What does required really mean?

<p>Since most of the colleges I'll be applying to either recommend or require 3 years of a foreign language, does this mean that if I only have two I have no chance of getting in?
I ask because I am loathe to take another year of French because the class at my school is pretty much a joke, and I feel like i'd be really wasting my time to even bother with it.</p>

<p>You should hang in there and get through the third year of foreign language. It could mean the difference between an acceptance and a rejection. Also, be aware that many schools require foreign language as one of their general ed requirements.</p>

<p>I actually already made a thread similar to this yesterday, but I was asking if having MORE years is beneficiary to getting in. (Can someone answer that?)</p>

<p>Does “required” really mean what it says, though? In the state of Texas, for those of my graduating class and earlier, you have to graduate with 3 years of Math. If you take anymore, they’re automatically considered as electives. In my case, I took Pre-Cal in junior year—but it’s not going to go on my transcript as a math course. It’ll go on there as an elective. Will colleges see this? :-/ Or will they only see that I’ve done a “bare three years”?</p>

<p>As far as electives/ core classes go I wouldn’t worry even if pre-cal is counted as an elective (which is done at my school, in Idaho), it’s not as though colleges aren’t going to check what electives you’ve taken. Having classes count as electives is probably more beneficial anyway because it shows that you’ve chosen to challenge yourself when you could’ve taken an easier class.</p>

<p>If a school “requires” a certain number of years of a subject, your chances of acceptance without that number of years is significantly decreased - if it’s a large school with lots of applicants, your application may be rejected before it even gets reviewed. Is there “no” chance? No one can say.</p>

<p>If a school “recommends” a certain number of years of a subject, your chances of acceptance without that number of years is also decreased, but no one can say by how much. Your application will be reviewed, but there had better be something on it that counteracts the fact that you have fewer than the recommended years.</p>

<p>At one information session this year (I think UVA), the admissions rep said, “If we say four years of ________ is required and you don’t have four years of _____________, don’t apply.”</p>

<p>My son is a rising senior now. There are a couple of colleges he will be applying to that say “3 years of a single foreign language is required.” When we were selecting classes for his junior year, I made a few calls to admissions counselors and asked them to clarify “required”. </p>

<p>After explaining my son’s rigorous AP core class schedule, ROTC class, and required elective credits for high school, there was no way for him to take a third year of Spanish without dropping ROTC (he is applying to USNA and for ROTC scholarship). ALL counselors told me not to worry about the 3rd year of Spanish because, in his case, having 4 years of ROTC would be viewed better for him and they would NOT disqualify his application for only have 2 years of a language. </p>

<p>If there are colleges that you are considering and they say “3 years required,” call them and ask. I’m sure there are colleges who actually do require 3 years, but I personally have found that the word “required” can also mean “recommended.”</p>

<p>When it comes to classes you can skip some stuff and be fine. most colleges recommend three of four foreign language years but i only did two and i was fine</p>

<p>

But I wouldn’t recommend telling them that you don’t want to take a third year of French because it’s a “joke.”</p>

<p>In reviewing my list of colleges, it seems that most actually recommend a third year; but it’s not just the fact that I don’t want to take french 3 (b/c I honestly feel that I won’t learn anything) but to try to add it to my schedule would be really inconveinient if possible at all. So I guess what I’m asking is how will colleges react if I can’t take another year because of scheduling problems due to orchestra (which is my main EC)?</p>

<p>If you are looking at a college that “require” something but you wish to do something instead–for example, if it is something you are passionate about or taking on more academic classes than are required to graduate from your high school–then not taking the extra class is OK, I think. I read a post a couple of weeks ago (sorry, can’t remember) about a mom that asked the admission about something like this. Her D had taken extra science courses (and done very, very well in them) but only two years of another subject; since the latter required 3 years, she got worried. The Adcom said not to worry about it.</p>

<p>So… that would be my advice to you. ;-)</p>

<p>However, make sure that you pitch in the admission process (essay, interview–whatever) your stance on this subject. If they ask you why you didn’t take 3 years of French, tell them the truth, whether it be that you chose to take a subject you were passionate about or other classes which you thought could challenge you more.</p>

<p>My S’s case doesn’t likely apply to very many but I’ll put it out here. His HS transcript will show “only” 2 years of Spanish in HS, the final year being AP Spanish Language. </p>

<p>His GC letter will note that he had NINE years of Spanish before that since he (1) Attended a language immersion elementary school K-5; and (2) Finished another 3 years at MS. Plus, in 5th grade he participated in a 5 week student exchange program to Guadalajara, Mexico.</p>

<p>S, BTW, is likely to be a math/science major so maybe the Ad Comm won’t care anyway, but I’ll have the sentences ready for the GC to cut and paste into her letter.</p>

<p>To OP</p>

<p>In your situation most universities ( if accepted) will require you to take the 3rd course in college, at least from what I’ve been informed.</p>

<p>If it’s required, that means you likely won’t get in without it.</p>

<p>If it’s recommended, you still could get in, but it improves your chances greatly to take it.</p>

<p>Just take another year of your language. A lot of students think it’s a drag, but honestly, if you have to you have to. Unless there is a better class that you want to take that is more rigorous and your GC is willing to vouch for you, but honestly, you’re putting yourself at greater risk by not taking the class.</p>

