Biden just cleaned Palin's clock.

College Confidential Community
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<p>I just finished watching the Vice Presidential debate and the impression I got was that Joe Biden showed himself to be the much more knowledgable and articulate of the two candidates. It seemed to me that Sarah Palin would frequently ignore the question that had been asked in order to talk about Alaska or energy, and that it was noticeable when she would refer to the same talking point or stock phrase more than once in a given answer. Although she didn't stumble or fall (except for when she babbled for two minutes after Biden attacked McCain's education record before managing to get back on track), she also didn't display anything that would cause independents to be more likely to vote for her ticket.</p>

<p>Biden, on the other hand, was focused and professional, and displayed much greater proficiency in attacking Senator McCain's record and countering Palin's assertions regarding Barack Obama. His extreme wealth of experience showed through as well, with the majority of his arguments backed up with concrete examples and data, including many references to specific achievements in the Senate on his own part. He also, in my opinion, made a much more convincing connection to middle-class voters with his story about his wife and children than Palin did, and didn't appear insincere while doing so.</p>

<p>According to the graph showing immediate reactions from a sample group of uncommitted Ohio voters, Biden was a clear favorite among that crucial voter group (even granting that the sample leaned slightly toward Obama-Biden).</p>

<p>Other opinions? I'm anxious to read what the pundits will say. This debate marks the first time I've been really excited about this campaign.</p>

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<p>False. I watched the "Facts"-related segments on all the aftershows and one thing became QUITE apparent: Joe Biden lied. A LOT. We're talking flat-out, bold-faced lies about the voting records of both McCain and Obama. How is that professional? The pundits could only find a single factual error by Palin regarding one of her claims about Obama's tax policy. Obviously one is more professional and mature than the other. Biden looked like a used car salesman in a nice suit.</p>

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<p>@hookem: well at least biden don't think that humans lived with the dinosaurs</p>

<p>'private concern', my arse</p>

<p>Anyways, about the debate:
-I thought they both did an OK job...no major 'gaffes'
-Way too boring (much more than previous VP debates)
-Both held their ground quite well
-Biden was clearly more experienced than Palin
-Palin had a nice populist tone</p>

<p>regardless, i don't think this will switch independent voters over to mccain...palin still seems too republican</p>

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<p>^ And at least I use proper grammar! "biden don't think"
Good lord.</p>

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<p>Two words: confirmation bias</p>

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<p>@hookem: nice jab back at me...it was full of substance :b
@friedrice: ???</p>

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<p>Biden won, but not by as much as he should have. The format of the "debate" prevented him from responding to Palin's remarks. Her remarks were largely inaccurate, broad, flat-out lies, or designed to please conservative ears rather than provide actual substance. For example, when she said that we need to drill for energy in America and not buy fossil fuels from overseas, there was no room in the debate for Biden to respond: "we don't have enough fossils to so much as make a dent in the area where we need it the most: oil." And when she said that she believes in global climate change, but little of it is caused by man, that is just flat-out ignoring most scientific studies out there. (No, Palin, Christianity does not disprove science). Plus, her response about expanding the VP powers didn't scare you? she wants to be the defacto leader of the senate!</p>

<p>Plus she kept pushing for idea that Obama wants higher taxes for the American people-by vetoing tax cuts. To Palin: OF COURSE HE'S VETOING TAX CUTS. WE ARE INCREASING SPENDING, DECREASING TAXES, AND WE HAVE AN 11 TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT. YOU DON'T DECREASE TAXES WHEN YOU INCREASE SPENDING, DUMBASS. THAT IS HOW THE DOLLAR AND OUR ECONOMY BECOMES WORTHLESS. </p>

<p>Most of Palin's remarks were not only flat-out lies-such as with Obama's voting record-but she followed conservative talking points, which are in themselves innately flawed, and the set up of the debate did not allow Biden to respond to the obvious flaws. </p>

<p>Overall, it was a rather useless and pointless debate. Why provide a venue for them to just espouse their ideals? We can find that anywhere-on TV or on the internet. I wanted to hear the two interact. But I'm guessing McCain's campaign would have pulled out if that was the focus of the debate.</p>

