What Future are our MT's Training For?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>There was a discussion on the NYU/Tisch board that might be interesting to those finalizing school choices. Specifically, that discussion was about whether an MT should focus training on being well prepared for the ensemble (specifically with dance training) to increase their odds of working after graduation.</p>

<p>That discussion brought back my more general questions/concerns about what our child should gain from 4 years in college. Clearly there is no single "right" answer, but your answers guide school choices - or should.</p>

<p>My leaning (and remember this has EVERYTHING to do with who a child is and family background), and one ultimately adopted by our D, was first toward getting a solid university education on her life-resume, second toward building very strong entrepreneurial skills around ALL aspects of theatre (since in my experience working in theatre is like running a small business) and making the best and widest possible group of contacts and connections to help sustain a lifetime of professional work. Then of course there was the question of getting top-notch skill-training (which she certainly is), though frankly I did NOT consider that the top consideration since great voice and dance training at a reasonable cost can be found in any major city and we expect that aspect of her training will continue well beyond 4 years of college. </p>

<p>Based on the fairly large group of professional theatre people I know, the future I envision for our D involves some time spent doing professional theatre (which she LOVES), but also includes non-theatre employment at least part-time, and the possibility that some time in the future she might decide she wants to settle down and have a house or family and maybe even switch careers completely.</p>

<p>Obviously our kids will create their own futures, but I'm curious to hear what future you and/or your kids are training for, and how that guides your school/training choices.</p>

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<p>As an example of how the answer varies by student… much as I love our D and am swept away by her talent and work ethic I will eat a pair of Capezio’s (assume they’d taste better than La Duca’s) if she is ever cast as a primarily-dancing ensemble member on Broadway. ;-D </p>

<p>This is NOT to say I can’t see her on The Great White Way, as I absolutely can, but not as a dancer… no matter WHAT classes she took for the coming 4 years!</p>

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<p>Actually, MomCares, that sounds pretty much exactly like what I envision as the purpose of the education we are hoping for our D. Well put.</p>

<p>Because she is changing her concentration to costuming, she might possibly stay in the field longer or have better job prospects than she might have in performance - but I consider either performance or tech to both be very broadening work experience that is worthwhile whether they stay in that field or not. (beats the hell out of anything <em>I</em> did in my early twenties…they’ll have fun and great stories either way)</p>

<p>There is the lingering question of grad school but as just her undergrad will pretty much exhaust our higher education budget and as opposed as our family is to huge debt, it’s something to still think long and hard about.</p>

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<p>@snapdragonfly - so happy to hear your D is glad to have chosen a school that also supports her amazing costuming talents!</p>

<p>I know others who are very rightly studying toward a different future. D has friends who are AMAZING dancers who have a very realistic shot as BWay dancers and beyond, as well as friends with Soozievt’s D’s additional musical talents who will likely work non-stop in various capacities even before they graduate.</p>

<p>It will be SO exciting to watch the varied things these amazing kids will do!</p>

<p>I do think it’s good to have a somewhat realistic view of the future, though, when planning a course of study. </p>

<p>Oh, the places you’ll go!!</p>

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<p>MomCares, it is an interesting discussion. Keep in mind that a lot of this will evolve for these college kids once in college. Part of college is exploring and seeing what tweaks your interest. Then, sometimes things also evolve as one thing leads to another and so on. I am not positive I could have known everything my daughter would end up doing after college back before she attended. </p>

<p>I do know that her life has revolved around theater and music from a very young age and it is truly a part of her being and I have always known that she’d work in the field because she just would not NOT be able to. Also, she often creates work and opportunities for herself rather than waiting for every opportunity to come to her (though both happen of course). </p>

<p>My daughter’s career thus far (almost 3 years out of college, and is currently 23 years old) involves pursuing several areas at one time. Admittedly it makes for a very very busy hectic life because any one of these fields could be a full time pursuit. </p>

<p>Here are her areas:</p>

<p>1) Musical Theater performance - includes being in musicals, MT oriented showcases/cabarets, musical readings and workshops, other theater works (including a so-called psycho-opera), and a weekly original comedic musical show (performs and writes for that), performing in her own original musical. She is Equity (that happened right after college graduation, her first audition, cast in a role on a National Tour). Has a talent agent.</p>

