<p>Obama had the chance with Hillary, but he turned his back on her.</p>
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^Just read the posts about Palin on CC. It's not that hard to find, really.
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<p>AMom2: You are going to have to do better than that. I for one will say a lot of things about Palin. None of them have to do per se with her being a mother or even a woman....A lot of people I've seen here on CC are the same. I think you may be hoping that these people are perceived as or are being sexist when the fact is they are not being so at all.</p>
<p>I've said and I'll say it again: Palin's an idiotic choice for McCain because it robs him of his "Obama is inexperienced" line of attack, it highlights the risk of choosing him (McCain) at all when he is so old, and the selection process makes him look incompetent. The Republicans have been struggling with incompetence as an image during the past 8 years -- and in this regard as in others McCain is demonstrating he is more of the same. Finally, Palin's being a woman is not enough for a lot of the women McCain seems to be trying to target. She is against the policies a lot of them want to see enacted.</p>
<p>Seriously, AMom, no one is going to search out support for your argument. If you want to link to some posts where someone is making fun of her for being a mother, I'd be happy to read them, but I'm not going to read through hundreds of pages of posts to find out. I've read quite a bit of that thread and haven't seen one person make fun of her for being a mother.</p>
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You're having the same problem that Michelle Bachmann had with James Carville on Larry King Live. Carville said "Sarah Palin is supremely unqualified and uniquely underqualified" or something to that effect and Michelle Bachmann said "That's demeaning to women." It's completely ridiculous.
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I saw that interview and completely agree with you. Carville said nothing demeaning about women and Bachman looked foolish. Responding to every and any criticism of Palin with 'you're being sexist' is just as unacceptable (and sexist) as responding to every criticism of Obama with 'you're being racist' or any criticism of McCain with 'he was a POW'. They need to get people out there who are at least informed enough to come up with intelligent rebuttals instead of trite ones that don't even bear any relation to the question.</p>
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No one ever questions if Obama's fit to be father or that Joe Biden was a terrible president because his son toked up.
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<p>That's easy: they are great fathers. Any idiot knows that parents shouldn't be held accountable for the foibles of their kids. Don't point the finger at all or even most Obama supporters. Who you are angry with, or who you should be angry with, is the media. They won't let the pregnancy thing die off until it's been picked over. </p>
<p>That's why McCain's choice was so bad. It's right before his convention, two months only before the election, and he picked somebody both unvetted by his people and unvetted in the court of public opinion.</p>
<p>So who you should really blame, above the media, is McCain and his people. Any idiot should have known this would get blown up into a big story.</p>
<p>Trying to pin this on putative sexism of a lot of Obama supporters is ridiculous.</p>
<p>For me, most troubling is her lack of experience and demonstrated intelligence and judgement dealing with national and international issues combined with her lack of ethics related to Troopergate. On top of this, I hate her politics.</p>
<p>You didn't read any of the posts.</p>
<p>There are many sexist remarks about Palin.</p>
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There are many sexist remarks about Palin.
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If there are so many, it should be easy for you to find many.</p>
<p>Sigh. We weren't discussing whether or not there were sexist posts, we were discussing whether or not there were posts making fun of her for being a mother.<br>
By the way, I don't appreciate you calling me a liar. </p>
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You didn't read any of the posts.
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<p>How could you possibly know? Are you really going to resort to ad hominem attacks?</p>
<p>^You said you didn't go through and read them. I gave you the link you requested.</p>
<p>Well. Isn't this comical.</p>
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You didn't read any of the posts.
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</p>
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If you want to link to some posts where someone is making fun of her for being a mother, I'd be happy to read them, but I'm not going to read through hundreds of pages of posts to find out. I've read quite a bit of that thread and haven't seen one person make fun of her for being a mother.
