<p>My son just completed an OV, but was not sent a form or asked to complete a fa pre-read. The coach asked him for his gpa and test scores. We were told by the coach and admissions that they are need-blind during ED1 at this school which is probably why there was no fa pre-read.</p>
<p>The purpose of the financial pre-read is to allow the family to determine whether they can afford the costs of that university. (Most schools are need blind [or at least say they are]in determining admission.)</p>
<p>The financial pre-read can be particularly important with the ED schools (ED is sort of an agreement to attend if admitted).</p>
<p>Most schools are need-blind in determining admission? I don’t quite understand that. I thought only a few of the most selective schools were need-blind. Being in the “F/A pile” makes admission more difficult. I am talking about being admitted without regard to whether or not you checked the f/a box and then receiving the f/a you require, both of which this school says they do during ED1. After ED1, admissions is more competitive for f/a applicants. The particular school we are looking at meets 100% of demonstrated need (with almost completely grants…a $3500 yearly cap on federal loans) using a combination of federal and institutional methodology. If the ED1 package does not meet your needs, you are, of course, free to not attend said school (as is the case with all ED1 commits, I believe).</p>
<p>stemit…is this what you meant:</p>
<p>“Need-blind admissions systems are rare in the private sector where institutional funds often make up the bulk of financial aid awarded but virtually all public institutions are need blind. Most private universities cannot afford to offer financial aid to all admitted students and many will admit all students but cannot offer them sufficient aid to meet need.”</p>
<p>So, I am talking about a selective private school that is not need-blind in the ED2 and RD rounds, but is need-blind in the ED1 round. They meet 100% of need in all rounds.</p>
<p>You’re right and my bad when I said that most schools are need blind – I was really focussed only on that upper tier of really wealthy endowed schools. </p>
<p>I guess where I get hung up is the the concept of meeting 100% of “demonstrated need” language. That language is meant to comfort parents – but it has no real meaning in the real life we live in (if you’re middle class) because the school defines all the terms (like what does the term “demonstrated need” mean), the equations used to calculate the parents expected contribution, and ultimately the final offer of aid.</p>
<p>One family’s internal definition of need is way different from a school’s definition of need.</p>
<p>When a school issues prs that they meet 100% of demonstrated need, I now just roll my eyes and grit my teeth – since we’re on the other side of the admission process.</p>
<p>Stemit, I agree with you 1000%. This has been quite a learning process.</p>
<p>We did two prereads, one LAC one ivy (haven’t seen that one yet). The ivy was WAY more intensive in terms of what they asked (everything) and required (everything). So let’s see if they also arrive at the same unfortunate conclusion! (ie: find a way to pay up yerself)</p>
<p>Hmmm. I know my son’s college counselor told us to make sure we met with the financial aid officer and get him to give us a sound explanation of what “demonstrated need” was in their eyes. The fa officer told us to use the f/a calculators and that they use a combination of federal and institutional. He said we could go by the efc number. I already know what this is for my daughter, so I am assuming it will be similar for my son as we have had 1 in college at a time. The only thing that will have changed (in our favor, actually) is that I have an older son who is moving back home, which will increase our family size as we will be providing over 50% for him).
<em>Fingers crossed!</em></p>
<p>Most schools are need-blind.</p>
<p>Virtually all publics are need-blind. They accept based on stats, not ability to pay. If publics started rejecting based on ability to pay, there would be screams that this was hidden racism or some kind of favoritism for the rich. </p>
<p>Publics often WAY over-admit because they don’t look at ability to pay for admissions. They know that a number of people will reject them in spring because they don’t meet need.</p>
<p>I am speaking about private schools. I didn’t even consider publics, because at my son’s high school almost all of the students end up going to a private university. Sorry…tunnel vision on my part.</p>
<p>SHOCKER pre-read</p>
<p>Hi We just got our FinAid stuff–The calculated EFC is more than double what Princeton’s calculator gave us…this is a HYP</p>
<p>They took our income,
added back IN my husband SEP contribution,
then took partial deductions (evidently they do not allow dollar for dollar on deductions such as FICA, income taxes etc…)
Then from that “available income” they are asking for 30%!!!</p>
<p>That # was under the 200k cap…and they want 30%!!! from the parents…</p>
<p>On top of that, that want $1500 from our kiddo in summer earnings-kiddo doesn’t have $1500 cash,
they want $850 from kiddos acct (stock) which is worth less than 5k total, so kiddo’s acct will effectively be gone in 3 yrs…
