How do I advise my kid who "wants to help people?"

Parents Forum
1

<p>I've got a HS junior who doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up. All he knows is that he wants to help people. </p>

<p>Since 3rd grade he's always talked about public safey or law enforcement (police/fire/FBI). Since 8th grade, he's found psychology (counseling) intriguing. And now that he's addicted to House, M.D., (TV show) medicine is on the short list. </p>

<p>I don't mind that he's undecided. At barely 16 I want him to keep many options open. I'm just at a loss for how to guide him. For example, he hated honors Bio and vowed to never take AP. But, if medicine turns out to be more than a phase he's going thru, he'll probably need a taste of AP Bio as a senior. If I say so out loud, I bet he'll drop medicine like a hot potato.</p>

<p>Then there's the college search. Budgeting for grad school or med school will limit the undergrad search. But, if he's not serious about Psy.D. or M.D. then we don't have to be so stingy. I can't force him to decide now. Likewise, no one's forcing us to pay for an advanced degree; we really don't have to think that far.</p>

<p>We were focusing on LACs, with a few U's in the mix. He's already ruled out UMCP, and the other Maryland state schools are nothing to write home about (except St. Mary's, which we lump in with the LACs).</p>

<p>He's done the career profiles at collegeboard and with the GC, etc., and the results are consistent: compassionate, heroic, helping professions. So at least we know we're in the right ball park. Just can't take it any further. </p>

<p>Advice?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>my nephew just got his degree from an instate school- after taking two years of a fire fighter program. Fire fighting and police work are noble professions- but I have the sense that you would rather support his interest piqued by a television show, rather than something he has wanted to do for 8 years.
Study</a> shows power of police & fire officers as injury-prevention messengers | University of Michigan Health System
Maybe on nights house isn't on- he can watch * The Wire*. It supposed to be Barack Obamas favorite show ( and set in Baltimore) I just started watching it.</p>

3

<p>Clarification - He hasn't wanted to be a cop or firefighter forever since 3rd grade. Police/fire/FBI has merely been the evolution of his interests in public safey/law enforcement. FBI is the current consideration. Police and fire were his "little boy" interests. They're long gone. </p>

<p>Medicine is the newest (and most surprising) interest, which is why it might seem that I'm preoccupied with it. Unchartered territory.</p>

<p>H worked on The Wire and we have all seasons on DVD. Son prefers Law & Order. And now that House is in syndicated reruns, it's on every night...just like Scrubs :rolleyes: LOL</p>

4

<p>He could consider law school. I'm a former Deputy District Attorney, and I can tell you that it is very gratifying to obtain a conviction and see justice be done.
There is an unlimited need for pro bono legal help. I've volunteered over the years in consumer law clinics, domestic violence clinics, family law clinics, landlord-tenant clinics, and there are pro bono opportunities in every area of the law, regardless of what he chooses as a career.
Besides the District Attorney's Office (county level), there are great jobs available at the State Attorney General's Office (both civil and criminal law) and the Department of Justice.
Being a prosecutor is a logical combination of the desire to help people and have a significant impact.</p>

5

<p>What about being a teacher, or even more specifically, a special ed teacher? Go to the nytimes.com website and search on "autism" and you will find a few links down in the list a very illuminating blog by a special education teacher specializing in autism. </p>

<p>What about a degree in economics, agriculture, or ? which he could put to use in a NGO in the third world?</p>

6

<p>There are lots of medical careers that do not require medical school -
nursing, nurse practitioner or physician's assistant.
He could also think about Occupational therapy or physical therapy. Both of these now require doctoral programs.</p>

7

<p>Doug- I'm missing something. Most COLLEGE juniors have no idea what they want to be when they grow up, why does it matter that your HS junior doesn't know?</p>

<p>I would encourage him to get a strong education- investing in your own human capital is the single best investment there is- and let the vocational chips fall where they may. He should learn to write, think critically and analytically, be challenged by people who are different from him, and be inspired by people who know more than he. </p>

<p>Why would his college plans depend on whether he's going to be a clinical psychologist? and why would your ability to pay for his undergrad be determined by a poorly thought out plan of maybe sorta kinda going to med school???</p>

