What extracurricular activities are more important to get the kids into top colleges?

Parents Forum
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<p>As the mom of a young woman who has now been admitted, so far, into 4 of the 5 LAC she applied to I would say forget about trying to “game” the system. If your kids have a genuine passion for the activities they are engaged in, then that will shine through on their application. </p>

<p>In terms of academics, we have always told our Ds to take the most difficult courses offered at their HS, even if it means getting a lower grade. Admissions people want to see that kids have taken advantage of the opportunities available to them in the setting they find themselves in. </p>

<p>Also, one bit of advice I would pass along that my D received regarding the essay (this came from a student at a top LAC in the Midwest), and I do believe is so true: Be AUTHENTIC.</p>

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<p>What mam1959 posted is true: "Be a national level athlete - as in the top 50 or 100 in the nation in your sport. "</p>

<p>Since most people don’t have the talent or motivation to achieve the above, it would be best for the mom to allow her boys to pursue their own intersts, whatever those interests are. Their independently, creatively pursuing their own interests is likely to impress colleges far more than would occur if they pick an interest to impress colleges.</p>

<p>Also, the boys shouldn’t be choosing now what they plan to do for 4 years. Part of growing up is exploring a variety of activities, and by doing so, learning what one most enjoys and doesn’t enjoy. It’s perfectly fine, expected, normal for students to add and drop activities throughout their high school years. I find it heartbreaking to see posts by students who are forcing themselves (or being forced by parents) to continue in an EC activity that they initially liked, but have grown to hate. </p>

<p>Far better to allow them to move on. When they move on, they may find a true passion. At the very least, they’ll learn more about themselves and the world.</p>

<p>My S found one of his passions the summer after junior year in high school. He took a workshop to learn how to be a facilitator for a nonviolence program, and found that to his surprise, he loved facilitating and was a wonderful facilitator. That led to a variety of opportunities for him including a countywide award, and getting merit aid from his first choice college.</p>

<p>In college, he got involved in the arts, and hasn’t had as much time to facilitate, but the skills and insights he learned through facilitating will be of use to him for the rest of his life. In fact, facilitating is what helped him emerge from being very shy.</p>

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<p>I heard that top-20 in the world at any significant activity will get you in most anywhere, as long as you have reasonable academic credentials.</p>

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<p>One thing I would add to this discussion is that it’s nice to have a balance. Colleges do look at it. A friend’s daughter was validictorian, quite birlliant actually, but didn’t get into some of the top colleges. She didn’t have much else going on. I encourage my kids to join a club of interest, play some sport and do community service. They can pick whatever the heck they are interested in. Fortunately, My D just happily got into her dream collge, but she had several other back up choices. She’s adaptable, and I think being well-rounded is part of the equation.</p>

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<p>Agreed. Let the kid decide. That’s rare enough to stand out to admission officers anyway.</p>

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<p>"Colleges do look at it. A friend’s daughter was validictorian, quite birlliant actually, but didn’t get into some of the top colleges. She didn’t have much else going on. I encourage my kids to join a club of interest, play some sport and do community service. "</p>

<p>I agree that it’s important to have balance. The reason I agree is that people need more than intellectual activities in order to have interesting lives, and to be able to meet people, handle stress, and stay energetic and creative. This is more important than how ECs can open the doors to top colleges. </p>

<p>Everyone needs hobbies. </p>

<p>It’s sad to see adults who center their entire lives around work and possibly watching TV. They tend to be dull people, and often their careers don’t even take off because having hobbies does lead to insights and creativity and friendships that are boosts on the job. Such people also tend to be very miserable in retirement.</p>

<p>I’ve been thrilled to see that my son who’s in college has been active in a variety of ECs including new ones. When he was in middle school and high school, I had to force him to do ECs. He was shy, and had a hard time making up his mind about what EC to choose. I’d give him a deadline to choose, and if he still couldn’t choose, I’d choose one for him that I thought he might like. My rule was that he could do that for a semester, and if he didn’t like it, he could switch into something else.</p>

<p>He did a lot of switching, until he took the facilitation training and found out he was really good at it, and enjoyed it a great deal. He also realized that one needn’t be perfect at something at first: That one could learn a skill. Having that training boosted his confidence and opened lots of doors for him. By the time he went to college, he was confident enough to try new things, and he wasn’t hard on himself when he didn’t start out doing them perfectly.</p>

<p>What’s funny is that as he has been trying new things, so have I. I got into acting in my city; he into acting in college. He got into ballroom dancing; I got into ballroom dancing in my city. We also each have gotten into activities that the other isn’t interested in. It has been fun sharing experiences.</p>

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<p>So, we have to plan things so it looks like something the kid loves. And write it up so that it looks passionate. Sounds like a job for a very expensive consultant.</p>

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<p>No, your job as a parent is to help your kid develop intellectually and socially so that they are a productive, fulfilled member of society. This means helping your kid find their intellectual interests and helping your kid find hobbies that will provide balance, joy, and stimulation in their lives – during childhood and as an adult. </p>