AND they want kiddo to work on campus (on top of classes and varsity sport) for an additional 3k a year</p>
<p>So I called to ask about this and thats what it is–</p>
<p>When I asked why we weren’;t being offered the 10% cap on income like they have in their book about affordability–she said “your case doesn’t fit under that”…
I asked WHY–she said…I will have to have someone else call you back, it won’t be today.</p>
<p>OMG…Not only are they not allowing dollar for dollar what we pay into FICA, taxes and medical (we had over $30k in other medical expenses last year), they want ALL of the SEP contribution included in income!! And that SEP was on the business side of the tax returns not the personal…and its a business deduction!</p>
<p>The “institutional method” is a mess…</p>
<p>Sorry Fog Fog. I know you were hoping for better news. I don’t know if I should feel better or worse that I shared my disappointment. I didn’t bother to call up and question, though. And this is NOT HYP that we got ours from.</p>
<p>I figure it’s the pretax contributions. I guess they don’t want anyone to retire, rather we should all shell out the cash to put our kids through school and hope they find jobs that pay not just enough to pay off the loans, but enough to support what we lost on those retirement funds!</p>
<p>I hope you will have better luck with your next person, or if there are other schools you’re waiting to hear from. Could it be that times are tough all around?</p>
<p>Yours sounds like it was more detailed than ours. Ours just said the amount qualified for: $0. :/</p>
<p>We submitted the completed Profile, and we sent 2009 tax returns…our 2010 will be about 20% LOWER…</p>
<p>My spouse is self employed and we have decent #s from quicken etc.</p>
<p>How can they NOT take dollar for dollar out for FICA and txes, it is no longer “available income” so how can they add that in? </p>
<p>And WHY aren’t we limited to the 10% </p>
<p>We are very very clearly under the cap…and have no assets…nothing -our house is upside down…</p>
<p>Such a pretty chart in their pretty book…</p>
<p>And the woman on the other end of the phone couldn’t explain why…</p>
<p>sigh</p>
<p>well, I will be interested to hear what the next person will say - I certainly can’t explain why they don’t go dollar for dollar … do you get it all back ? tax shelter you don’t know about?</p>
<p>good luck with it, keep us posted - hope it doesn’t knock a favorite school out of the running for you</p>
<p>We dont have any odd tax shelters, nor did we get stuff back…and we were still udner the threshold.</p>
<p>I have learned they take all income, take only a portion of deductions out,
and they add back any IRA and SEP contributions etc.</p>
<p>then from that #–they asked for 30%! </p>
<p>If our student goes here–there will be loans–no way around it…even if the school says their packages dont include loans…</p>
<p>Like Wilberry228, Ours came back with just the amount We were qualified for. —> $0.
This came from an Ivy.</p>
<p>fogfog, is 30% for expense or just tuition?</p>
<p>have you been looking at schools other than the ivies?</p>
<p>cc1979 … we got the goose egg from an ivy too, as well as one LAC so far –</p>
<p>So sorry, fogfog!</p>
<p>I am wondering why the most recent school son visited did not request this (pre-read). Coach assured us ED1 was need-blind and he had significant pull in this round. We spoke with F/A and asked them about it and they said that a preliminary FA read would be given at the time of ED1 acceptance (if accepted). Admissions also concurred that athletes should apply ED1 and that they were need-blind for that round (and meet 100% of the very mysterious “demonstrated need”).</p>
<p>fogfog - Really sorry about your news. I know nothing about FA, but I am struck by how your student is meant to be giving money from a summer job, money from a small personal account AND making money with a job at school during the year. It is the last piece that most amazes me - your child would be a D1 athlete at an academically challenging/competitive school, and that child is meant to hold down a job on top of all that? When will he have time for homework? Study? Research? Life outside of school and sports?! Wow, I guess I am really naive.</p>
<p>All I can do is wish you the best of luck - it sounds financially prohibitive, and I hope you can get better answers from the person who will contact you next. GOOD LUCK!!</p>
<p>mayhew, I can’t address all the issues fogfog is facing, but I can say finaid at our school has been really clear about the expectations from students. They have also provided my daughter with a well-paying job in the office for her sport. She is often paid for attending and/or helping at events she would have to go to anyway, and feels very lucky to work with the coaching staff on the projects they have for her. She can always shift her hours around to suit her academic schedule, or take time off if she needs to. I know it sounds impossible to fit it all in, but I think she actually enjoys and values her time in the office as much as any other part of her week, and she has some skin in the game. Not as much as her dad and I though. Ours feels more like a pound of flesh.</p>