<p>Help him get a solid educational foundation. Once he's there, all the other stuff sorts itself out. I know at least a dozen physicians who hated HS bio so I don't even see that as a relevant data point. He can major in music or philosophy or linguistics and still get into med school as long as he's fulfilled the requirements (HS AP bio not being one of them) and scores well on the MCAT's so I wouldn't get ahead of yourself here.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
He could consider law school. I'm a former Deputy District Attorney, and I can tell you that it is very gratifying to obtain a conviction and see justice be done.
There is an unlimited need for pro bono legal help. I've volunteered over the years in consumer law clinics, domestic violence clinics, family law clinics, landlord-tenant clinics, and there are pro bono opportunities in every area of the law, regardless of what he chooses as a career.
Besides the District Attorney's Office (county level), there are great jobs available at the State Attorney General's Office (both civil and criminal law) and the Department of Justice.
Being a prosecutor is a logical combination of the desire to help people and have a significant impact.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I totally agree. In fact, I've mentioned it multiple times, most recently in 9th grade. I've since dropped it though, because he dismisses it with "I don't want to sue people." I haven't given up, though. I just know pushing the issue (even setting the record straight) is the best way to guarantee rejection. He has to come around to it on his own. I really think it's the best fit for him for all the reasons you list. (Plus he's a voracious reader and award-winning writer. Aren't those attorney essentials?)</p>

<p>
[quote]
What about being a teacher, or even more specifically, a special ed teacher? Go to the nytimes.com website and search on "autism" and you will find a few links down in the list a very illuminating blog by a special education teacher specializing in autism. </p>

<p>What about a degree in economics, agriculture, or ? which he could put to use in a NGO in the third world?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Teacher was among the possibilities when he was little. He hasn't mentioned it in years, though. I'll try to find out why. </p>

<p>I brought up agriculture once in the in the context of World Bank. This was back when he was considering a French major. He was polite and listened, but ultimately shook it off, probably because he saw it as too macro. (My word, not his.) He's really drawn to helping on an interpersonal level.</p>

<p>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::</p>

<p>All these career suggestions are very helpful. Thank you. </p>

<p>But I'm still at a loss for how to help him navigate the college search before he's defined his end goal. Is there any conventional wisdom that says "_______" is the best path for someone who MIGHT be a doctor or MIGHT be a lawyer or MIGHT be an FBI agent, etc., etc.? </p>

<p>As I sit here looking at what I've typed, it occurs to me that Psych might be the common link. Thoughts?</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
Doug- I'm missing something. Most COLLEGE juniors have no idea what they want to be when they grow up, why does it matter that your HS junior doesn't know?</p>

<p>I would encourage him to get a strong education- investing in your own human capital is the single best investment there is- and let the vocational chips fall where they may. He should learn to write, think critically and analytically, be challenged by people who are different from him, and be inspired by people who know more than he. </p>

<p>Why would his college plans depend on whether he's going to be a clinical psychologist? and why would your ability to pay for his undergrad be determined by a poorly thought out plan of maybe sorta kinda going to med school???</p>

<p>Help him get a solid educational foundation. Once he's there, all the other stuff sorts itself out. I know at least a dozen physicians who hated HS bio so I don't even see that as a relevant data point. He can major in music or philosophy or linguistics and still get into med school as long as he's fulfilled the requirements (HS AP bio not being one of them) and scores well on the MCAT's so I wouldn't get ahead of yourself here.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Excellent points, blossom. And I'm sure I'm guilty of over-thinking this whole thing. </p>

<p>I tried to type more to explain our dilemma, but couldn't find the right tone. So rather than risk a negative misinterpretation, I just thank you for your input. :)</p>

10

<p>What about a Master of Social Work (MSW)? I know the degree is stigmatized because of low pay and high burnout but if he's interested in mezzo/macro-level work (policy, management) in a nonprofit setting, the pay and lifestyle is significantly better.</p>

11

<p>Psych IS the common link. Forensic psychology encompasses everything your son seems to like.</p>

<p>You cannot go wrong with a psyc major. You can get a job right out of college in the FBI or go on for graduate. I would go to the best undergrad school possible with a strong psych major BUT I would make sure that the college is strong in other areas just in case there is a change of heart.</p>

