What do you get from ivy league schools that you aren't getting from top state schools?

What do ivy league schools offer that warrant a $20k+ per year price difference over flagship state schools? I am wondering because I would love to be able to go to an ivy or near-ivy league school, but I could never afford it. I am stuck with a state school. What am I missing out on by not going to an ivy league school? And will I regret not going (assuming I could get accepted which is another story)?

What is the main difference between schools like Stanford or Northwestern vs good state schools like UM Twin Cities and UW Madison? What are you getting from the more expensive school and is it worth it?

If you’re low income, ivies can be some of the most affordable schools. If you’re truly stuck with a state school, there’s not much point in dwelling on what might have been.

Agree, if you can afford a great state school then don’t anguish about other unaffordable options. So many people would love to have your choices.

In my opinion, you get bragging rights, and people you meet in life who hear where you went to college will automatically assume you are very smart

Your thread title mentions “ivy league” schools, but the two private schools you mention are in the Pac-12 and Big-“10”, not the Ivy League.

Stanford and Northwestern are not ivy league schools.

The difference is the student body. Top schools have MOSTLY interesting, diverse, really smart students with different talents. State schools have some (sometimes many) of these types, but not a majority like top schools

Regarding smart, academically prepared students, consider standardized testing overlap. 75th percentile scorers at UMD-CP, for example, out-perform 25th percentile scorers at Harvard. Stated differently, 6000+ UMD students would be at least middle range at Harvard by this factor.

@merc81 I’m not sure absolute numbers matters as much as percentages in this case. At UMD, you have 1 out of 4 students who are at that level (who you have to seek out?), whereas at Harvard 3 out of 4 students you meet/study/hangout with will be at that level. Big difference. – Do you want to be pulling others along, or in a place where others are pulling you along or at least running at the same pace? For example, right now my D is always the one in her circle that has to get her friends to study, and her college GPA is so much higher that she never tells them as she doesn’t want anyone to feel bad. Her friends don’t seem to be bad students, just average at her college - they seem like decent people and she’s happy and that’s what’s most important. But, sometimes I wish she was with students who would sometimes be the ones to pull her along when she needs it, rather than she always having to be the leader, if you know what I mean. Maybe that’s a difference between attending an elite school and an average one.

I have a kid who attends one of those elite privates, & it has been a very interesting experience. Students at this university often visit friends at a large & excellent public university that is a few hours away, & apparently it is common for them come back envying the state school students: their campus is livelier, the students are friendlier, the sports are better & students stay for the entire game instead of leaving at halftime to study, there is more school spirit, the parties are better & more frequent, the students are better looking & less nerdy, the college town is more casual and fun, etc.

So if you end up at one of those Big 10 publics or another similar university around the country, rest assured you will be getting the opportunity to indulge in a wide variety of top-notch social & academic activities, and there is no need to think you are missing much except a little snobbiness.

I would more access to professors and mentoring, smaller class sizes, in general brainier and more interesting student body and better connections. And of course bragging rights.
All that said, college is mostly what you make of it and top publics can also provide you with a great quality education and a great experience.

Much more personal attention from both professors and counseling services. In some cases more targeted recruitment. In some cases a more robust and helpful alumni network.

In some cases, of course, none of those things matter or even come into play. State flagships are great. @5amwe5t

No matter where you go, you get out of it what you put into it. Some people will squander the most amazing opportunity while another person will take whatever they can get and make the absolute most of it. It isn’t the place, it is what you do with what you have.

There are many differences among Ivy League universities and among public elites. For example, Columbia and Dartmouth are very different from each other, as are Brown and Penn.

Dartmouth will have almost nothing in common with the University of Michigan, other than the fact that Dartmouth’s president was a provost at the University of Michigan before he was hired by Dartmouth, but it will have a lot in common with William and Mary. On the other hand, Cornell, Northwestern and Penn will have a lot in common with the University of Michigan and UVa.

