What does "show not tell" mean?

Parents Forum
121

“In fact, don’t count on science fairs advancing one, if that’s one of the highlights.”

Ok so back to the MIT admissions blog:

“I attended ISEF for the same reason I attend the International Olympiad of Informatics or FIRST Robotics World Championships: because there are many students there who would love to attend MIT and who are well-matched to our particular institutions.”

Again this is the assistant director of MIT admissions saying ISEF (science fair) are well matched to MIT. He attends these things like a college coach attends a high school football game, to recruit. And just like in athletics, if MIT offers admission, you better believe Harvard and Stanford will.

You’re also the one that says look for what the college wants, it’s pretty clear MIT wants this kind of enrichment outside of class, and these typically have the same, if not more, time commitment than many ECs.

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“Well matched” is about the drive, the inquisitiveness, even the courage to try whatever it is, to explore. It doesn’t make ISEF a prereq. Nor will it overcome other issues.

MITChris also says there, “Participation in ISEF or other research programs is neither a requirement nor expectation of applicants to MIT; most of our admitted students did not do so. However, they can be great experiences for the right sort of student.”

Again, “right” is not limited to “the right for MIT” or imply higher admit chances. He mentions he didn’t know about ISEF in high school and if others don’t, he encourages them to look into this and other opps.

When I speak of what the college wants, it’s traits. Not some rote, pro forma, “I have to.” Lots of ways to mix and match and show the attributes.

123

It really helps to take the whole body of what the blogs say and imply, as a whole, put that together. Plus the many years of comments on CC by MITChris and MollieB. Eg, “applying sideways” is a bit misleading. No way baking or spending hours withan elderly neighbor is really any"hook" into MIT. It’s an extra dimension, one you should allow yourself to pursue…and one that maybe shouldn’t even be mentioned in the app. But it may ground you, be an avenue to other strengths and experiences.

Definietely not napping. And note the ‘sideways’ blogpiece talks about not admitting nuclear reactor kid. Certainly he was pursuing a “passion.” But it wasn’t enough. IIRC (from the whole story,) he did that to the excluson of some other vital things.

124

I think this thread has deviated into multiple sub-topics. “Show, not tell” would apply to all selective admissions, not just elite admissions. There are no magic, extra qualifications that student needs if they have the qualifications for entry into their not-crazy-impossible school – the advice just is meant to help the student improve their presentation. It means don’t just say “I love math” … the application should show what the student has done because of or in furtherance of their love of math. It doesn’t necessarily have to be special – if the kid participates in math olympiad that shows the interest, whether or not their school wins. But that participation could provide the basis for an essay – and not just the “I did this, we won” essay, but rather something more descriptive. The essay doesn’t have to be directly about the competition, it could be about the process of preparing, or lessons learned on the way to not winning, etc. It could be an essay that is focused on something very different, but just takes place within the context of the competition --which can then be using one essay to show multiple things.

But in the realm of single-digit admissions rate – MIT and the like – then the process of “showing” is the same, but the applicant is competing against others who have amazing stuff to show. Not necessarily award-winning stuff – but stuff that simply is impressive even without the “show” part. And the students who have that stuff are going to know it long before they get around to applying to colleges. So no, it isn’t a matter of ticking off a box with a list of something like “vision, activation, collaboration, and limit-testing” Those aren’t secret qualities against which every application is measured. They are examples of the things that a given student may bring to the table that the school will value.

These kids are not living their lives with the goal of getting into MIT. They are living their lives in furtherance of their own inner drives. It just happens that their inner drives and talents coincide with what MIT offers and what it is looking for.

So there’s an irony here, in the sense that you have a whole thread filled with people asking “what’s the secret sauce”— and its one of those things that if you have to ask, that’s an indication that you are likely already out of the running.

I’m the parent of one kid who had all that inner drive, and one who didn’t. The driven kid was breaking all the rules from very early on, and my parenting consisted mostly of an effort to slow the kid down. (Rather than assist with whatever new cockamamie idea the kid came up with, I’d put up barriers — I was always putting things off, hoping to deter my kid because she always wanted to do too much, too soon.) The driven kid wasn’t the math kid, so of course I have no insight into MIT … but I definitely do understand what that “limit-testing” thing is about. You can’t create it – and at least in my experience, it becomes evident very early in life.

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“It doesn’t necessarily have to be special – if the kid participates in math olympiad that shows the interest, whether or not their school wins.”

