<p>Business gets a lot of bad rap. Much of that is fair. Pharmaceutical companies engage in a lot of questionable practices in terms of influencing doctors. It's one reason why medical schools are so concerned about industry influence.</p>
<p>A lot of venture capitalists (particularly in the IT) area are focused on.. in my opinion... not too useful start-ups... Web 2.0 junk. Fair enough.</p>
<p>But that doesn't change the fact that we need people (idealists) who are willing to look beyond that cynical reality, our best and our brightest, and endure it, and bring new inventions or technologies to the market for everybody to benefit. For those who are capable and passionate about that macro impact, I would feel bad for them to take the long route through medicine, and which might even take away their potential because of the time it takes. Those costs, if you are ambition in that sense, are seriously worth considering. This is both from the venture capital and the entrepreneurial scientist sides.</p>
<p>The birth of biotechnology and Genentech depended on a venture capitalist finding a molecular biology and saying... hey this is a cool idea... maybe we can use this to start a company, create recombinant insulin and help millions (although there's obviously a market for it). Money is simply a tool to create impact.</p>
<p>Nobody is saying that your daughter shouldn't go into medicine. I'm just saying for a certain personality... that I've illustrated... medicine is possibly just a detour.</p>
[/quote]
Who said anything about being a business guy like that fella in the infomercial? Many students hate the business side of the practice, much less being an entrepeneur. I have dealt with many. They are a special breed, that's for sure. Part showman, part shaman. "All ego, all the time" at least in my experience. </p>
<p>My daughter has zero interest in entrepeneurship. After her summer of shadowing and working with 3 docs, who ranged from one who went to a few meetings with partners, one who ran a small one doc practice with a retail element, and one who ran a rather large opthalmologist practice complete with retail store- she was certain she liked the least "business oriented" practice model best. </p>
<p>Edit: I see now after your edit that you have a special interest in that field. Sorry. I do not share your enthusiasm. I'm sure you find my comments much as I view some on this thread.
[quote]
I'm just saying for a certain personality... that I've illustrated... medicine is possibly just a detour.
[/quote]
On that I'm with you 100%. The folks who want to start a company and take it public to reap financial rewards need to stay as far away from the practice of medicine as we can get them. They should follow their heart.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My D's life is her own to live. If she suddenly decided to become a venture capitalist I would remind her of two things :
1) You don't have any capital to venture which means you have to sell your soul to someone who does.
2) You have a soul that doesn't need selling.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>????? What's the deal with this random red herring rant about VC? This thread is about those thinking about med school and medicine as a career. </p>
<p>On a side note though I would just point out that these venture capitalists which you seem to despise so much are responsible for supporting many American businesses and therefore many American jobs. If you'd rather they just all shut down their VC activities and went elsewhere then you'd have a lot of explaining to do for the millions of hard working Americans that lose their jobs (not to mention the end of America's prominence in innovation and development).</p>
<p>I just think medicine is too often placed on a pedestal. There's this automatic assumption that if you're among the "best and the brightest" you have to go to medical school.</p>
<p>There are all these myths through 2000 years of the Hippocratic Oath, and I just think that it's a shame that most people buy into it when there are other ways of helping people at a global level that are ignored.</p>
<p>
[quote]
On that I'm with you 100%. The folks who want to start a company and take it public to reap financial rewards need to stay as far away from the practice of medicine as we can get them. They should follow their heart.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The money isn't always the most important thing... in fact... the ones who go into medicine that aren't as "ambitious" in my sense... tend to be the ones concerned about the money... as I've said time after time before... since it's less risky. People who go to graduate school have potentially the most to lose.</p>
<p>You seem to insinuate that their heart's desire is money and financial rewards. You'd be surprised how often that isn't true. Some people... believe it or not... actually want to create new technologies that will revolutionize the way people live and work. Money comes secondary. The primary motivation is that impact. If you wanted just money, you'd take the easier route through Wall Street and work at an investment bank or (medicine) with guaranteed returns. The reason you play this lottery cannot be due to the money because you'll end up disappointed so many more times. Some invest their life savings into a dream - an ideal. Nobody with any common financial sense would do so. It's the opportunity to make an impact.</p>
<p>
[quote]
On that I'm with you 100%. The folks who want to start a company and take it public to reap financial rewards need to stay as far away from the practice of medicine as we can get them. They should follow their heart.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There does seem to be an overt fascination with money on this forum. If you talk to most people that have led a successful career in business or leading a company you'd find that they're not in it for the money. Obviously they need to care about money and keep an eye on the books (since if they don't their employees won't get paid) but their true motivation is almost always the intellectual challenge of developing a new technology or product and the massive challenge of turning that exciting new development into a viable business that, in turn, creates jobs (thus supporting families) and contributes to the American economy. If all they care about is the money then it's not very likely they'll succeed.</p>
<p>I'm sure he's doing great things. More power to him, but I won't treat him like a hero or a saint. He's just a very smart business guy with sales skill and some moxie.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you talk to most people that have led a successful career in business or leading a company you'd find that they're not in it for the money.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Bill Gates lives in a trailer? Have you SEEN that house? Get real. Sounds like one our sports heroes. It ain't the money. It's the Ferrari's and the women. LOL.</p>
<p>I can assure you, you stop giving a businessman a way to make money (or create wealth they can control) - they'll stop working. I'd like to think a professional wouldn't. Or at least some of them.</p>
<p>As far as Gates goes I may agree with you. I don't think it is the money. I think he's trying to take over the world. ;)</p>
<p>To rocket: (So we won't have any confusion this time as to whether I'm responsive or random.)</p>
<p>Random? Red herring? I was specifically responding to a post. Do you only read mine? <blush> Awww. Shucks.</blush></p>
<p>Here it is
[quote]
Well, that's assuming the dad isn't a venture capitalist or a scientist truly passionate about pursuing truth. I think you need to distinguish between ambition to advance within a preordained system, versus ambition to step outside and fundamentally alter a system.