<p>I think CronusMom’s situation is different because her son would’ve had to drop another rigourous class which was very beneficial in his situation to have to take the 3 year, and there was no way he could fit it. The OP just doesn’t want to take French because she doesn’t like the way it’s taught./&lt;/p>

<p>Required generally means just that. Sometimes colleges will waive it for a good excuse. Not many actually require more than 2 years. Also, when they say the number of years required it means to complete that level of the language not that you must have that many years in high school. For example, completing 3d year high school level of a language in your freshman year of high school meets any 3 year requirement. Thus, in FindAPlace’s case above, completing Spanish AP counts as completing four years of the language. As to how much “required” actually means “required” it may vary but an example I know of is UIUC, which requires two years. They also say that they may excuse that for good reason (but “I’d rather not take it” is not the good reason they are looking for). Also, the number of students admitted in the last four years at UIUC without meeting the two year requirement is under 10 (that is total for all four years). Some colleges may make an exception if you submit a high SAT score in a language. Some may let you take a proficiency test if you know a language. Also, internationals from non-English speaking countries usually don’t have that requirement, instead their foreign language requirment is “English.”</p>

<p>One reason to continue taking a language is that it may help you in college. Colleges often have their own college foreign language requirement once you are in. However, some of them waive that requirement if you have four years of high school language (and sometimes three). In other words, you may be able to avoid taking language in college by doing more in high school.</p>

<p>“Recommend” depends on the college. High ranked colleges generally recommend three or four years and for those colleges it can be a disadvantage not to have it because everyone else who is applying is likely to have it.For mid and lower ranked schools with high admission rates it likely won’t make much difference.</p>

<p>Taking more than is required can sometimes help but it really depends on the situation. Another example from UIUC: in engineering, if you complete the thrid level of a single language in high school, the three semnester college language requirement is waived and thus having three years can be a minor plus because the admissions committee knows you won’t have to schedule language in college while trying to meet the enormous number of other course requirements for engineering.</p>

<p>^Thanks that was very helpful. I hope I’m not coming across as someone who doesn’t want to take the class b/c I’m lazy or think it’s dumb if I had a ton of room in my schedule I’d take it in a heartbeat (the teacher is nice and it’s ridiculously easy) - what I’m wondering is if I should go out of my way to take a class where you just watch a bunch of movies and do a bunch of pre-made worksheets?</p>

<p>Would colleges view/value a self-study of an AP non-native language (i.e. French) as 1 or 2 extra years of the class?</p>

<p>I really want to double up in sciences my senior year, but due to other class requirements for graduation, this would force me to drop french my junior and senior year (I would have to take the required CFL elective junior year and take the AP Bio in my elective slot for senior year). I sincerely do enjoy learning french and would enjoy self-studying it. But would this limit me from universities such as Duke, where it says that four years of a foreign language are strongly recommended?</p>

<p>Another related question: </p>

<p>I have read “2 years high school foreign language” required. Does this mean that any foreign language in middle school is not given high school credit? </p>

<p>Say you took Spanish I in 8th grade (middle school) and Spanish II in 9th grade. Would that satisfy the 2 year requirement or would a student need to take Spanish III to fulfuil the “2 years high school foreign language” requirement? </p>

<p>The same question for taking Spnish III in 10th grade. Would that level III class fulfill the “3 years foreign language” requirement if the level I was taken in middle school?</p>

<p>

Yes. The colleges you’re applying to won’t know anything about the content of the course. They will only know that you didn’t take the required or recommended number of years of language.</p>

<p>

If you take the AP test prior to applying (i.e., at the end of junior year or earlier), then that may satisfy a school like Duke. But simply stating, “I’m self-studying French” without backup proof means nothing and will not likely be allowed.</p>

<p>

No. High-school level foreign language courses taken in middle school are generally counted. Colleges usually mean “2 years of the level of a high school course” regardless of which school it’s taken in. Spanish 1 and Spanish 2 are 2 years of high school foreign language even if one is taken in middle school.</p>

<p>Of course, when in doubt, call the admissions offices of the schools involved for a definitive answer.</p>

<p>“High-school level foreign language courses taken in middle school are generally counted. Colleges usually mean “2 years of the level of a high school course” regardless of which school it’s taken in. Spanish 1 and Spanish 2 are 2 years of high school foreign language even if one is taken in middle school.”</p>

<p>Thanks for clarifying, Chedva. I’m still wondering, though…</p>

<p>My transcript will show that I took French II in freshman year; I took French I in middle school, which will not appear on my transcript. Technically, I only have taken 2.5 years of French while in high school (French II, III, and AP French, which is the half year). </p>

<p>Should I believe that colleges are going to see that I have French II as my freshman course and assume that I took French I before, or will they assume that I got into it because I had a decent knowledge of French already? Or will they just do the adding of classes on the transcript and think that something is fishy? Should I have my guidance counselor make note of the fact that I took French for six years before entering middle school? </p>

<p>For reference, none of the schools I’m applying to with class requirements have more than two years of foreign language as part of their requirements. The ones that want more than two years simply “recommend” them.</p>