Well MIT is attending the national or international finals, not a prelim HS competition or the state or regionals. They’re looking for the winners, or at least the semi finalists and the winners.

“These kids are not living their lives with the goal of getting into MIT. They are living their lives in furtherance of their own inner drives. It just happens that their inner drives and talents coincide with what MIT offers and what it is looking for.”

I would agree with this, since they typically start in middle school.

126

Try rereading my post, @theloniusmonk

Paragraph 1: “not just elite admissions” - “not-crazy-impossible school” (translation: not MIT)
Paragraph 2: “in the realm of single digit admission rates” (translation: lilke MIT)

I think you are so stuck on MIT that you have forgotten that the vast majority of college bound students are not applying there. And that the admissions criteria for MIT are not universal.

So it really doesn’t further the conversation when you take issue with my paragraph 1 not-MIT statements by pointing out that the statement is not true of MIT.

And as to the “inner drive” kid I described – at least with mine, it did not start in middle school. It was evident at age 4. At least by the time the child was age 4 I was already in that “hold back and try to stave things off” mode. I’m sure that each kid is different, but for a lot of parents that inner conflict about how to keep up with a kid like that begins extremely early. Part of the parenting difficulty can stem from the kid wanting to do things or have access to resources that don’t seem age-appropriate. I’m not saying that all kids who eventually wind up at MIT are necessarily that precocious-- but I am sure that MIT sees many applicants who did fit that pattern.

127

I have to say that post #118 by lookingforward has one element that is among the most remarkable I have seen on CC: It offers an opportunity, at least for some, to look down on the “Bright Minds” at Harvard! Since the Bright Minds are taken with “less of the usual vetting,” a Harvard admit who was not among them can say, “Hey, I was vetted much more thoroughly than you were! You just got in on unidimensional grounds! Everyone knows that being one of the leading scholars of the future is not really that impressive. Looking like an all-round Harvard student is much harder to accomplish!”

There are many walks of life where once a person has reached a certain level of developed conceptual ability, further intellectual development is of no real benefit. The indicators of success are disconnected from the qualities that go into being a “Bright Mind.” I am not looking down on these career choices. Many of them offer more to the community (including the international community) than an academic career, at least in the contemporaneous time frame. While I have some skepticism about Harvard’s accuracy in the identification of the “Bright Minds,” I suspect that they are vetted just as thoroughly as other applicants, but that the vetting runs more deeply in one dimension, and less deeply in other dimensions than average.

To offer an example of what I mean by the contemporaneous time frame, the work done by the Braggs, father and son, to establish X-ray crystallography as a technique provided the structure of sodium chloride crystals initially. This would not be viewed as much help by most people. However, moving forward from the Braggs’ time frame, X-ray crystallography became one of the best means of determining the structure of biological macromolecules. The structure of DNA is widely understood to have greater significance than the structure of NaCl. X-ray crystallography can also provide hints as to the function of biological molecules. So it has become very important in elucidating biochemical activity, and consequently in drug design, which many people would view as beneficial to the community.

To return to the issue of crossing the academic bar, and whether there is any benefit in crossing it “higher”: In the majority of academic careers, the qualities shown by the “Bright Minds” are quite relevant, and more intense versions of those qualities are better. These capabilities can be developed over time–it’s not that they are fixed for a person, but it’s also definitely not that higher/deeper levels are unimportant! A minimal level of personal qualities does have to be reached, but presumably Harvard vets its “Bright Minds” for those.

When it comes to "if you have to ask . . . , " I believe that remark about the price of a yacht. I don’t believe it about figuring out what an applicant should be showing in a personal statement. There have been multiple caveats over time about what is not good to put in a personal statement that I don’t consider obvious. A lot of students have difficulty in writing about themselves, and could write much better statements on practically any other topic. One can identify some of the not-so-good ideas in retrospect (Pie Club! Visiting my grandmother!), but I could understand why even a possible Bright Mind might consider those activities more fundamental to her character than her academic undertakings.

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QM, aargh. Sometimes, it helps not to look for goblins. I’ve made it clear I accept H admitting a few hundred who meet one set of criteria, academic/intellectual brilliance/accomplishment (however H openly states it,) and not the larger menu.