[/quote]
It was only a couple above the post you quoted of mine, which was responsive to Phoenix. This one below just stoked the fire. </p>
<p>I maybe am not objectively enough vested in this discussion, but I never gave a rat's a$$, from a spouse's point of view, what kind of money or prestige came from medicine (and believe me, not much of either accrues to a pediatrician taking care of the poorest kids in Newark from the back of a van), but that's not what the OP was asking about anyway, was it?</p>
<p>It's really, really misguided, in my opinion, to dismiss any misgivings because, hey, you'll be rich and riddled with prestige, what's your problem, anyhoo? Or, to have a meaningless debate on who's sold less of his/her soul. I have personally met many soulless MDs, and many who are the next thing to sainthood in the good they have done. I imagine that's true of people, in general.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's really, really misguided, in my opinion, to dismiss any misgivings because, hey, you'll be rich and riddled with prestige, what's your problem, anyhoo?
[/quote]
Who is doing that, garland? Point them out and I'll be happy to respond to them.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Or, to have a meaningless debate on who's sold less of his/her soul.
[/quote]
As to the level of soul selling between an entrepeneur (or a venture capitalist -it appears VC is an approved abb.. Somewhat strange if you ask me. ) and a doctor (a professional) , that's just a fight almost as old as the earth itself. It's a backchannel argument brought up by Phoenix and I couldn't refrain from taking a turn or two around the floor. I did try to point out it was OT. But I couldn't resist it. My bad.</p>
<p>Hello all it's the OP here... (been here the whole time just haven't posted in a while).</p>
<p>curmudgeon, </p>
<p>You just seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder against those that make money through their own ideas and hard work. Some people get paid more than others, that's just the way it is. We live in a capitalist society and that's how it works. Many CEOs and executives get paid a lot more than physicians because that's what the market dictates. If top companies "only" offered to pay an average physicians salary then they wouldn't attract the level of talent required to fill the post and someone else who offered more would scoop up the talent. Obviously there are exceptions, but in general those driven only by money don't get very far... it takes ideas, innovation, hard work and talent. Unless you expect the US to switch over to a communist system then I don't particularly see how your comments are really relevant here. </p>
<p>In general though this discussion is very informative and we've been watching it closely. In regards to the 'ambition' back and forth that was going on this is something we've talked about and is a concern. I don't think it's a secret that a physician is, as someone said, a 'cookbook' style profession relative to other options for highly education individuals. I think there are some specialties where this isn't quite as bad but in general it is a concern.</p>
<p>Curm--I think the one I was thinking of was post #273, my friend Anxiousmom's, but I think that it kind of reflected the red herring the thread seemed to be chasing lately.</p>
<p>Your D, I am so totally certain, will be *fine *in whatever she ends up doing. No need for you to worry about the remarks of the less-directed (remember, I'm the one who's kid dropped out of his senior year!)</p>
<p>Well, OP that's the first time I've been called a communist in a long, long time. But not the first time. ;) Last time it was by an idiot Yaffer in UG. Now here on CC I've been called a lot of things but that's a new one. LOL.</p>
<p>And no chip, yop. I just respect professionals by and large more than I respect businessmen by and large. You can reverse that and if that's fine for you so be it. I call it like I've seen it. ;) Your experience could be different.</p>
<p>garland, I'm not "worried" just gathering info. It's just that some of the physicians seem so embittered, so despondent, so pitiful when talking about their profession I'm trying to learn why. That's all. I have no agenda. Other than my Manifesto, that is. ;) </p>
<p>Some of the docs are really p@#$#@. Maybe they feel they were sold a bill of goods.</p>
And this goofy rant is? LOL
[quote]
You just seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder against those that make money through their own ideas and hard work.
[/quote]
Who said any of that? Or disagreed with your 3rd-graders knowledge of capitalism? You could read that off a cereal box. Have you even ever met an entrepeneur? Ever represented them in fraud trials over a period of years? Well, I have. Please detail your personal experience with entrepeneurs ($10 million in sales and up, not mom and pops. Heck, $5 million in sales and up. ) that allows you to lecture me on who they are and what motivates them.</p>
<p>Well, I think I've said why. Maybe it just got too noisy around here. Regardless, I've presented our truth. Take as much or as little as is useful to you.</p>
<p>As the paltry little OP and "Junior" member of this forum I would just like to politely ask the so called "SENIOR MEMBERS" of the forum to take this little back and forth schoolyard fight elsewhere and try to keep the messages on topic. </p>