What Do You Guys Think as the Public Ivies?

College Search & Selection
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<p>UNC has much less income from tuition and more state money. A clear tradeoff for the state and the students. Both get to the same place but if you are instate at UNC it's a steal.</p>

202

<p>barrons: Right you are, but that NC state support is just another reason, too, why the in-state percentage at UNC-CH remains at 82%. Of course, I also think the UNC system is a relative bargain for out-of-state students as well. Tuition alone at UVA for out-of-state students is ~$26,000, compared to the current out-of-state tuition at UNC-CH, which is ~$18,000.</p>

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<p>UVa does have good fin aid for OOS. Don't know about UNC but it is a bargain if you can get in.</p>

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<p>How would UF be as an "Ivy"? Is it comparable to, say, Mich or UT or UVa in many fields? </p>

<p>How good IS Florida?</p>

<p>Also, which "public ivies" have the best Financial Aid for "Out of Staters" ("I like using "quotation marks"")</p>

205

<p>Short shrift -- much too short, in my humble opinion -- has been given here to Binghamton University, the flagship university center of the State University of New York.</p>

<p>Dubbed "the premier public university in the northeast," it more than lives up to its stellar reputation for having oustanding academic programs.</p>

<p>Widely overlooked, and in many instances unkown, outside of New York (perhaps because, for whatever unfathomable reason, the school does not have a football team -- odd for an institution that strives for a national presence), Binghamton's stats, rep, and postion in both the real world beyond college and among graduate schools is top notch, and getting better all the time.</p>

<p>Among those "in the know" -- particularly New Yorkers -- the sentiment is that there's no better bang for the buck than Binghamton.</p>

<p>Compared to Cornell -- New York's Ivy -- tuition is a mere pittance (even compared to Cornell's State "contract" schools), and, in fact, more and more students who have been accepted at both Cornell and Binghamton are opting for BU -- that's BINGHAMTON UNIVERSITY!</p>

<p>There's a saying among the educationally savvy in New York (and may the elitists be damned): "Smart kids go to Cornell. Smart kids with smart parents go to BINGHAMTON!"</p>

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<p>"in fact, more and more students who have been accepted at both Cornell and Binghamton are opting for BU -- that's BINGHAMTON UNIVERSITY!"</p>

<p>Official cross admit statistics that were released by the schools show otherwise. Look for them online and see. I lived in the transfer center at Cornell and it housed more ex-binghamton students than any other school. </p>

<p>There's a big stigma going around that binghamton is just an ivy league safety school and the students are generally unhappy ivy league rejects. As much of a 'stigma' that it seems to be, this had been confirmed by a bunch of my friends who are at binghamton (half my high school went there). </p>

<p>"Widely overlooked, and in many instances unkown, outside of New York"
And hence a major problem for students who are considering SUNY Binghamton. I don't think this has as much to do with a lack of a football team as the Ivy's are generally among the worst football teams in the US - yet, they are easily among the most esteemed schools in the US. Take away their football teams and not much will change. </p>

<p>"Binghamton's stats, rep, and postion in both the real world beyond college and among graduate schools is top notch, and getting better all the time."
SUNY Bing advertises about how they send students to 'harvard and yale law' and at their info sessions they made it seem like this happens to all of the best students at the school ... when, in reality, they send an average of 1 or 2 students to HLS every 3 years while the ivy's pump in 40-60 in the same amount of time. The same can be extended to some of the top jobs on wall street as my friends at SUNY bing do not have access to them while I do at Cornell (this is comming from their experiences, not me). </p>

<p>I don't think SUNY binghamton is really up there in the 'public ivy' category, unless you're including like 20 schools total.</p>

207

<p>although USC is not a public school, a case could definitely be made that it is on par with the public ivies or even the ivies themselves. Where do you guys feel USC stands amongst the Ivies and the Public Ivies (specifically UCLA)?</p>

208

<p>USC is a not on par with any of the public ivies especially UCLA in my opinion.</p>

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<ol>
<li>UC Berkeley</li>
<li>Virginia</li>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>North Carolina</li>
<li>William and Marry</li>
<li>Wisconsin</li>
<li>UCSD
I don't agree with that at all. i think usnews ranking is one of the worst rankings ever..I'm sorry UVA is a good but don't deserve 2 place W&M ,UNC-ch are also misplaced
To be honest i don't think you can put uva, UNC,W&M in the same "bag" as UC-berkeley,UCLA,Umichigan,U of Washington these are powerhouse and in terms of academics, research...they are in another level...I have lived in 3 differents continents and those university have a impressive reputation...</li>
</ol>

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<p>I think that ranking is pretty valid when talking about undergraduate education. UVa has a really good undergrad program, more endowment (I believe) than Berkeley or UCLA, good advising, good networking, beautiful campus, etc. Research is only so important when it comes to grad school, which I agree UVa probably doesn't measure up to the Berkeley and Michigan type, but most people here are concerned about undergrad. Also, even though a school like Berkeley has great research, how many undergrads participate? Meaningful research? Especially when taken into consideration the size of the undergrad population? Sometimes you really have to fight to get a good research position.</p>

211

<p>
[quote]
although USC is not a public school, a case could definitely be made that it is on par with the public ivies or even the ivies themselves. Where do you guys feel USC stands amongst the Ivies and the Public Ivies (specifically UCLA)?