<p>2) Singer/Songwriter (performance) - NOT MT genre, but more rock/pop/folk/jazz…own album, regular solo gigs (with back up band) in venues in NYC (including a weekly residency at one venue), contracted by MTV Online to write/compose/perform a music video, contracted by a new YouTube channel to write/compose/perform (as star) a web series that is her orignal songs, performs with other singer/songwriters, other gigs that showcase her as a songwriter (asked by various venues)</p>

<p>3) MT writer/composer/lyricist - did not set out to do this as a career but did write one musical before graduating and that musical has gone onto various significant workshops, showcases, produced in NYC, will be part of a mainstage season at a BFA program, has a theater literary agent, commissioned by a major theater to write a new musical, is composer in residence for 2012 at a theater in NYC which includes a commission to create a new work among other things, showcases featuring her as a MT writer/composer at various city venues/events, in talks with some major companies in the industry interested in her in this capacity too. </p>

<p>4) Jobs to earn money on a regular basis include piano accompaniment for classes (college, pre-college, HS programs) and individuals, coaching, vocal performance teacher and musical director for a teen MT program, musically directing musicals at a BFA program, musically directing shows elsewhere with high school and college programs, teaching music classes to toddlers with their parents, high school choral programs, private piano lessons, recording CDs for others, accompanist for shows for a company that puts on original theater for kids in schools and such.</p>

<p>(in between those things, she has had other things going on such as she won a MacDowell Fellowship and spent time doing a residency at MacDowell Colony to create new work and sometimes has gone on writer retreats and next week will be on the other side of the country working on her new musical as a retreat at that theater)</p>

<p>That is a snippet of what one MT graduate is doing. She likes all those facets of the field and while it makes for a very busy life to keep them ALL going, it also pretty much keeps her working in performing arts as she is not relying on just ONE thing or on being cast. She barely has time to attend auditions and her life does NOT revolve around them.</p>

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<p>Aren’t they all training to have the biggest presence that they possibly can on stage (or screen) be it as an actor, costumer, dancer, choreographer, lyricist, composer, script writer, accompanist or by supporting other actors as a teacher, coach, manager etc. Why on earth would they go to school for theatre/MT were not for that reason?</p>

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<p>@halflokum - Yes, I agree they are ALL training to reach their fullest potential! My thought, though, is that means something very individual for each and every kid. </p>

<p>For example, IMHO it would be silly for our D to be training with an eye toward becoming a Broadway dancer – and by that I DON’T mean that she doesn’t need a ton of great dance training to become a working MT singer/actor. I just mean that HER greatest potential is realistically not as a dancer, OR as a composer or accompanist like Soozievt’s D (since she hasn’t studied piano since childhood and has exhibited no passion for composing). </p>

<p>In her particular case, given the breadth of her interests, I also don’t think the future she’s training for is that of a full-time performer for the rest of her life, so that might lead her to make different school choices than someone who you could never see doing ANYTHING else. I have a nephew, for example, who was always destined to be a visual artist and any deviation from that training was really a waste of his time and we all knew it. </p>

<p>I think the college selection phase is SO exciting, because it’s the first time when the rubber really hits the road as far as kids getting serious about visualizing their unique futures.</p>

<p>I totally agree with Soozievt that college is a great time for exploration, and for kids like mine who – although singing has been a huge part of her world forever – aren’t necessarily only focused on a future as a performer it’s nice to land in an environment that allows for plenty of broad exploration. For others, that exploration would honestly be a waste of time.</p>

<p>D knows kids who now see their future using theatre for social change, or as a theraputic tool, or as a form of health care education or… There are a lot of cool paths that our MT kids may follow, some of which will have nothing to do with maximizing performance opportunites.</p>

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<p>MomCares, just want to clarify that while I know my kid’s life is likely always going to be involved in theater and music in some capacity, she also likes academics and was always a very strong student. So, one reason she liked NYU was that there was some academics and it was in a challenging university. She also has always been interested in current issues and such. She also from a young age was always a gifted writer. She loves to create. One of the many things she is involved in is a performance group where all the actors/singers ALSO write all the material and the show is weekly in NYC and changes week to week. The entire cast are Tisch alums. The show is comedic and consists of original monologues, sketches and songs about current issues of the day. That means that the cast must be up on politics and current issues (she stays abreast of these) in order to write comedic songs and sketches about these issues and topics. Also, like you wrote, she too is interested in theater to affect social change. I recall in college she was in a little theater company with that mission in fact at the time. Back in high school, she created an entire event that included performing and a power point presentation at a venue in our community all about peace to raise funds for Amnesty International. </p>