<p>There are summer programs in criminal justice, health and forensic science. Internships are crucial for finding jobs. Real world experience is crucial. I mean, I wanted to be a doctor but a health internship showed me that blood makes me sick, so that was out the window.<br>
Penn</a> Summer Forensic Science Academy | College of Liberal and Professional Studies at The University of Pennsylvania</p>

<p>I think Penn would be an excellent fit for your son. He could take legal studies, nursing (Forensic Mental Health and Victimology) and pre-med (these are very tough though) classes as well as major in Psychology. There are other schools as well but I just wanted to point out one.</p>

12

<p>Doug, why not throw the long range plan out the window for now? Focus on the non-academic things for a bit (rural, small, artsy vs. big, urban, into sports.... or whatever) and see what kind of list materializes. I don't know a single college in America that doesn't offer a major in econ or psychology or sociology or history or anyone of 20 majors that someone who wants to "help people" wouldn't end up enjoying.</p>

<p>If it were my kid (oh wait! it was! several times!) I'd focus on finding a college big enough to accomodate a range of intellectual interests and then let the process take hold. A kid who loves to read and learn and question is going to love college wherever he or she ends up; the ultimate career path sorts itself out many times over the course of the 30+ years post college.</p>

<p>I would not feel comfortable recommending a highly vocational degree for this sort of kid anyway- so once you've put Accounting or Nursing aside and don't need to apply to schools with a good track record of "placing" CPA's or RN's, the rest doesnt matter for now.</p>

<p>For the balance of HS your son's focus ought to be on defining himself outside of the eventual career path- what books does he love? What activities are really meaningful for him? How does he like to spend his time outside the classroom? Once he gets to college his opportunities will increase even more.</p>

13

<p>At his age I think the most important thing is to keep your options open and to explore whatever currently seems interesting. My old high school had a mandatory program where seniors do internships. The headmistress joked that she though it's greatest utility was probably that a bunch of girls learned that they probably didn't want to be vets!</p>

<p>If your kid truly hates bio, I wouldn't push the AP Bio. He can always take biology in college if he needs to.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
Doug, why not throw the long range plan out the window for now? Focus on the non-academic things for a bit (rural, small, artsy vs. big, urban, into sports.... or whatever) and see what kind of list materializes. I don't know a single college in America that doesn't offer a major in econ or psychology or sociology or history or anyone of 20 majors that someone who wants to "help people" wouldn't end up enjoying.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
At his age I think the most important thing is to keep your options open and to explore whatever currently seems interesting.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, yes. My heart is telling me you're both right. </p>

<p>Then my head chimes in and tells me that up to $200K is a lot to spend on "whatever." And it leaves nothing for a Masters of Whatever. ;) </p>

<p>...no no no. it's not just about money... I understand and agree with both of you... :)</p>

15

<p>Blossom is spot on. </p>

<p>When you consider how often college students that think they know what they want to do change their mind and their majors multiple times in college (not to mention the adults that do the same multiple times in their working careers, having someone say "I don't know", especially in HS, is pretty refreshing. </p>

<p>Think of it this way: What 16/17 year old student has had enough exposure to the various career choices that are around that the student could make an informed choice? Darn few, I think. </p>

<p>I think what is important is to make sure he continues to be exposed to a wide range of choices, and ends up in a college that gives him broad exposure to a variety of disciplines (i.e. not a place that forces a kid to declare a major on enrollment...). Often, college distribution requirements force students to revisit subjects they "hate". Guess what, sometimes they find the subject to be more interesting second time around. And if they don't, at least they've confirmed the disinterest!</p>

<p>Final note: Ultimately it will be his life to lead, and his to discover a path. Perhaps the hardest thing I had to do while my D was in college (she just graduated) was to sit back and let her make her own choices, whether it was courses, summer activities or what she is doing now. But if our kids are to become adults, we must step back, and the process should begin before college IMHO (begin, not finish, though...)</p>

16

<p>But you're being honest. That's okay. The money is definitely a part of the equation, as is the marketability of majors.<br>
While it might seem like a LAC would be an excellent place to study lots of different subjects and see what sticks, as well as a place to be nurtured and helped on to grad school, there is an (honest) part of me that thinks I would steer a completely undecided child of mine to the state flagship. (We happen to have a good one.) That way, the cost is lower and all the majors are there.</p>

