<p>"Overall a campus should not be liberal or conservative(...), but should just be for an education, like O'Riely's no spin zone."</p>
<p>that was a joke, right? lol.</p>
<p>^ I honestly don't know. But if it's not, could we please let it slide. O.O</p>
<p>i honestly thought this thread had a productive and civilized derailment.</p>
<p>But a derailment nonetheless.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Non Ron Paul...approach to conservatism is neo-conservatism...Most Conservatives are Pro-gay, pro-abortion, don't believe religions should have anything to do with govt, etc.
[/quote]
Dr.Horse, Ron Paul is not a conservative - he is a libertarian. Further, all the beliefs you have listed could be either libertarian or liberal beliefs but would not be conservative beliefs.</p>
<p>For the sake of understanding, we should really just stick to the typical American definitions of liberal and conservative. No need to be pedantic and ignore the actual discussion of the thread.</p>
<p>In response to an earlier post, I didn't say that gender or lgbt studies were compulsory at Wesleyan, rather that they could be used to satisfy core requirements. This is also true at many other "liberal" universities. I have also heard that at Wesleyan, a student does not have to take a course on US or European history to graduate with a degree in History.</p>
<p>^^Wesleyan has one of the best History departments of any LAC (that's a term of art often used on CC to describe a college that predominantly grants baccalureate degrees in the arts AND sciences, i.e., a liberal arts college -- it has nothing to do with politics.)</p>
<p>But, yes, History is a big subject, so Wesleyan helps by dividing the subject into six concentrations: Asia, Africa and Latin America (AALA), United States, European, Gender History, Religion and History and, Intellectual History.
Ironically, among the concentrations I've just described, the one most likely to include courses in both American and European History would be Gender History since, last I checked, they have members of both sexes on both sides of the ocean:
Wesleyan</a> University - History</p>
<p>Johnwesley has a point, a liberal arts college could be very conservative. Liberal in this sense simply means studying a broad array of topics rather than concentrating most of your energy on a specific subject (like one might do at a place like Caltech).</p>
<p>
[quote]
In a history class at a conservative college the students would probably be required to read the original documents and writings and be required to come to their own conclusions about what they mean, rather than to study a more current, "enlightened" explanation of past events through the lens of likely liberal-leaning professors.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This isn't fair at all. Any rigorous history program, at a liberal OR conservative institution, will have students read primary source documents in their entirety and ask students to come to their own conclusions. Of course there will ALSO be secondary sources, and what those sources are/what their interpretations are will vary by school (and by prof within each school...there are actually some rather conservative profs even at Wesleyan), but it’s not like the only kind of historians that view history through a specific lens are liberal ones.</p>
<p>PS. They have a great books/classics type fo requirment at Reed, which is about as liberal as you can get :D</p>
<p>Jarn</p>
<p>If you actually understood politics you would know that Conservatives are Libertarians. The core of every conservative is Libertarian. </p>
<p>Read "The Conscience of a Conservative", to say Ron Paul is not Conservative is to say Barry Goldwater is not conservative.</p>
<p>You have such a skewed view of politics its almost funny.</p>
<p>NY times seems to agree with me
Ron</a> Paul - Presidential Election of 2008 - Elections - Candidates - Republicans - New York Times</p>
<p>This site finds Ron Paul to be the Most conservative man in congress
Is</a> John Kerry A Liberal?</p>
<p>He is also a economic liberal, which again makes him Conservative.</p>
<p>Get your facts straight.</p>
<p>Generally speaking, conservatives want things to stay as they were in the good old days, and liberals are open to, do not fear, and welcome change. This carries over to colleges.</p>
<p>At the same time, Ron Paul is liberal in that he wants to do away with conservative legislated morality, legalize drugs, and get us out of Iraq immediately.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Jarn</p>
<p>If you actually understood politics you would know that Conservatives are Libertarians. The core of every conservative is Libertarian.</p>
<p>Read "The Conscience of a Conservative", to say Ron Paul is not Conservative is to say Barry Goldwater is not conservative.</p>
<p>You have such a skewed view of politics its almost funny.