<p>As far as writing and composing musicals, she didn’t really plan on doing that past college and has no formal training in any of it. But she did want to challenge herself in creating one before she graduated and so she did. (plus she believed that one should create theater in order to give themselves opportunities to perform and she played a lead in this musical in several of the productions of it to date) It is just that that musical went onto signficant workshops and showcases, including an Equity production in NYC, and was a finalist for a Richard Rodgers Award and she does care about that musical continuing on. She had not planned on writing any more! But when a major theater in the US saw a sample of her first musical, they selected her for a commission to write a musical for them, even though she is not trained in it and had only written one musical ever! The other commissions, for example, from this theater for new musicals went to Broadway writers/composers and Tony winners and so on and some of the new plays commissioned went to Pullitzer winners and the like. She said, “if someone is going to pay me all this money to write a musical, I certainly will do it!” and it makes a great" “survival job!” But she will not ever give up performing because even though she is a creator, she loves performing. </p>

<p>The other thing is that even though my kid loves MT, she also loves popular/contemporary music and her voice strength is in the rock/pop/folk/jazz area, even though she can sing legit MT. So, she is very into pursuing that area as well and frankly a lot of the MT performers she knows, some of whom have been on Broadway, also have records and gigs in the city. But to do this, you can’t just sing covers, because to book significant venues, as she has been doing, you have to have original songs. Her concerts are primarily all original songs, plus occasional original arrangements of existing songs. </p>

<p>She doesn’t wait around to be cast. She is performing typically about 3 times per week on stage in NYC. She creates this work and has networked enough that she is constantly performing. And she also gets cast in things of course, but performs 2-3 times per week in NYC when not even cast. In fact, she has to give up some of her own shows and concerts when she is cast in something, like when she does the show she is cast in Australia coming up. </p>

<p>Every college is different but one thing that I think is true at NYU/Tisch and at a place like Northwestern, is that the kids are not solely focused in being cast in musicals (and doing some unrelated survival job while hoping to be cast in a musical) but actually work in many facets of theater and music and create new works and opportunities. This forum talks so much about being cast after graduation and also about making it to Broadway and such, but there is sooooooooooo much more to a life in theater and music and in that regard, that is what my kid is doing. She is trained as a MT performer but is doing more than that and not relying on just one area, but pursuing many. This is not only because she truly enjoys these different facets I mentioned of the field, but also increases the odds of doing work in music and theater because she has her foot in many things. I think that is one reason why she works a lot and is making every cent from theater and music endeavors and not unrelated survival jobs (nothing wrong with those of course). </p>

<p>Anyway, even a kid who likes academics and is a very strong academic student, may still decide to focus their career in theater/music only, even if they are good in other areas. Her intellect, and writing and creative skills, come in handy in several of these jobs she does. It is not just the singing, dancing and acting training!</p>

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<p>I think you know, and hope others here also know, that I am VERY aware that many incredibly bright kids want to do nothing but MT and rightly choose schools consistent with that desire. My nephew who was always all about visual art is one of the most intelligent people I know, and is building a very successful career in that challenging field. In fact, one thing I missed most when I stopped doing professional theatre and became an engineer was working with SO many incredibly intelligent people! </p>

<p>Similarly, some of the most artistically talented people I know have NOT wanted to focus solely on performing and pursued very different dreams in college. It’s all good. </p>

<p>The point of this discussion is NOT that all smart kids need more than MT, but only that EVERY kid might benefit from imagining the future they hope for and trying to choose a school that best moves them toward that goal. This seems so obvious, but I still hear a lot of kids asking others to tell them which school to pick when the BEST answer is such a personal reflection of the future THAT student wants (and if, as you said earlier, all they “want” is a lifetime career starring on Broadway I’m not sure they’ve given the subject clear-headed thought)!</p>

<p>Plus I hope that those kids who are NOT laser-focused on performing consider schools that allow them to sample a broad variety of experiences, so they can go through the more open-ended exploration that so many kids benefit from in college.</p>

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<p>Then again, there is the point of view that the most useless degree is the one you never finish…if theatre is something they love enough that they’ll stick out college and get that degree as opposed to going in for a degree in something “practical” which bores them so much that they’d rather be uneducated than face a life of working in that field - then no matter what they end up doing, they are better off trying to do it with a theater degree than none at all. There have been many discussions on the broad spectrum of desirable skills that come with a theatre degree.</p>