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<p>I thought the candidates were able to comment on one another's statements just fine, and could cite numerous examples of either one doing so. It wasn't a conversational back-and-forth exchange, but I didn't think that hindered the quality in any way. Rather, it gave each candidate ample time to develop his/her points, making it clear who could sustain a train of thought (Biden) and who had a propensity to descend into rambling (Palin).</p>

<p>I didn't find the debate useless or boring.</p>

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<p>I was surprised that the debate was not more convincing for Biden. He did a good job staying calm and not coming across like a bully. Biden's answers were at least responsive but often misleading. Palin spent too much time smiling, winking, failing to enunciate and speaking to the "folks" as though we are all idiots. Her answers were often so unresponsive that it became boring. Her govenor experience is the equivalent (population-wise) of being the mayor of Denver. </p>

<p>On the other hand, Obama's experience and presentation is much like Palin's, although he does not "wink" quite as much. When I think about how scary Palin is, I realize that Obama is similarly scary. His massive spending proposals and total lack of experience make him a poor choice. He may be a great candidate years from now. As much as I can't stand Palin, McCain is a better choice for president.</p>

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<p>Yay! She can speak coherent sentences! She is definitely qualified to be VP. :)</p>

<p>While any objective, intellectual assessment of the debate would reveal Palin to be woefully unqualified and Biden a strong anchor to Obama's newness, she did what she had to do. The conservatives will eat it up like they ate up Bush's horrific debate performances that just pandered to the base. </p>

<p>In the end, she neutralized herself, which is what she had to do. Those who want to like her because to discredit her ability would mean discrediting their own, will like her again. Everyone else will remain deeply skeptical of both her abilities on the international stage and McCain's judgment. I doubt we'll hear much more about her.</p>

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<p>busymomof4 - I understand you concerns about Obama, and I too hope there's one branch of government that goes Republican to balance things out. </p>

<p>But I really don't think you can compare the two. Obama has a long history of proven success, philosophical inquiry, and achievement at the highest levels - whether as Harvard's Law Review editor, a professor, a community organizer at 23, or a state representative. Palin barely graduated with a journalism degree and worked as a sports reporter before joining the PTA.</p>

<p>I, personally, am far more reassured by Obama (even though I thought Hillary should have gotten it while she's in hehr prime with him as her VP).</p>

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<p>I didn't watch the debate, but a lot of the pundits are saying that it was pretty much even.</p>

<p>And at least one is suggesting that Palin came out ahead last night-</p>

<p>Commentary:</a> For Palin, a tie is a win - CNN.com</p>

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<p>Both spoke well, but Biden contradicted himself a couple times-
- First he said that in 32 years in Washington, he hadn't changed. And then, oh crap!, the next question is about changing in office!</p>

<ul>
<li>Also, he said that the only time the VP should work with the Senate is in case of a tie.And then, oh crap!, 15 minutwes later there is a question on how to get congress to work together. Palin should have pointed out that according to Biden, the VP shouldn't be there, since it is purely an executive office.</li>
</ul>

<p>I also think Biden was slightly condesccending, saying that "the people in MY town get it" (implying that the rest of America doesn't) , and calling VP Cheney's idea about the office of VP "bizarre' (implying that Palin, who agreed with it, is also bizarre, or atleast wacko). Oh, and then there was the part where he said Obama dying in office would be a tragedy of historical porportions. Yes, because "the lord messiah Obama" dying in office would be worse than Pearl Harbor, 9/11, Lincoln's death, or any of the other major events in US history. </p>

<p>I don't think Palin was awesome- I would have liked her to be more clear spoken, with less verbal clutter. She was gracious, too gracioius in my opinion. I would have pounded Biden into the ground. Also, it bothers me that Biden/Obama rarely refer to McCain as Sen. McCain. Usually it is John (or tom, in Obama's case). He's earned the title of Senator, for crying out loud, USE IT!!! </p>