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<p>As you can see here, I stated that I read quite a bit of the Palin thread in the Parent's Cafe. I also ask for links to posts, not threads. Linking to a 200+ page thread is like a lawyer giving a 500 page document to a judge and telling him that the evidence proving his client's innocence is somewhere in the middle.</p>
<p>I think picking Sarah Palin was, perhaps, one of the stupidest things McCain could have done. She does not instill confidence in me if I were to vote McCain. She is inexperienced. Two years of governorship? Unacceptable.</p>
<p>She's under an ethics investigation. Look at this : The</a> Washington Independent The Reform Candidate?</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>You really should leave her alone she is not making this up:</p>
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"By:ASC
Palin: is it really worth finding out that your child has a chromosomal disorder in return for a 1/200 (source: my mom's OBGYN 3 years ago when my mom contemplated having an amnio with my sister) chance that you will in turn have a dead fetus? How would you feel if all mothers-to-be had amnios completed on them, and as a result, an additional 1 out of every 200 fetuses died?"
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"By b'smom
I'd be concerned that if she were so against abortion that she would risk her 44 year old life and that of her 36 week old fetus flying from Texas to Wasila Alaska once her membranes have ruptured without a face to face visit with a medical provider. That sounds like she was inviting a late term abortion."
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"By NBAchris
A hockey mom from the most remote state in the union.
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</p>
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"By Doctorb
Today is a sad day in American history. How condescending can you be to put a beauty queen a heartbeat away from the Oval Ofiice"
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</p>
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"By Cervantes
Please-McCain picked her because she has a vagina, 2 breasts, and is of childbearing age. Don't deny it. As I said, it was a risky move, we'll see if it works. I don't think it will.
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"By OrangeGrove
If Palin were a guy, I wonder if there'd be the same level of support for her as the veep pick... (doubts it)."
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</p>
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"By Hippo724
Yeah, anyone who's stupid enough to switch from Hillary to McCain, simply because now he has a VP with a pu$$y
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"By ASC
but this woman doesn't give a crap about women. McCain is USING her. She's Dick Cheney with a pretty face and a v*****. REPUBLICANS do NOT support WOMEN in POWER. This is an insult to women."
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"By southeasttitan
Guess we know what her real qualifications are, besides a VJJ.
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"By ASC
And like I said before, Palin is Dick Cheney with a pretty face and a v*****."
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"By swish14
Can you imagine Miss Congeneality going up against Putin, North Koreans, Chinese, Iranians, Chavez,"
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<p>So yeah there is alot of sexism in the campaign and this is exactly what Steve Schmidt wanted. Steve is the protege of Karl Rove, he knew that she was underqualified and about her pregnant daughter and knew how ppl would react. If they keep heaping it on, watch the McCain campaign will say this is just what they did to Hillary bc the media wants thier celebrity to win.
Remember that this is still America and the conception is that a woman takes care of her children, by attacking Palin and attacking her child and her inexperience it just becomes attacking a woman. Then the middle of the road (remember ppl who do not pay attention to polls and who work) will go to the ballot and say: Wow how could dems do this and will vote for McCain, in fact it is even more likely to be the reason that many women will vote for her, bc it will be seen as an attack on women and not Palin.