One can’t just think theoretically, often with sympathetic leanings at the forefront. In reality, this fierce competition for a spot at a tippy to is one crazy game. Reality. You play by their rules or risk not getting in. You can show what they want or you risk not being what they want. If anyone can’t even dig into ‘what they want,’ it’s not going to show up in some email or the skies part and be revealed. They are not asking about your high school happiness or side interest in animals or so much love for a younger sibling. Nice, in life. Not criteria for acceptance to a tippy top.

And 40,000 kids in line for a handful of seats.

Bright Minds are relevant to H. But the rest of their “community building” is about more than that particular superiority. It has to do with the context in which the rest can bloom, too, how H or any other holistic college wants to lay that table. Not what some individual on the sidelines thinks is fair or nice or best for society. Believe it, tippy top adcoms know what skill sets and attribtes work in their environments.

The gauntlet you want to fling down is impossible to respond to. It sidetracks us.

129

In a different category of “show not tell,” sometimes being humble has been offered as an example of a trait that should be shown in applications to top colleges. But I would think that a truly humble person would not apply to Harvard nor to MIT to begin with.

As anyone who has been around CC for any length of time will be able to discern easily, lookingforward and I have different philosophies of the multiple purposes of college education. It’s okay. I strongly suspect that her philosophy is the dominant one at the “top” schools, as least as far as admissions goes–I am on the borderline of being certain of that.

But it seems somewhat odd to me to talk about “the context in which the rest can bloom, too” when speaking of the “Bright Minds” at Harvard vs. the all-round-great admits who are not in the “Bright Minds” category. I would say that in the overwhelming majority of American high schools, it is the all-round-great admits who are in full bloom. The “Bright Minds” don’t get that much attention–these days, in my observation–while the athletic student body president, who is a charismatic leader and is good at academics is casting shadows on everyone else.

There was an era in which there was special attention to quite bright students in American high schools, but I think that era is long past. A friend of mine who is an eminent American in a STEM field mentioned to me once that he had been identified through a talent search as “someone to watch.” A limousine picked him up from his home every Saturday to go to a special center for educational enrichment. There are a few organizations currently (like the Davidson Scholars organization) that pay attention to unusually bright students, but even they don’t send a limousine around to the student’s door.

It might help if one thought of highly developed conceptual skills as just a difference, rather than a “superiority.”

130

The discussion is actually very helpful to me in identifying what students should be showing, which is surely important to someone who wants to know the difference between showing and telling, even though it does not technically address the question of what “show, not tell” means.

CC can be tremendously helpful in identifying admissions philosophies that are likely to be held at the top schools. It can also be helpful in identifying elements of those philosophies that are at odds with each other. Then the applicant needs to make a choice.

For example, the importance of being “humble” has been stressed on CC recently. The importance of not being arrogant has been stressed even more over time. Yet Harvard has a post (with Jeremy Lin behind a chain link fence?) in which they state that they are looking for the students from whom their professors can learn most! This is a trap certainly for a STEM student, who should not go that way, no matter what he/she thinks he/she is showing.

If an applicant thinks about the underlying feeling behind writing about admitting students who can help others to bloom, too, the applicant will obtain a major clue about the attitudes that should be expressed (or not expressed) in the personal statement. This can be tricky for an academically oriented student who has attended a typical American high school, rather than an academic powerhouse. I am quite willing to believe that strong students at Stuyvesant or the Harker School can be totally swamped by others who are stronger academically (and who in those settings may have the majority of the light shining on them). These “swamped” students could no doubt bloom quite a lot in college, away from the high school atmosphere.

For an academically oriented student, I think the trick is to imagine that he/she has attended a high school where being academically strong was a benefit and not a drawback, and where the quarterback was not the real star. I would suggest that a student of that type should imagine himself/herself at Stuyvesant (say), adjust all thoughts about the personal statement based on that, and eliminate anything that might look arrogant in that context.

What the student wants to be showing in a positive sense will be different, too. Imagine classmates who would actually welcome academic conversations! . . . though not with the applicant “in charge.”