<p>Of course they want to pursue a lifetime in that field, the vast majority of them, because jeez, once you join the world of theater a lot of other things look kinda dull :smiley: . But I agree with Suzievt that college is a place to explore and I guess I think that nobody can know what the future holds. If they love MT, then they are getting the best training they can to pursue that - but if they end up on a different path, unless they decide they want to be a rocket physicist or something, I think theater training is as good of a background as many and better than quite a few.</p>

<p>My daughter never wanted any world but theater (though she’s apparently happy to be backstage too) but she did want a broader college experience - definitely not a conservatory, and she wanted a little more core than most BFA’s and a little less than most BA’s so we found a program like that.</p>

<p>Though she’s so excited about costumes after USITT that she told me she’s ready to be DONE with her core classes now. Too late! She only has a few left and they won’t kill her…and I do think all types of learning and experience is something theater kids can incorporate into their craft.</p>

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<p>This reminds me, my SIL who is a teacher once commented at an opening night… “No one brings me roses every time I start a new class”!</p>

<p>Seriously, though, I would be very interested to hear what future other people’s MT child (or yourself if you are a student) is training for?</p>

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<p>I think first and foremost, my D is training in how to do life. Though i knew it was coming, i was simply amazed by the growth in her as a person in just the first semester!</p>

<p>She is definitely learning a lot in terms of acting, singing and dancing…but she is also getting more practice at working hard, being a team player, coping with the ups and downs of real life, living with someone she has only known for 6 months (successfully)…at Webster there is a huge focus on text and character analysis and study in the acting classes. So she is doing copious amounts of research and investigation. She is reading and writing a lot…and she is learning how to survive on very little sleep!</p>

<p>We had the privilege of having dinner at a fundraiser, with a couple of grads of D’s high school this last fall, who are both Broadway veterans. One of them said something really great to one of the kids who was very stressed about which school was “best”. He said something along the lines of, “That question is really less important than you are making it in the bigger picture. The most important question was already answered, “Do i want to be an artist?” You already said yes to that. The school, the jobs along the way are just steps in the process…they will take care of themselves if you answered that first question honestly.” I feel like that was really a great little nugget of wisdom for those kids (and this parent) to hear.</p>

<p>I feel like that is what my D is training for. She is learning how to do life as an artist. That may take her to Broadway, it may take her to one of our local regional theaters…it may take her to Hollywood…i imagine she will act (and sing and dance) at some point…i think she also thinks casting sounds like a cool job and so does teaching. I know she will want a family someday. Her goal in finding a school was an MT program with a heavy acting focus. That was because she feels like the MT piece can’t last forever for her…that there is much more potential for career longevity and variety with stronger acting training. But that is such an individual thing. </p>

<p>Interesting discussion.</p>

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<p>Great way to express it because that is what I see with my kid. She is an artist. The details are not as important as that is who she is as a person.</p>

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<p>I love that. ^^^</p>

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<p>This is all so interesting, as we are just starting to focus on the college search (D is a sophomore). I think right now she pictures herself as a working Chicago actor — similar to her life when she was working professionally prior to entering high school. Except that she wouldn’t be able to turn down auditions that didn’t appeal to her and will need to accept understudy parts, since she will need to support herself.</p>

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<p>My daughter wants to act, nothing more, nothing less. She does not want to be behind the stage or camera, she does not want to compose or write, direct or stage manage, just act. That is her focus, her only focus. Now that she’s a junior she is thrilled to be done with her mandatory electives and non-acting requirements (although I believe she has one left that she’s save for senior year) she is thrilled to be focusing only on classes that will improve and expand her abilities in acting, voice, and dance. Is it a bit limiting? Perhaps, but it’s her choice. </p>

<p>Outside of acting she loves history and tries to take at least two history classes a year. She finds these compliment acting greatly, knowing what was happening both during the time the author was writing and during the time the author was writing about. She is starting to think that being a history professor might be a “retirement” option in the distant future - which would make my husband so very happy!</p>

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<p>This discussion brings back memories for me of all those college application essays my daughter had to write when pursuing a BFA in MT program. Here we are talking about being an artist and how for many, including my kid, this is at the core of their being. The details of what college they attend or what jobs they do after college are not nearly as significant as the fact that their “person” cannot be separated from the artist within. My kid has always been an artist and a creator and there just is no way that will ever stop being the case because it is part of herself, not just a job or a college major. </p>