[/quote]
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<p>I think undergrad wise, USC is on-par with UCLA. Personally I think UCLA has a slight edge but USC has been making good improvements recently and getting more than its share of donations.</p>

212

<p>
[quote]
To be honest i don't think you can put uva, UNC,W&M in the same "bag" as UC-berkeley,UCLA,Umichigan,U of Washington these are powerhouse and in terms of academics, research...they are in another level

[/quote]
</p>

<p>nope. If you put students from WM, UNC or UVA up against students from Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan and U of Washington (really?) and they would hold their own fine.</p>

<p>Grad schools are another issue. But grad school won't matter to an undergrad.</p>

213

<p>Are you comparing profs or students? Profs that get the research grants are considered the best in their area. That knowledge is what you are paying for. You can always find plenty of smart kids at any major school.</p>

214

<p>
[quote]
To be honest i don't think you can put uva, UNC,W&M in the same "bag" as UC-berkeley,UCLA,Umichigan,U of Washington these are powerhouse and in terms of academics, research...they are in another level </p>

<p>nope. If you put students from WM, UNC or UVA up against students from Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan and U of Washington (really?) and they would hold their own fine.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I too am wondering how the heck UWashington somehow got into that 'big bag'. What's up with that? </p>

<p>I think one might be able to dispute the presence of UNC into this so-called 'big bag', but to dispute Virginia? Really? Virginia is (with Berkeley) arguably the best public undergrad school in the country.</p>

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<p>no way U Washington is on par with UVA, UMICH, or Cal</p>

216

<p>This may have been said, but the whole idea of "public ivy" is absurd. There are many fine flagship public universities. I am sure all have been mentioned. None, none, none, however is an Ivy, and none is Ivy quality. It is like the recent hype trying to advance some schools, mostly private, as "just as good" as the Ivies, aka the "new Ivies." This is clearly just to palliate a public upset when little Johnny or Jill cannot get into an Ivy and to salve the wounds of paying even more for tuition owing to less generous financial aid. Quality is not the exclusive province of the Ivy League, but trying to bootstrap its cachet is just pathetic.</p>

217

<p>word, redcrimblue, word.</p>

218

<p>"Quote:
To be honest i don't think you can put uva, UNC,W&M in the same "bag" as UC-berkeley,UCLA,Umichigan,U of Washington these are powerhouse and in terms of academics, research...they are in another level </p>

<p>nope. If you put students from WM, UNC or UVA up against students from Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan and U of Washington (really?) and they would hold their own fine. </p>

<p>I too am wondering how the heck UWashington somehow got into that 'big bag'. What's up with that? </p>

<p>I think one might be able to dispute the presence of UNC into this so-called 'big bag', but to dispute Virginia? Really? Virginia is (with Berkeley) arguably the best public undergrad school in the country"
The only problem here is most of you guys have the "USNEWS RANKING" disease...A person see what they want to see...i'm not saying that UW is better than UVA i'm just saying that make no sense comparing both and that UVA may not be as "USNEW" claim it to be.Do some research ask a college professor(not your school counselor not some random kid ate school)this simple question :How would you compare and rank for exemple UVA and Umichigan, or W&M and let's say UT-austin....Listen carefully what he will say!!!I've been there done that....</p>

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<p>"This may have been said, but the whole idea of "public ivy" is absurd. There are many fine flagship public universities. I am sure all have been mentioned. None, none, none, however is an Ivy, and none is Ivy quality. It is like the recent hype trying to advance some schools, mostly private, as "just as good" as the Ivies, aka the "new Ivies." This is clearly just to palliate a public upset when little Johnny or Jill cannot get into an Ivy and to salve the wounds of paying even more for tuition owing to less generous financial aid. Quality is not the exclusive province of the Ivy League, but trying to bootstrap its cachet is just pathetic."</p>

<p>that is just a dumb statement. the best public schools are most definately comparable to the so called "ivy league". this isn't even debatable, imo. obviously certain schools have stronger programs than others, but you'll be hard pressed to pick an ivy league school that is obviously superior to one of the premier public schools in <em>every</em> area. if that isn't good enough for you, then just look at peer assessment scores. uva, cal, michigan, and ucla all have peer assessment scores the same as or higher than at least 1 school in the "ivy league."</p>

<p>also, these comments about the "USNEWS syndrome" or the "this x university is more undergrad focused" blah blah blah - also just somewhat annoying statements.</p>

<p>the facts are the usnews rankings, just as well as any other ranking, rank 1 thing - how well each school does according to its methodology. without a doubt one could create or manipulate a methodology in any way to get any school uptop, and any school at the bottem. </p>

<p>also, fwiw, to compare uva and w&m to schools like cal, michigan, wisconsin, and uwash, is a little unfair. of course they overall have better <em>graduate</em> programs, they have much larger research expenditures and therefore have more grant money and such. barrons im sure can verify this, but isn't wisconsin's research expenses something like 500 or 700 million/yr? uva's is around 100 million. w&m's im sure is far less than that. how are they supposed to compete? however - i don't think this affects the quality of an undergraduate education. ive found that the professors who publish the most stuff tend to just make you read most of their stuff.</p>