<p>Okay, I'm done. Please excuse any spelling errors, I'm in a rush. :)</p>

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<p>Polling the "uncommited" is the problem. They're really racist Democrats. </p>

<p>Palin won on message and heart.</p>

<p>Biden's got facts, but he's on the wrong side of the issues.</p>

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<p>^If that means that the people responding to polling as "uncommitted" are actually closet Democrats, it suits me fine. And I really don't understand how a candidate's issues can be right if her facts are dead wrong.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Both spoke well, but Biden contradicted himself a couple times-
- First he said that in 32 years in Washington, he hadn't changed. And then, oh crap!, the next question is about changing in office!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is a pretty obvious distortion. One instance referred to his unfaltering principles, the second to his stance on a specific issue (and at least he managed to name one).</p>

<p>
[quote]
- Also, he said that the only time the VP should work with the Senate is in case of a tie.And then, oh crap!, 15 minutwes later there is a question on how to get congress to work together. Palin should have pointed out that according to Biden, the VP shouldn't be there, since it is purely an executive office.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Looking back at the transcript, I think the second question to which you tried to refer was "You both talk about bipartisanship ... How do you change the tone, as vice president, as number-two?" If it was, then this is another obvious distortion, and as I recall Biden had some pretty specific examples to provide of things he's done (Palin just repeated "maverick" for the umpteenth time).</p>

<p>
[quote]
I also think Biden was slightly condesccending, saying that "the people in MY town get it" (implying that the rest of America doesn't) , and calling VP Cheney's idea about the office of VP "bizarre' (implying that Palin, who agreed with it, is also bizarre, or atleast wacko).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Palin had been name-dropping Wasilla every other question. I think Biden was asserting that he is also from a middle-class background. Or is that only condescending if Palin isn't doing it? As for the VP position, Biden has every right to call it bizarre, and the Framers would be on his side. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Oh, and then there was the part where he said Obama dying in office would be a tragedy of historical porportions. Yes, because "the lord messiah Obama" dying in office would be worse than Pearl Harbor, 9/11, Lincoln's death, or any of the other major events in US history.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have a newsflash for you: when a President of the United States dies in office, it is a historical event. I don't even know where you pulled the comparison to Lincoln or Pearl Harbor from, because it certainly wasn't from anything said in the debate. You're trying too hard.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't think Palin was awesome- I would have liked her to be more clear spoken, with less verbal clutter. She was gracious, too gracioius in my opinion. I would have pounded Biden into the ground.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Palin stuck to the script the campaign gave her, which is why she rarely made an attempt to answer a question directly. She wouldn't have been able to "pound Biden into the ground," because he so obviously knew so much more than she did. It's especially evident when reading the foreign policy section of the transcript.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Also, it bothers me that Biden/Obama rarely refer to McCain as Sen. McCain. Usually it is John (or tom, in Obama's case). He's earned the title of Senator, for crying out loud, USE IT!!!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>"Can I call you Joe?" This is completely irrelevant.</p>

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<p>Like I said before, it depends on who interprets it. In my opinion Palin won and Biden was a letdown. I expected a lot more from him. I could care less what polls say or the pundits. I say she won, not by much but she did win.</p>

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<p>Nobody's going to remember what the exact proposals, details, and facts were. The things that people are going to remember:</p>

<p>1) Sarah Palin was a cold-hearted ***** for not empathizing with Joe Biden after his loss of composure when talking about his personal tragedy.</p>

<p>2) Sarah Palin did not monumentally mess up.</p>

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<p>I have to say- I found her response to the question- essentially "oh, I raised 5 kids, what have you done with your life, Biden?" and then her response to him- oh, at least she has the gift of heaven"- to be incredibly arrogant and offensive. I don't see her appeal as a likable person-which is supposedly the only thing she has going for her.</p>

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<p>Biden was super condescending to the audience and all of America. Does he really have to repeat the sentence he just spoke over again as he did several times? He must think people are idiots who can't understand his brilliant thoughts. What a jerk. What a jerk. (Oh no, now he's got me doing it. On no, now he's got me doing it.)</p>