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The lawsuit docs suggest “bright minds” is indeed associated with a large boost in admissions chances, but it’s also not a free pass to bomb the rest of the application. Instead it’s more like a strong hook. For example, among “bright minds” who had a rating of 3 or worse (1-2 is above average among applicant pool, 3 is median) in all major categories except academics, their admit rate was ~40% – most were rejected. However, among “bright minds” who received at least one 2 in something other than academics, most were accepted. The regression coefficients suggest an applicant who is a “bright mind” has similar chance of admission to a high stat applicant with a 2 in academics, who also has a strong hook on the level of Black or on Dean/Director’s special interest list. 1’s in ECs or Personal had a similar effect. 1’s in Athletic (recruited athlete) was notably more powerful than any of the above. Unhooked kids who did not receive any 1’s were rarely admitted unless they were “all-arounders” with 2’s in the majority of major categories. And even then, the majority were rejected, presumably due to other criteria. LORs and interview seem to be particularly important in explaining the variation in admission decisions among applicants with similar ratings in the major categories…

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"Since the Bright Minds are taken with “less of the usual vetting,” a Harvard admit who was not among them can say, “Hey, I was vetted much more thoroughly than you were! You just got in on unidimensional grounds!”

I don’t think that’s the case at all, athletic and development admits get much less vetting than the bright minds. In fact it would be someone like Jared Kushner (unremarkable student according to his high school admins) who got in on money and political connections (his dad gave $2.5M to Harvard and knew Ted Kennedy). The bright minds are in on pure merit, no connections, athletic prowess, backroom politics needed to get them in. They get the least if any amount of questioning.

“There was an era in which there was special attention to quite bright students in American high schools, but I think that era is long past.”

I think that’s still the case, maybe to a lesser extent. Most of the few hundred or so kids that get into both Harvard and Stanford are the bright minds. Athletes typically don’t get offers to both, someone like Kushner would not get into Stanford since his dad didn’t have connections or money there.

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I personally don’t see why one couldn’t learn from what H and S and MIT and Duke, Chi, others do say and figure out what patterns and traits a tippy top likes. (That is, wthout referencing bygone days or what someone said that may or may not apply.) I’ve walked lots of bright kids through this and the lightbulb goes on over their heads. (They are, after all, bright and motivated. If they’re rising seniors, some are willing to revisit their ECs, they do. I do not translate for them, as some wish I would on some threads.)

Others just argue it’s too hard or too clouded. Well, what are we supposed to say to that? You want H or S, Wharton or MIT, and can’t wind it up, try to figure out what matters? You don’t know how Princeton is different, or Brown? Or how it matters that Columbia and Penn are in major, sometimes gritty, cities, while D is more rural?

Don’t assume Bright Minds get in based only on merit. It’s still what H wants. And no kid should be silly enough to walk around telling himself he got more or less vetting. It may aggravate some, but a kid who does get in should be savvier than that. And more mature.

Let’s break down “show not tell” a bit. If you think you’re smart and want that challenging college, we all know it has to show in your grades and rigor. You can’t just say, as some chance-me kids do, that you can do better and are really smart, despite the C or worse grades in your major area. Top college want kids who can hit the ground running, who already have the basic prep nailed down. Someone has said to me, but their “potential” potential (like, maybe, if H gives them a spot they’ll catch fire.) Sorry, the competition is too fierce.

Likewise, if you want engineering, doesn’t it make sense that you can show the rigorous math-sci classes and grades, some math-sci collaborative activities, etc? Resilience, innovation. Sorry, that’s not innovating some new club. Collaborative isn’t sitting with lower school kids. And you aren’t the only kid out there programming apps.

Lol.

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I would like to bring this thread back to the topic of “essays” before it gets locked for veering into territory already locked on other threads.

D2 is a very good persuasive writer. She writes excellent academic papers using the standard rubric of Thesis - evidence, conclusion. Her essays and papers are clear, logical, original and persuasive. They are creative in that her theses often original and thought provoking. For her, it isn’t “show” or “tell” but “prove.”

If the college essay had the topic, “I would be an asset to campus because…” She could do a great a job. The problem for her is that they want that information, but they want it tucked away inside some evocative anecdote or past experience. At least that is how it feels. This was a huge asset for my eldest whose strength is creative writing. Its a problem for D2.

I’m not claiming that this is unfair in any way. There are other elements of the application where she will shine. Its just frustrating and difficult for her and I believe, for others like her. They are being asked to find a way to make themselves shine using a medium they may have no experience with and no talent for.

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“I would be an asset to…” and show not tell just means “don’t give us a laundry list of the things you’ve done in HS”.

That’s it. Don’t overthink it. I have read college essays which have literally been a list of activities and awards strung together with “and” and words tossed in like “meaningful” and “moving” and “impactful” with a summary sentence which declares how in synch these activites are with the person’s values. And sometimes the truly insightful comment that volunteering for the homeless teaches that we are all the same (er- we’re clearly not since some folks are homeless and others have a roof over their head).

thesis, evidence, conclusion is miles above what the typical HS kid is writing about in their college essay which is more akin to “I’m throwing in a lot of stuff here, and you should be smart enough to tease out a narrative if you work at it”.