The major differences at an Ivy will be the famousness of your professors, the quality, quantity and accessibility of research on campus, the resources the university has, the recruitment opportunities, and the network you join by having gone to an Ivy. Additionally, students at Ivies all tend to be pretty exceptional (though that is of course not true of every Ivy student) whereas at a big state school you will find a much greater degree of differentiation between the quality of the top of the class and the quality of the bottom of the class. Essentially, the average student at an Ivy not only has better SAT/GPA/Class Rank metrics than the average student at a flagship state school, but they also had to have an extra ‘wow’ factor that allowed them to stand out for the sub-10% admissions rates common to most ivies (Harvard, Columbia, Yale, Princeton, Brown and Penn). So you end up being part of a community of highly concentrated talent and brain power that isn’t possible at a state school because state schools serve a very different (and probably more important) purpose of educating the American public broadly.

There is variation among the ivies, as has been mentioned. Some ivies supposedly have a more graduate-focused feel to them like Columbia while others like Dartmouth are purportedly more undergrad focused. But no matter which Ivy you attend, you will have access to a disproportionate number of the greatest professors in the world, the brightest minds of your generation, easier access to the most coveted jobs, and of course bragging rights. Furthermore, your network will be more national and international than it would be a big state school. For example, over 50% of Michigan undergraduate population comes from the state of Michigan. In contrast, only 18% of Penn students comes from Pennsylvania and only about 20% of Columbia’s students come from New York. And on the international front, only 4% of Michigan students are International students compared to Penn’s 11% and Columbia’s 17% international populations.

The ivies are also just smaller than big state schools and that can have a huge impact on access to study space, classes, professors, job/recruitment opportunities, chances at becoming a leader in the most prestigious undergraduate organizations, housing options, and much more. For example, UVa’s undergraduate population is a full 44% larger than Penn’s. And UVa’s undergrad enrollment is about 57% larger than Columbia/Barnard. Furthermore Michigan’s is a whopping 144% larger than Penn’s undergrad enrollment (even inclusive of part time students and non traditional programs like LPS). And Michigan is about 168% larger than Columbia/Barnard (also inclusive of part time students and non-traditional students). That leads to enormous differences in the student experience.

The vibe is also very different at a state school than at an Ivy, for better or worse. At Michigan you’ll have huge sports fans that really care about when they win or lose. At a place like Penn, the level of interest in athletics is much lower; students really only care if we beat Princeton. And at Princeton, students only care if they beat Harvard and Yale. And at Yale they only care if they beat Harvard. And at Harvard, they don’t really care who they beat but they enjoy reminding yalies of their inferiority :wink: . And at a place like Columbia, sports don’t really matter at all. Furthermore, most flagship state schools are not in big, urban environments whereas most ivies (Harvard, Penn, Yale, Columbia, and Brown) are all in cities of varying fun and quality. It would literally be impossible to compare a place like Ann Arbor to cities like Philly, Boston and New York- the sheer size of those three cities and the opportunities for cultural enrichment, internships, access to each other as well as other major and minor cities like DC and Baltimore, access to important speakers who are just passing through the city and choose to make a speech-- it’s all simply not replicable outside of these extremely populous metropolitan areas.

There is also going to be some elitism at the ivies that you won’t find at state schools. The NYT just pointed out that there are more students from the top income bracket at schools like Dartmouth, Yale, Princeton, and Penn than there are from the bottom 60%. At the ivies, you’ll be in very close proximity to the heirs and heiresses of massive fortunes and hyper famous political families. For example, at Penn’s most recent commencement, both Joe Biden and Donald Trump were in the audience because Biden’s granddaughter and Trump’s daughter were both graduating from Penn’s College of Arts and Sciences. I believe Caroline Kennedy’s son and Senator Rob Portman’s son both graduated from Yale in 2015. Emma Watson graduated from Brown with Kevin Bacon’s daughter. Put simply, it can be a little jarring for an average, middle class kid because the ivies are pretty small and attract this disproportionate number of wealthy/famous students that you inevitably interact with on a regular basis. But that also leads to an impossibly strong and varied network after you graduate.