Carly Fiorna just released a statement about this very think. Watch, the narrative will play out just as I said. Republicans know how to win elections.</p>
<p>Dbate, it was never about whether or not there was sexism in the thread. I acknowledged that very early on, but AMom kept making statements without providing any evidence, and statements mean nothing if there's nothing backing them up.</p>
<p>But Amom was right, she is a mom and probably does not have the time to go and formulate the posts together.</p>
<p>(did you notice the sexism :))</p>
<p>But anyway, the Dems really are falling for the Rove trap. I have been thinking why McCain would pick her and it is now obvious after Fiorna released her statement (she is one of the top advisors to McCain) what they are setting up will be interesting.</p>
<p>But also once the McCain camp says sexism, the Dems and liberals will increase the criticism and fall deeper into the trap.</p>
<p>Dbate, if you look back, the point of contention was someone making fun of her for being a mother. Not anything else. It was that very specific claim with no evidence that bothered me. Anyways, this is a fruitless debate.</p>
<p>DBate:</p>
<p>There are a lot of people who think that McCain is pandering to women through this selection. This is a fair thing to point out. It's not making fun of Palin because she's a mom. You need to understand distinctions. A lot of these posts are about that.</p>
<p>Saying she is Miss Congeneality going up against those different foreign groups. That's closer to being sexist. It has nothing to do with her being mom, but it's also raising a question that's been raised again and again about Obama -- does he have the wisdom, experience, intelligence, and savvy to play on the international stage. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen, I say, and this is particularly true of someone who's playing second fiddle to a 72-year-old former POW (less life expectancy).</p>
<p>The saying that she's a hockey mom from the most remote state in the union is making fun of her because she's a mom in a sense, and it does overlook that she was elected to Governor of Alaska. I'll give you that one. And the same about the beauty queen statement, though that doesn't say anything about her being a mother.</p>
<p>The other two things -- asking about her medical judgement in her situation -- are not making fun of her at all. They are asking questions that, in my opinion, should not be part of the process of public "vetting" at all. But the details are out there and the people are going to do it in the US. This carries across the aisle.</p>
<p>Again, though, to miss the fact that people thing she was chosen because she has a certain anatomical "thing" isn't making fun of her motherhood. It's pointing out that no man with parallel credentials would ever been under consideration, and that, on the other hand, she's no Hillary Clinton. There are plenty more seasoned women in the Republican party; how come one of them wasn't chosen if being a woman was a key criterion? The fact is McCain had to choose an anti-choice running mate and he wanted a woman; therefore he threw caution (and I would argue good sense) to the wind and chose her.</p>
<p>I applaud John McCain for this because he thereby handed the election to my man Obama, unless something unforeseen happens. This isn't about sexism. This is about the fact that a no-name nationally with the messiness in her life that any adult has a certain amount of is having all her life examined under a media microscope and it is not all coming up rosy. She doesn't have national or international level experience either. McCain should have thought about this, and his failure to do so speaks to his judgement and competence.</p>
<p>Actually there are a few quotes that talk about her being a mother like ASC, b'smom,NBAchris, and Cervantes. Thier criticism directly spoke of her being a mother.
So apologize to Amom2 because she was right and the debate will end.</p>
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" The fact is McCain had to choose an anti-choice running mate and he wanted a woman; therefore he threw caution (and I would argue good sense) to the wind and chose her)"
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<p>I really do not think he will. Remember Steve Schmidt was one of the ppl who got G'Bush elected. You may not like these ppl, but they are not dumb, there is a strategy behind this and I posted my thoughts.</p>
<p>The criticism is legitmate but that is not the point, the way the average random woman will see it is a mother being attacked. The republicans just need to capatilize on this and it will be a seal. Cast her as a mother being unfairly attacked alluded to the media and hillary and you garner female support. Really think about it. All these attacks are not sexist, but that is bc the ppl who actually listen to them are smart and engaged, the average american (and specifically mother) does not have the time to process this. </p>
<p>Take for example the US weekly cover. They have her and her child and then the story is bashing her, the juxtaposition then becomes that they are attacking mothers and not Palin.
Schmidt (I say Schmidt because I believe he orchastrated this whole thing.) is not trying to win Massachuettes or New York, but Minnesota and Ohio and Pennsylvania, areas of the country where ppl work and have family and it is important. They are going to cast Obama and his campaign in a very negative light and I think the media and Obama camps are falling into it.</p>
<p>For being a mother. For. I don't see a post saying anything along the lines of "Haha she had kids, what a sucker!" Criticism of her as a mother? Yes. For being a mother? No. Criticism of her for being a mother is inherently sexist, criticism of her motherhood is debatable.(Let it be known that I'm not saying that those comments weren't sexist, just pointing out the distinction)</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but why would I apologize? AMom made claims with no evidence, I challenged her to provide it. She was the one who accused me of lying. If you can provide a convincing reason why I should apologize, I will do so, but I'm really not seeing it.</p>