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Yes, this was a struggle for my oldest and not at all for my younger kid. My older son had his original essay read by his aunt (ABD English PhD) who said much the same to him. She explained there’s the prompt - and you have to address the prompt - but more importantly there’s the agenda - that’s what you are going to bring to the college. They both have to be in that essay. Eventually he got it - his essay was still more of a laundry list than ideal - but it did show his sense of humor and his willingness to learn what he wanted sometimes by teaching himself, sometimes by grabbing opportunities and running with them.

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I think “no experience” and “no talent” is somewhat of an overstatement. And I’d also argue that this medium is something very important to college success & life success, because it is an important written communication skill. It is storytelling, and that’s important because things that are written in narrative form are more engaging to the reader (or listener), and tend to be more memorable as well. That does not equate with fiction – nonfiction is also more memorable when tied to a narrative or a story.

I do think it is a capability that is important, and every bit as important as the students’ high school grades, and in my view, far more important than their test scores. Because the GPA & test scores provide information about how good the student is at simply giving back what is expected; the essay provides insight into whether the student has the capacity to be creative, to go a step beyond what is expected and produce something different.

I do agree that of course some students have more difficulty with this than others — but then it is a skill that might need working on.

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I think you are misconstruing as well as misquoting that statement.  The article you cite is here:  "How your Application is Considered" - <a href="https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/application-process/what-we-look">https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/application-process/what-we-look</a>

The relevant quote is:

A good teacher can learn from students not because the student has more accumulated knowledge than them, but from the questions the student asks, the diversity of experience the student brings to the classroom, the different ways the students interpret or process information, and the way students may relate things learned in one context that can be applied in others.

And no, this is not a process that is in any way contradictory with the concept of humility – because often it is the student who is not afraid to ask what seems like a dumb question who fills that role.

It seems to me that you have a very literal and superficial interpretation of words used. That you interpret “best educators” to mean only “someone who knows more than the professor”; “humble” to mean lack of ambition. I can see how that evidences a very precise level of thinking – but it is also a very simplistic interpretation. And my guess is that among other things, the elite colleges are looking for students who are more flexible in their thought processes.

So I read that article on the Harvard site as being a wonderful array of suggestions. It is not a checklist of an array of qualities that every student much fill. There is an implied [or] between each bullet point – pick two, pick three – tell them something that answers a few of those questions, and answers them well.

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My kids did have the “I will be an asset” question in a supp. It was more direct than the Common App prompts and was, in fact, a Why Us? How you reflect shows what you know about the college. What you know shows a lot about thinking and interest (because, if you know next to nothing, how much interest is that?) And self match.

I’d say most kids answer with narrow thinking. “I’ll be an xx major because I want to be a XX in my career.I will take this class and that and apply for a research position…” Nothing that that reflects soul or awareness or fun or the fact you’re entering a community, not signing up for a research carrel with a meal plan. It’s generic, one answer fits all.
What does that show?

The CA essay is similar in that what you communicate will show a lot about your awarenss, thinking, and interest. We can’t tell you formula, we can just talk about it. The CA prompts are not meant to use the skills the hs drones into them: thesis statement, et al. You aren’t defending anything or trying to persuade. Nor postulate. It isn’t about creative writing. It’s to get to know you better.

(And no, they do not grade you on sticking to the prompt, as an English teacher might.)

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@lookingforward

Exactly. It is asking for a different specific skill and one that not every student has. That’s fine. Colleges can ask for whatever they think they need to pick the class. If a story telling skill is important to Xuniversity, and it isn’t something a student possesses, then that university is not right for that student.

I disagree with @calmom that it is something everyone needs to develop. Story telling is a wonderful skill and extremely useful in certain professions. But it is not necessary in many others where other kinds of writing are far more important. Scientific papers, legal briefs, other kinds of academic papers really do depend on the thesis - defense rubric. And despite what @lookingforward suggested, I don’t think its something most high schools do a good job of “droning” into students. Its like saying that calculus is a good skill to have. It is, but it isn’t necessary for everyone.

For the kids that don’t excel here, the common app essay can be a very stressful and difficult exercise.