<p>If you have a kid who’s good at finding their own ECs, then your job is to either stand out of the way while they passionately pursue those ECs or to provide guidance in how they can pursue their ECs at a deeper level so they can learn about the world and their own capabilities. This could mean, for instance, encouraging a kid to run for student council if s/he has ideas and an interest in making the school a better place. It could mean encouraging a kid to write for the school paper or literary magazine if they enjoy writing. </p>

<p>It does not mean forcing your kid to do some activity to look good for college. It does not mean telling your kid what to write their essay about. If that’s what you learned from this thread, you are taking away the wrong lesson.</p>

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Quite true. Of course, significant means being on the level of the International Math/Science Olympiads, ISEF, ISTS and the like.</p>

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<p>There is no way a parent should “make the decision” and propel a child into an EC. I’ve seen too many kids just burn out with soccer, softball etc. Debate is an EC the child’s got to really want to do. Imagine the pressure on a kid to do well in an elective EC so that 3-4 years down the road they can write about it in an essay. It won’t work. It’s just intangible. Even the most studious, respecful child will resent it and rebel at some point. If you have expectations that they are involved students and get the best grades they can, success will follow and they will be happy.</p>

<p>So the kid doesn’t get into a “top college” so what? I went to an acceptable college and have a wonderful career I love.</p>

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<p>I tried to encourage my son to join certain clubs his freshman year and he had no interest. His soph year I tried to get him to pick clubs he had some interest in…he ended up joining a club that his friend started more for social reasons, than because he was interested in the cause. I think he’s just now starting to click…he just started his own club and was really psyched about it, doing all the planning on fundraising, etc. He’s also now thinking of running for student gov’t. When they’re ready, they’re ready and motivated. As a parent, it’s hard to sit by and watch, but I think part of the learning process is the journey your child has to go on to find out what really interests them. We can provide some guidance, but for the most part, we have to just sit back and let them figure it out.</p>

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<p>I think that the parents’ job is not to steer child toward a particular EC or cluster of EC’s, but to help find opportunities in the child’s expressed areas of interest. I have two kids in colleges that are perfect fits for them – both, IMHO, in meaningful part thanks to their EC’s. Neither kid had much to do with school-based clubs; they did the usual things to be good citizens with cooking for the homeless, raising money for human rights, etc., but neither had a leadership position or an elected office. Most of what they did happened outside of school. What I did was to facilitate. In other words, if a kid was playing with leggo endlessly and was interested in engineering type things, I said, Hey, do you want to find if there’s a leggo robotics team for kids your age? If someone adored claymation cartoons and was very artistic, I found an afterschool claymation class and offered it. (A lot of this stuff was at local parks & rec and was not expensive.) I made sure that there were great music teachers as long as the interest was there and there was practice, and I found outside programs and ensembles with performance opportunities. The kids would just say no if I was offering something that they didn’t want to pursue, and I backed off. Sometimes it was hard to back off, as in, OK kid wants to drop orchestra musical instrument that he played exceptionally in favor of an electric whatzit, or drop a sport that’s he could conceivably play in college in order to spend more time writing music for the electric whatzit. If this is the kid’s true direction, though, you just have to get the kid an amplifier and the computer program that’s needed for composition and pray for the best. </p>

<p>What I also discovered is that if the kid is doing something a bit offbeat, it’s good to have outside confirmation that the kid is good at the offbeat thing in terms of college admission. So if the kid goes along with it, encourage them to send those poems to national competitions and magazines for and by kids; send that interesting experiemental film to student film festivals; find out if the local historical museum has a program in which your kid obsessed with pioneers can become a docent with an official title and interesting things to do. (As the kids get older, they will find their own opportunities, but most 13 year olds don’t even know that these things exist.) Also, as the kids get older, if there are summer programs that are recognized as excellent nationally where they can pursue their interests with like-minded kids, this would be a good way to go. I guess what I’m saying is that if your kid wants to do South Asian dance, or hammer dulcimer, or become a puppeteer, or write novels in haiku, or learn to make video games based on the battle of Hastings and not work toward becoming first chair violin in the school orchestra and senior class president, it’s OK. Take her to performances and find her a dance troupe; buy her a dulcimer and expose her to folk music performances and conferences; and find her an interactive media company that will let her do any low level task they need done just to give her the exposure. </p>

<p>With my kids, one is pursing the central, longterm EC as an academic major and lifeswork, while the other is continuing to pursue the virtually lifelong EC as an EC in college, but one that shapes and informs her everyday life. This would not be happening if I had picked the EC’s or forced them not to drop something they were good at junior year (!) to take up something else. They both worked hard at the EC’s because this was where their true interests and passions lay, and this made their lives better, more interesting, and more fulfilling. And given that having a long-term outside passion in an area you’re very good at is currently in fashion with college admission, it clearly helped. But that can’t be the point; it’s just a nice side benefit that flows from the kids doing things they love to do.</p>

