of our teachers are very good, there are a few bad apples who probably deserve to be demeaned by parents, and perhaps this will encourage them to retire. No love lost there.</p>
<p>While those comments ARE OBNOXIOUS, that firing would not happen at my high school for 3 key reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It is still a public school. Unions and public school due process procedures. </p></li>
<li><p>Vast majority of parents and alums would STRONGLY SUPPORT teachers/principals who made such statements to overentitled parents. Unfortunately…that also means that some parents…especially 20+ years ago would have also supported that accursed teacher who tried to deny lawfully mandated accommodations for the older disabled classmate.* </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Part of that has been due to serious concerns that if such parents’ wishes were complied with, the high expectations, academic rigor, and fundamental fairness in treatment for all students would be severely undermined. Not too surprising when there has been a history of idiot politicians** and political activist groups who went so far as to try eliminating the NYC public magnet high schools dating back to the late 1960’s. Only the outcry of alums, parents, and the passage of the Hecht-Calendra Act of 1972 put an effective stop to such shenanigans. </p>
<ol>
<li>It is a magnet high school with a well-known reputation for its high expectations, academic rigor, and little/no handholding. There was enough publicly available information that almost every parent…especially the well-off parents from neighborhoods like the Upper East Side cannot claim ignorance. Moreover, child and parents must choose to take a highly competitive exam to get in (In the '90s, admission rate was around 5%…heard it is less nowadays). </li>
</ol>
<ul>
<li>Fortunately, there is more awareness of learning disabilities and the vast majority of teachers who feel learning disabled students didn’t belong at academically elite schools have been retired for 20+ years.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>At our school, a teacher who made the comment, “you/your kid can always transfer back to your local zoned high school” would have been fired on the spot and I’m not sure I would have wanted my child at a school where teachers are allowed to make such obnoxious comments.</p>
<p>Our district superintendent made comments like that- but she was referring to parents having the choice to move to private school if they didn’t like the way she was running the district.
She isn’t there anymore- but she didn’t leave before doing real fiscal damage to the district, not to mention how the district is perceived in the community ( & pit administrators against teachers & parents)</p>
<p>*As a parent of a student at a highly competitive and expensive private school, I agree there is no need to kiss up to parents. However, there is a great expectation that the school will be responsive to parents and students when they have concerns and that all will be treated fairly. That is, after all, why you are paying the big bucks. *</p>
<p>This was our experience, except our daughter was on very generous financial aid. Learning supports including tutors & ADD coaches were included in tuition.
It was a very competitive school for admittance but once you were there the supports were wonderful. ( we also were not aware at the time just how competitive it was- because the culture didn’t come off as elitist or restrictive)</p>