<p>So, this discussion reminded me of how she talked about this in some of those app essays and I just looked back at them. Of course quoting essays out of the context of the entire essay doesn’t make as much sense, and I’m surely not gonna copy the whole essays here. She likely would not be keen on my even quoting them but I think there are some quotes that are relevant to this thread topic of what are our MT’s training for because she wrote these essays right around her 16th birthday (which is when she applied to college) and these thoughts ring true today as a graduate of a MT program who is pursuing her life as an artist. So, forgive the totally out of context quotes but there are some words from that time at age 16 that say what I was trying to explain she felt then and feels now as a professional artist…(in other words, these quotes relate to the thread topic points here on the forum, but don’t work so great out of context of the essay!!)</p>

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<p>in reference to creating an original musical revue in HS…</p>

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<p>^^^ refers to an earlier part in the essay and an anecdote with an amazing and inspiring director/performer she worked with at her theater camp, David Connolly (look him up!!!)</p>

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<p>For those who see themselves as artists, they can’t NOT do it. It is part of who they are. They may wear different hats and get involved in a variety of jobs after graduating college, but they will never be removing the hat of artist.</p>

<p>The quotes are an attempt to hear from the horse’s mouth as I am just a mom. But those words were written before going to college and ring true now as a professional artist, for my daughter.</p>

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<p>While every one of our children and we as parents, hope our kids reach the pinnacle of their career in performing arts, I for one am realistic. My D has a lot of talent, but it really does come down to a lightening strike of luck; the right director at the right time seeing something that makes he or she choose out of all the other amazing talent.
Because of this realism, we are insistent that D prepare to approach MT and Performing Arts from a business perspective as well, and consider non performing aspects of the field, even if that means ultimately owning and operating her own studio.
Her vocal coach gave her a fantastic pep talk yesterday that summed it up beautifully :
“Give all that you have to this the next four years. Suck up all that living in NYC has to offer. Think outside your box. Look at Performing Arts from EVERY perspective; consider all avenues; watch a director work, watch and learn about creating scenery, writing musical scores, all of it. Do NOT limit yourself to only what your major entails. YOU make your education worthwhile. Use your free time to sit in on other classes throughout the city. You might just find a different passion.” </p>

<p>He went on to say “I wish I had a crystal ball that could tell me whether you’ll make it big or not. I wish I could tell all my students that. But what I CAN say is that I have students who have had leading roles in one production, go on to be part of an ensemble in another, and they were OK with that because THEY LOVE WHAT THEY DO. It’s a business of feast or famine, and you better be ready to adjust your life to living in both states. You also better be ready to work harder than you ever have because now you’re a little fish in the big pond that is NY. Learn from this experience, and find the joy in it”</p>

<p>I was so glad he was prepared with that talk. She walked away with confidence and a dose of reality, and I think all of our kids need that from time to time. This is not an easy profession, not by a long shot. And they know this, just based upon the sacrifices they have already made to get where they are.</p>

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<p>There are also different ways to pursue this field. My daughter will comment about several peers who who work survival jobs unrelated to the arts and audition and wait to be cast and are not full time immersed in performing arts (but only if and when they are cast), but that is not at all how she has approached her working life since graduating from a BFA program. For one thing, she creates many of her own opportunities. She performs several times per week so that she is always performing whether or not she is also cast in a musical/theater show. Also, she is pursuing several aspects of theater and music, not only because she enjoys them all, but this way, she is almost guaranteed to be working in some way in theater and music. There are times she is doing more musical theater or times she is doing more singer/songwriter contemporary music and times she is composing, etc. She has something going in several areas at any given time. It is hectic but she is ALWAYS working and she is entirely in performing arts and she is regularly performing on stage in NYC (and sometimes elsewhere). She has told me she could never be that person who is doing some misc. job waiting for a break to be cast. She HAS to perform and she has to be involved in music and theater as it is her life.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much for sharing these, Soozievt!</p>

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<p>I love that she had actually envisioned the very specific many-hatted future she is currently living! She is somewhat unique in her ability to work as an accompanist, writer, music-director, comedian, actress AND MT performer PLUS having all of the skills and hustle of an entrepreneur! </p>

<p>I absolutely “get” the fact that our kids are destined to be artists. Based on the real lives of theatre artists I know, though, if the specific future they imagine involves nothing but being on stage they may be failing to lay groundwork for a large part of their futures.</p>

<p>Maybe it’s naive to hope that pre-college kids have realistic insight into their futures, and in the end the most important college coursework for aspiring theatre artists is Improvisation?</p>