<p>Alien,
I know a lot of good, hard working people in high positions of responsibility who are not liars.</p>
<p>True, but that is definitely rare.</p>
<p>geez, i didn't mean anything to offend anyone. the only reason i said that was because last year, i was sick for 2 weeks and i missed all the meetings in which they hold elections for officers. now, i'm very involved in these clubs but since i wasn't at the meeting i don't have a position in any of them. so basically, i have like no leadership to show colleges. that's the only thing i planned on lying about.</p>
<p>usually the things that u dont get caught lying for arent worth mentioning (if ur applying to ivy)</p>
<p>Cheetah,</p>
<p>It is better to just tell the truth. List your clubs, hours per week, weeks per year and you can note below that your were sick during elections and that is why you don't have leadership positions. Or perhaps you can have your GC note this on your records. It shows leadership to tell the truth.</p>
<p>Alien,</p>
<p>"Liars always end up above the the hard-working people." </p>
<p>I feel sad if you really believe that statement.</p>
<p>Of course its true. Isnt it obvious? I know working hard and being honest is the "right" thing to do, but no way is one going to achieve a personal if he doesnt cheat in one way or another. From a valedicroian cheating on an exam to maintain his rank to a top ranked political leader winning an election, all cheat to get what they want. It is the hardworking people than end up working under these people. Of course its not true for all the cases, but it is so for the majority. I'd say if you are smart enough to to lie and get away with it, then by all means do so. For every one person you claim acheived his/her goal with honesty, I can mention 10 people who have done so by cheating. Obviously cheating is wrong, but its a matter of "survival of the fittest."</p>
<p>Character is who you are when no one is watching. So basically you are saying that you should be a cheater because the ends justifies the mean and every one does it. Yes some people cheat and never get caught while others cheat and pay heavy consequences. If you were to get caught can you man up and accept the consequences?</p>
<p>To me it seems that you are waiting for someone to give you a socially acceptable answer and to say that it is ok to cheat, but anyone who is the least bit ethical or has a drop of personal integrity is not going to tell you that it is ok.</p>
<p>When you take short cuts you often end up being cut short. If you chose to cheat, life will eventually catch up with you, ask Tom Delay.</p>
<p>Honesty is the best policy ....</p>
<p>This is a very popular topic on this forum. I have seen similar threads several times. It starts out as an academic exercise, wondering if adcoms actually verify information or not. Then the threads typically turn into a discussion of lie vs not lie. And then I always say the same thing.. (sorry , here it comes again)</p>
<p>Even if you are 100% sure the adcoms will not verify your ECs it still is not worth it for you to lie, even if you don't have a conscience. You're going to college to get a great job, right? What if you succeed beyond your wildest dreams and get a very high profile job? Maybe a government job that requires security clearance. Maybe a political appointment that requires Senate confirmation. An FBI background check or a nosy reporter 10 years after graduation could turn up "inconsistencies" on your college application, which could ruin your career. Look at Mike Brown. I believe he said he had experience as an "Assistant City Administrator" but the City says he was actually AN Assistant TO the City Administrator..... more like an intern, although he was a very very good intern. The guy looked like a fool. It's really not worth it, but if you want to lie by exaggerating your ECs it doesn't bother me because it won't really make any difference in the admission decision. </p>
<p>What idad posted earlier, let me translate for you: Admissions officers view all those activities and offices with great skepticism! I wonder if they know that our HS lacrosse team had eight captains last year!</p>
<p>Kids who lie have very little self-confidence. I sometimes think this is both a cause and effect. They lie because they don't think they're good enough, and by lying, they prove it.
In the end, it's the lack of confidence that will keep you from succeeding - even in your own eyes.</p>
<p>Worth repeating:</p>
<p>"They lie because they don't think they're good enough, and by lying, they prove it."</p>
<p>The only lies that irk me are the kids (several at my HS) who were 1/16th Mexican or Native American, had names like (and I kid you not) George Blake, and have absolutely no contact with "their" culture yet check the URM boxes anyway.</p>
<p>Saying you were in chess club or lying about the number of hours you set up for the school dance recital isn't going to have any impact whatsoever on 99.9999999% of applications. Lying about your race can turn you from an application that gets laughed into the trashed into a "clear admit".</p>
<p>" Lying about your race can turn you from an application that gets laughed into the trashed into a "clear admit"."</p>
<p>Lying about your race is much more likely to turn one's application into a clear reject or to result in one's admission's being rescinded. That's because a lie about one's race is likely to be found out.</p>
<p>NSM-- I'm part native american indian, but I look pretty white. I do, however, have high cheekbones, deep set eyes, and a broader face (not super broad or anything) would it be a bad idea to check that race along with white? My skin is quite fair, but I tan extremely easily. I used to have blonde hair and blue eyes but now I have brown hair and green eyes as I've gotten older. Any suggestions?</p>
<p>People who are Native American Indians usually have a certificate that certifies that they are actually NSM - and also you have to be able to trace yourself back to a tribe. Otherwise, it won't help you.</p>
<p>It would only be a good idea to check "Native American" if you have some actual affiliation with a tribe. Lots of people, myself included, are part NA, but other than having a distant ancestor who was NA do not have any real affiliation or identification with being NA, so don't check that box.</p>
<p>Why would you want to lie? You should get into a school not based on your race but on your scores - because that's just cheap. And if they found out that you lied, then kiss your chances of going to college goodbye.</p>
<p>Personally, I would never lie on a college app. I may have padded hours or something by accident, but nothiing on this scale.</p>
<p>This thread, however, is about kids lying to try to improve their chances. All I was saying is that lying your way to club membership or student body president isn't going to effect the outcome of your application; lying about your race will. If you're going to lie, that's the way to do it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
because that's just cheap. And if they found out that you lied, then kiss your chances of going to college goodbye.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's not a lie if you're 1/16th! [/sarcasm]</p>
<p>My grandmother was 1/2 Mexican and lived in Mexico. I am 1/8 Mexican but I have a French name. My cousin, having the same amount of Mexican blood as me looks Mexican and is often mistaken for one. She did not check the box, nor am I.</p>
<p>"I may have padded hours or something by accident, but nothiing on this scale."</p>
<p>Wow! You're not just lawschoolbound, you're a lawyer in training :)</p>