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<p>I took an approach which I know many here will disagree with, but this is what I did. </p>

<p>In 8th grade, each kid had to pick an EC for high school The EC chosen was entirely up to the kid, but kid could not quit it. HAD to do it for four years, no matter what. Kid could also do any other EC of interest and could add or drop those, but the ONE “core” EC had to be done for four years. ( I hear the protests now.) </p>

<p>Choosing that EC made each kid really investigate available ECs and try to find one (s)he thought (s)he could do for four years without losing interest. For us, it worked.</p>

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<p>I would agree with the above. I don’t think a parent should focus on “gaming” the system by pushing a kid toward an EC that the parent thinks is beneficial to the kid’s college admission. IMO the way to help your child is to support and facilitate ways for him or her to follow his/her inclinations or preferences for certain activities. I believe parents should let kids try a variety of things, especially before high school so that by the time a kid gets to hs, he/she will have a “passion” or interest. D2 started out in one activity in grade school and it turned out that as she got older, she couldn’t keep up and she dropped out. That was a stroke of luck because she decided to try acting in junior high and it clicked. She loved it and even won several state-wide acting awards by the time she was a senior in high school.</p>

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<p>At some level, it really seems to be a cultural issue of how much control and planning goes into a kid’s life, and what a “successful outcome” means. To me a successful outcome is the person not the college. I don’t agree with everything that’s been posted so far, and some of it puts the cart before the horse, IMHO, but those are my cultural biases. </p>

<p>Personally, we hope that we inspire a love of learning, a work ethic that finds work to be it’s own reward, and a humanity that humbles and inspires them to make a better world. We hope that they get enough sleep. </p>

<p>But I also want them to try things - well not everything, LOL - but to not be afraid to try things and fail. I want them to get used to mild embarrassment and not fear it (I joke that’s why I embarrass them so much). I want them to be tough enough to get though the toughest day, any day. I want them to generally like the people around them and to not view others as their competition (except in an actual competition like sports or debate - then I want them to take care of business). </p>

<p>I hated the idea purported in some college books that a kid has to decide by 8th grade which ECs she’s going to enjoy, or to choose a sport or a musical instrument for college admissions purposes. By 8th grade, they’re 14 and really ought to be the self-drivers in how they spend their time. They have to own it. I think that 14 is way too young to have tried everything worthwhile even if later on some 25-year old college admissions officer thinks that they’re too well rounded or “we have enough violinists”. Experimenting is worth the risk.</p>

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<p>"In 8th grade, each kid had to pick an EC for high school The EC chosen was entirely up to the kid, but kid could not quit it. HAD to do it for four years, no matter what. Kid could also do any other EC of interest and could add or drop those, but the ONE “core” EC had to be done for four years. ( I hear the protests now.) "</p>

<p>I’m glad it worked for your kids. It wouldn’t have worked for my kids or for me. My own interests change enough over a 4 year period, that I wouldn’t sign up for any club or similar thing that I knew I had to do for 4 years.</p>

<p>IMO no matter how much a kid investigates an EC, it would be hard for them to know what might interest them as they become exposed to new things, and change interests particularly during their adolescent years, when so many new things become possible.</p>

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<p>“. They have to own it. I think that 14 is way too young to have tried everything worthwhile even if later on some 25-year old college admissions officer thinks that they’re too well rounded or “we have enough violinists”. Experimenting is worth the risk.”</p>

<p>I also hope they will keep trying new things for the rest of their lives. I’m still trying new things as I approach 60. Life would be very dull if I weren’t doing this.</p>

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<p>Does anyone have an opinion on whether a student who has a long-standing passion (performing arts), and devotes all spare time to successfuly competing in and performing in several aspects of this passion, is making a mistake by not dropping something to add community service to the mix? I hate the idea, but it seems that all good students, including mine, are getting wrapped up in packaging themselves to match some hypothetical admissions office’s concept of the ideal applicant. Apparently, students believe that some minimuim level of community service hours are required.</p>

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<p>Students should do the activities that they most enjoy, and then go to the colleges that best meet their needs, and also want them. If a college would accept a student only if that student gave up a passion in order to look good to the college, that’s not a good fit for the student.</p>

<p>Incidentally, the very top colleges want students who follow their passions, even if those passions are all in one area. Of course, the very top colleges don’t have room for all of the qualified applicants who apply, so pursuing one’s passion (or dropping a passion for another EC) will not guarantee admission. Pursuing one’s passion, though, will more likely bring happiness and fulfillment than would doing something one doesn’t enjoy.</p>

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<p>I’m not convinced all colleges care about community service, but it is one of the lines on the Common Application so it’s hard to leave blank. Sometimes you can find ways to roll the passion and community service together. My son (computer geek) put down some website construction he did for a med school as volunteer work, and he spent some time one summer helping seniors use computers. He didn’t do any of the usual volunteer stuff. It may have hurt him some places, but he got into some excellent schools too.</p>