Finally, after graduation, when you’ve graduated from an Ivy you’re part of the broad network of ivy alums. Ivy alums consistently hold ivy-only networking events and share information about job opportunities with one another. It’s easier to navigate the most elite professions when you’ve gone to an ivy because you’re entrenched in a community that, for better or worse, has a disproportionately strong influence on those fields. And there are social benefits too: ivy only mixers, access to the Alumni Clubs in NYC and around the world, reciprocal benefits at the other Ivy clubs, etc. etc. etc.

But while the ivies do provide a particularly unique experience, it’s also important to keep in mind that you can be extremely successful and fulfilled at a state school as well. Numerous studies have shown that if you are qualified to get into an ivy but you choose to go to a state school, you will still be extremely successful because most opportunities in life are created by hard workers who put their noses to the grindstone and make something of themselves. Sure, if you want to break into the most elite job markets right out of undergrad it will be easier to do from an ivy; but there are a million ways to lead a good life and where you go to college doesn’t define you by any means. America is privileged to have some of the ABSOLUTE best state schools in the world (Berkeley, Michigan, UVa, William and Mary all come to mind), and bright, talented students to fill them. Go to the schools you can afford and that will make you happy- those are the best kinds of colleges to attend.

I think who you go to school with can make some difference.

On the negative side, if your class curve is formed with a class composed largely of very intelligent high achievers, the work demands can be tougher. On the positive side, this may instill better work habits, which may help in future endeavors, and may be recognized by employers.

Also the motivation level of fellow students may rub off, to some extent or another.

I have three kids.

The oldest attended an LAC known for producing many future PhDs. To this point she is a perpetual student.
Though she has supported herself, at subsistence levels, at various times.

The middle one graduated from Cornell and has been self-sufficient and self-supporting from the day of her graduation… Her Cornell degree was likely highly influential in her getting her current job, since they seemingly hire “higher pedigree” types outside of their local area…By test scores she is the least intelligent of the three.

The last one graduated from a state university and is basically floating around, goal-less. Hanging around with like others from his high school and his university.

So that’s my personal, limited, not statistically significant, sample.

Let me say from my understanding, though these points overlap with those of the previous poster.

There are two different issues: public vs. private, and more selective vs. less selective.

The student to faculty ratio is quite different between private and public schools. So, public schools tend to run undergraduate program in one of the two ways: either use very large classes, or heavily use lecturers/adjuncts for instruction (some might do both). The consequence is that tenure-line faculty rarely has a direct interaction with undergrads. Note that this advantage applies to not-so-top private schools also. Or, even a top public school like Berkeley has this disadvantage. In terms of what it translates for undergrads: it means having a harder time getting research opportunities or benefiting from Professor’s contacts for jobs or grad opportunities.

The second issue is of selectivity. A stronger peer group makes classes more challenging (hopefully molding you for better in your formative years), and makes you more ambitious. A less intellectual and more party-oriented peer group can have a negative impact.

Both these factors apply when comparing an Ivy League school with a not-absolute-top public school.

“famousness of your professors” – a college kid wrote this? Let me guess: a legacy Ivy Leaguer :wink: ?

Meh. I don’t expect people to care about using perfect English on a message board post.

Hey @katliamom - I think you were referring to my post. And to horrify you a little more, I’m not a college kid, I’m a college graduate! On top of that, I wasn’t even a legacy applicant!! Shocking, right? :stuck_out_tongue:

But all that being said, famousness is indeed a word and it’s used appropriately there. Though I am 100% guilty of many grammatical and spelling errors on here as I rarely read over what I write on college confidential.

@osuprof was spot on. There is a difference in resources between Ivy schools and most state flagship universities. That difference has implications on teaching quality (e.g., class size, whether you can have enough credit hours to graduate in 4 years), amenities, student service, research support, summer activity support, etc.

Another thing is that the student quality tends to be more consistent at Ivy schools than in a typical state flagship university. On this, it depends on one’s preference about whether this consistency really matters or is desirable.