@ucbalumnus : Well, there’s some percentage of students, x, that an LAC would need to accommodate in intro coding on a yearly basis. With one section in both the fall and spring (the general minimum), that figure (with a class size of 26), could be greater than 10%. With two sections per semester, the figure could exceed 20%, etc. In this scenario, some estimation of actual demand would be needed to determine sufficiency.
At some well-off LACs, if there is strong demand for a certain intro course like CS, they just add another section to make sure that everyone can take it. They have the faculty and the facilities to have such flexibility.
Likewise, when a class appears large, it often is not as large as it seems. For example, my daughter had an intro Econ class where the lecture had 60 students, but there were three professors rotating giving the lecture, with each leading a smaller discussion section of 20 students and grading all their work. That is very different than the typical large intro class at a state flagship, where there will be several hundred students with one professor.
^ They have TA’s (many of whom will go on to be profs at LACs). And TA’s would be at any mid-sized or larger Research U (both private and public), not just giant state flagships. BTW, this is where the grad school quality of a research U would matter as the better ones would get better TA’s as well.
Anyway, it depends on the resources of the LAC also. There are some with all of 2 CS profs. Their CS offerings would be limited, as you may gather.
Cite? Rather than “many,” I suspect that population is actually “vanishingly few.”
My son attended UCB and my daughter is currently at Vanderbilt.
She was accepted as a Regents Scholar at UCLA but chose Vandy which was about half the price with their generous aid.
They are both STEM majors and there is no contest that she is having a far superior college experience in every way.
Geographical diversity, small class size, professor availability, advising, career fairs, ease of study abroad…all superior.
I wonder why so many OOS want our state schools??
Most are over-crowded, impacted, and over-rated for real undergraduate experience.
Just one family’s thoughts.
@marvin100: Matter of interpretation.
True, most do not go to teach at a LAC.
@dragonmom3 My daughter received similar comments from others when applying 2 years back, basically telling her she should go to Cal for grad school but not undergrad. Like your D, she decided to go to a good private that gave generous aid and thus cheaper than UC even instate.
Exactly.
I don’t get people’s obsession with UCB and UCLA especially.
100,000+applications…
And Berkeley is now busing kids off campus for dorms and class!
Maybe for grad school but I’m not even sure about that any more.
CA is a mess all around.
(as a counterpoint, I know a lot of people who had great experiences at Berkeley and UCLA, both of which are tremendous schools and great values for in-state students)
$35,000 for instate middle income families is not a great value to us.
Our net cost for Cornell, Duke, Santa Clara, USC and of course Vanderbilt came in slightly to significantly less.
@dragonmom3: There’s a wide distribution of incomes.
For some folks, the UC’s are the only affordable schools in the top 30.
UCLA and UCB are the most affordable in state schools for many CA families and both are outstanding schools ranked in top 15 world universities for a reason. Saying that my own D16 turned down Regents at both for a private school in a top two. Here what she sees so far: resources that absolutely would not be available to her at our state schools from free tickets to a world class conferences and events with $300 stickers price to a funding the product her team is working on, from free patent and business consulting to a large alumni network. And of course no problem with class registration and communication with professors.
And I read about the busing to dorms and classrooms. Seems that there are pro’s and con’s (smaller classes and thus more faculty attention in the classes in SF; tighter bonds among the Cal students staying in some other college dorm).
Personally, I think it all comes down to norms. In other countries, even at prestigious unis that are in the top tier in their country, living with students from other colleges in an off-campus dorm far from classes is normal, commuting an hour on public transport to uni is normal, and commuting across a giant metropolis (because the classes and dorms are scattered across that metropolis) is normal. Yet those unis also turn out many alums that go on to be movers and shakers.
BTW, sending some freshmen abroad first is also something that some prestigious privates do.
I didn’t mean to knock Cal & UCLA - my dad and 3 siblings all graduated from there and have nothing but good to say about them - but the remains that there can be better value to have had at privates that offer generous aid making it comparable price-wise and in a much smaller setting with greater access to resources.
Part of the issue is international enrollment, which was ~3% of students 10 years ago and ~20% today (and rising).
@insanedreamer The UCs and state flagships are only comparable to privates cost-wise if the family qualifies for substantial financial aid. (Sorry pet peeve about this reasoning given by many).
@itsgettingreal17 or gets a lot of merit aid (or both); but yes, you make a valid point
Most advantages were covered by previous posters so I’ll just add one. If you go to a top school then that that name pretty much works as a business card. By uttering one word, people understand where you stand IQ and work ethics wise.
My cousin rejected two Ivy acceptances and picked a full ride at their average state school for financial reasons, he says that more than other aspects, he hates that name of his school leaves need for so much to be explained because unlike top schools, it’s not a homogenous student body of intelligent, hard working, high achieving, accomplished and bound to be successful students so people don’t know where you stand.
Or, people understand where you stood as a junior or senior in high school.
Which, in the case of Ivy League colleges, might be presumed – if the logic of generalization were to be extended – to have been, for example, significantly below the level of future Caltech students, particularly with respect to quantitative skills.
There is very little reason to attend an Ivy for Eng or CS over a top public. Neither are the Ivies the best in these areas nor the classes (size) that lean. Very few privates do shine like MIT, Stanford, Caltech and CMU but the premium (+10-20k per year) is highly debatable for others for a full pay family like ours.