17

<p>How about Political Science with a minor in Sociology (this is what my son is doing). He wants to work in Government-specifically in either National Security or Public Policy. He has completed two concentrations within his Political Science Major: World Affairs and Public Policy. He's also taken a few undergraduate Law classes. He's currently a junior in college and trying to decide on Law School or a Master's program in something related. He's also curious about learning more in regards to working for the FBI.</p>

18

<p>You know, this is another of those polarizing topics that pops up on CC a lot, and sometimes there is an unspoken assumption that just because there are so many kids who don't know what they want and end up just fine, the kids who DO think they know what they want are somehow anti-intellectual, limited in their thinking, careerist, mistaken or what not. Yes, they might change their minds . . . so what? What's wrong with encouraging your child to think about what they might want to get up everyday and do when they are adults and not just about university size, location, etc?</p>

19

<p>Doug, if you can afford to help pay for undergrad then do that. Do not lose a moment's sleep over not paying for grad school. By the time your son is 22 years old (if he goes right out of college) or 26 years old (much more typical these days... work for a couple years both for the cash and the experience) he will be an adult and will make adult-type decisions about grad school which include a cost/benefit analysis. The days when everyone headed to a Master's program to avoid a low draft number are fortunately behind us.</p>

<p>We know kids who have gone the bank loan route for grad school; fully funded PhD's by their institutions; ROTC paid med school which will include a surgery sub-specialty); employer sponsored Master's degrees; law school with public interest loans (if you take a job with the government or a non-profit after law school the loan is forgiven; if you take a corporate job you pay it back on a sliding scale based on your salary); Master's in education funded via a private foundation for teacher's willing to commit to teaching math or science. </p>

<p>I don't think anyone is suggesting you pay 200K for "whatever". You will pay what you can afford and what you and your son deem appropriate and responsible based on your other financial obligations, and if your son works hard and stretches himself, he will emerge a thoughtful, educated, ethical member of society who will give back in some way (as yet undetermined.)</p>

20

<p>Db- I don't think it's polarizing. I think of my neighbor who is a CPA and really enjoys her job. She is astonished and quite worried that her college freshman claims that he "hates' the business classes he's taking. They steered him into a vocational major at a school which offers little else; both parents are professionals and are happy and good at what they do; their son doesn't seem to share their interests. She nags me constantly to tell her the story of my life, if only to reassure herself that their son is not a bum because he hates his introductory finance class.</p>

<p>Parents like that often need reassurance from those of us who are out there in the real world that in fact, the late bloomers do find their path; I'm not on welfare even though I switched majors about 6 times in college and ended up with a BA in an obscure subject. I have been self-supporting from the time I was 21 years old; I love what I do even though I had never heard of it when I was in college let alone HS. If I had majored in education or nursing or aerospace engineering I would have made a lousy teacher/nurse/engineer. As it turns out, I'm good at what I do even though it took me many jobs and an MBA (not right after college) to get here.</p>

<p>Yes, kids switch majors all the time. Grownups switch careers all the time. I find the notion that a 16 year old can fathom all the ways that grownups earn a living quite absurd- maybe because I work in corporate HR. 16 year olds don't know all the possibilities out there, nor should they, in my opinion. Virtually all of our high performing leaders studied something that has nothing to do with how they earn a living. They studied poetry and psychology and semiotics and American Studies and art history and electrical engineering. Their education taught them to analyze, express themselves, to lead, and to question-- the qualities that my company values.</p>

<p>So yes- if you ask a 16 year old who likes to help people what they want to be, it will be dentist, teacher, vet, any of the professions that they've observed growing up and are familiar with. They are not likely to say that they want to work in supply chain mangement getting vaccines or clean water to remote villages in Africa; or to say that they want to develop computer models to better predict the efficacy of different cancer protocols in children; or to say that they want to create micro-lenders to empower women in India to buy cattle or looms to start their own businesses. Why cut off a kids possibilities by steering them to elementary ed or any of the obvious choices before the kid has explored the range of possibilities?</p>

<p>I don't think it's anti-intellectual- it's just reality. You choose from the range of options before you and if you've never met a bio-statistician, the likelihood that you'd pick that as a profession is pretty limited. Once you've met one- you'll be so sad that you hated bio in HS and never took another science course!!!</p>