[/quote]
Wow, someone is snippy today. I think that you should probably learn something about politics. To claim that Barry Goldwater is the quintessential conservative is utterly ridiculous. Politics change over time and Goldwater stopped being considered a conservative in the '80s. Just about any government class you take (or any government textbook you read) will define libertarians separately from conservatives. How they define it will vary with some defining it based solely on government interference while others will do it based on issues of freedom vs. equality vs. order. Given that definition, libertarians favor freedom over both equality and order. Conservatives favor order over freedom and freedom over equality. Liberals favor equality over freedom and freedom over order.</p>
<p>
[quote]
NY times seems to agree with me
[/quote]
No... no, it doesn't. Did you even read it or did you just assume that it would back you up based out of a misguided idea that you're right?</p>
<p>
[quote]
This site finds Ron Paul to be the Most conservative man in congress
[/quote]
Yes, but if you read that website you would find out that it only covers economic issues - only one-half of the definition of a conservative.</p>
<p>
[quote]
He is also a economic liberal, which again makes him Conservative.
[/quote]
This statement speaks for itself.</p>
<p>Please, provide a source for this ridiculous claim. I can provide a source for the fact that you're wrong... I'll just grab the nearest government textbook on my shelf. Oh. The Challenge of Democracy, 8th edition. Here's</a> a graph off Wikipedia that is the exact same as the one in the aforementioned text-book, only with different labels. The textbook replaces "right-wing" with "conservative", "left-wing" with "liberal" and "populist" with "communitarian." It's called the Nolan chart - and is incredibly widely used - and it was created by a libertarian, David Nolan, to illustrate how libertarian politics take idea from both liberals and conservatives. It was published in an article called "The Case for a Libertarian Political Party" in 1971. How does it feel to know that even libertarians disagree with your definition of libertarian?</p>
<p>Being a liberal economist means hand off, as in classical liberal. I never said conservatives and libertarians were the same thing, but I did say every conservative is a Libertarian.</p>
<p>Yeah I read the article, maybe you should. </p>
<p>As fopr the other website, conservative means conservative. Voting no to everything except what the constitution states is about as conservative as you can get and I doubt congress only deals with the economy, or maybe thats what you have been taught.</p>
<p>Jarn you like the rest of the liberals, seem to continually think Conservatives == neoconservatives. Its not true. </p>
<p>sorry. </p>
<p>BTW Goldwater is the definition of Classical Conservatism, nobody disregards that.</p>
<p>vossron, but those are not conservative ideals. Liberal neocons tend to enforce ideas such as that, they are not the same as a true conservative based on the ideals of Locke, Goldwater, Paul, etc.</p>
<p>Ive never met a Conservative who wanted to limit drugs or prostitution, etc.... But Ive met alot of neocons who love to.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I never said conservatives and libertarians were the same thing, but I did say every conservative is a Libertarian.
[/quote]
Well, you'd be wrong. Political ideology is defined by both economic and social issues. Conservatives and Libertarians are the same economically but not socially.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yeah I read the article, maybe you should.
[/quote]
How about some quotes from it, then? "In today’s Washington, Paul’s combination of radical libertarianism and conservatism is unusual." They are too separate things.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As fopr the other website, conservative means conservative. Voting no to everything except what the constitution states is about as conservative as you can get and I doubt congress only deals with the economy, or maybe thats what you have been taught.
[/quote]
No, you misunderstand both me and that website you posted. They are only using a measure of how people have voted on economic issues in their liberal versus conservative numbers. They do not even take social issues into account. I'm not saying that congress only works with economic issues, but that the website only accounts for economic issues.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Jarn you like the rest of the liberals, seem to continually think Conservatives == neoconservatives. Its not true.
[/quote]
I don't think that. I know what the difference is. And I know what the difference is between conservatives and libertarians. Do you?</p>
<p>Seriously, Dr.Horse, use some sources for your claims. I would not think so low of you if you would be willing to get a source for these claims you make or, even better, admit when you're wrong. If you could provide even a few reliable sources for your claims, people would take you more seriously. As-is, you're a laughingstock.</p>
<p>This is a silly argument. Conservative and liberal have clear definitions in the spectrum of modern American politics. To derail a thread because of some desire to, for whatever reason, prove that the modern American definition isn't the only one is quite trivial. These definitions evolve over time, and rather than try to force everyone to use a relatively obscure definition, it just makes more sense to use the commonly accepted ones. Times have changed.</p>
<p>Most Americans see liberals as favoring government intervention on the economy (the direct opposite of a classical liberal, yes, but that's why we use the qualifier "classical") and a weaker military while opposing social government intervention. Conservatives are seen as the opposite: socially favoring government intervention and strong military while economically opposing it. Libertarians are seen as opposing all. I recognize these are overly-simplified definitions, but as a generalization they work well.</p>