<p>Thanks intparent, sorry I wasn’t clear. The 1570 score was for Reading and Math. Her total score was 2310s, so she was above the 2012 range of accepted students. Her inferred class rank, GPA and SAT scores were substantially higher than those of her 3 classmates who got in, she was the only Natl Merit and the only one with a current UT sibling. </p>
<p>UPDATE: GOOD TO KNOW FOR NEXT YEAR - the process has changed for OOS!</p>
<p>I spoke with three women: the Assistant Director of Out Of State Recruitment, the Director of Out Of State Recruitment and then with the assistant to the Director of Admissions. They all confirmed (the first, cordially, and the other two, not) that my d was rejected because she listed the Business School as her first choice, and she didn’t get in. She was then considered for her 2nd and 3rd choices AFTER her other 3 classmates were accepted to their 1st choices. Very confusing. </p>
<p>The first rep said (and the other 2 confirmed) that if a strong candidate from OOS does not get accepted to her first choice, it is assumed that this student will be “less inclined” to attend the school of her 2nd or 3rd (“undeclared”) choice. She will therefore be considered for her 2nd and 3rd choice BEHIND those OOS students who listed the latter 2 as their 1st choice. Confusing but accurate. </p>
<p>This, the assistant explained, is their “new” method of evaluating OOS students. Although it contradicts what they did last year, what is stated on their website, the information they gave to 2014 applicants and what we were told, this year’s OOS applicants were chosen with the “new” unwritten method. It was a very circuitous way of saying, to sum it all up, that if you are a stronger candidate applying from OOS to UT Austin, your chance of acceptance will be directly influenced by your 1st choice of major. Said another way, stronger OOS candidates are assured of a level playing field with other OOS candidates only if they are applying to the same school. </p>
<p>When I asked about the contardiction between what they have stated to this year’s applicants and their new policy, the 2 senior reps curtly insisted that my daughter was free to appeal the decision or attempt to transfer after her freshman year. When asked if the information on their website regarding appeals would directly conflict with the actual process they use (as in the case of instructions for listing majors on the fresh app), they got really curt and repeated that she was free to appeal the decision. The last woman said that if my d appealed, the process would be the same, and she would be considered for her first choice, the Business School, where at that point, the spaces would already be filled. </p>
<p>I really appreciate all the kind wishes, help and good advice from the posters here. At least next year’s OOS applicants will have a small chance of discovering UT Austin’s new process. Hopefully, because of sites like College Confidential, this new info will be spread by the community and will help next year’s applicants! Thanks again so much.</p>
<p>It is actually common at state universities for frosh admission standards to vary by division or major, if some divisions or majors are enrolled to full capacity.</p>
<p>Well, that sucks, but at least you know what happened. Doesn’t mean you have to be OK with it, but at least you know. Your daughter sounds like a very intelligent and accomplished young lady. UT Austin’s loss will be some other college’s gain.</p>
<p>Thank you, MiddKid86!</p>
<p>I could understand that - if you’re applying directly to the UT Business school (one of the best in the country) you’re probably very interested in business and aren’t going to want to do something else. I don’t know if I agree with it, but I understand it. </p>
<p>I would have thought that having a sibling at UT would have changed the yield odds enough that they wouldn’t worry about admitting her to her 2nd choice. But you got it from the horse’s mouth, and they know their own predictive metrics a lot better than I do.</p>
<p>I agree Etuck24; it is understandable that they would use predictive metrics (good term from Hanna) to their benefit, but I disagree with their tactics as you do. Extracting that information from students through a calculated deception is highly unethical. UT is a very powerful, very wealthy political institution, so they don’t have to be ethical, and that’s just life. This has been a good lesson for my daughter to not always believe what you read, especially if it comes from a massive and powerful institution like UT. Sometimes, life isn’t fair, but I think there’s a silver lining in this cloud for her. She’ll be fine, and wiser as well. Thanks to everyone for your responses. </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing the response with us, jrdaughtermom. I’m sure it will prove helpful to many UT applicants in the future. Now you know that the decision was much more about them than about her! Please keep us informed about her results - it seems likely she’ll have much to celebrate when all decisions are in. Good luck! </p>
<p>Thank you, frazzled1, I can’t tell you how much all the kind support has helped. I do hope this info helps the kids who got duped this year to understand what happened, and hopefully, next year’s applicants will have a clearer picture. Anyone who needs help getting info on the new UT poicy for OOS apps is welcome to inbox me, and I’ll help if I can! Thanks again.</p>
<p>OP- your level-headedness and upbeat demeanor through this are really refreshing. I’m going to remember this thread next year when my son is going through the process. I probably won’t pull it off as well as you, but you set a great example. I’m sure you’ve passed the same values on to your daughter and she’s going to do fantastically well wherever she goes.</p>
<p>Hey Mobius911, I was just feeling sad for my girl, but your kind words turned that around. Thank you for that. You’ll do great next year - and email me if you don’t! It’s really helpful to have this CC cyber-community at your fingertips, and you’re ahead of the game on that ;)</p>
<p>I don’t know. She sounds very qualified. Maybe it was her essay? What did she say she wanted to major in? Maybe she asked for a highly sought after major and the other classmates did not? Perhaps too many out of state people applied? I know they like to vary the states. So if there were at least 3 others from one not so huge school applying, OOS at that, that could be the reason.</p>
<p>"… When asked if the information on their website regarding appeals would directly conflict with the actual process they use (as in the case of instructions for listing majors on the fresh app)…"</p>
<p>=)) </p>
<p>…ahem.</p>
<p>OK, I had to go away and process that – it was simply too good.</p>
<p>Objectively, I suspect they didn’t actively intend to say one thing on their webpage to trick the students into accurately stating the harder major they want more so they could winnow the herd, I suspect they changed the process mid cycle and just forgot to update the web page. Then didn’t appreciate your pointing it out.</p>
<p>Still an amazing line though…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I typically don’t encourage appeals but in this case I am not so sure I would not go that route. Spaces at McCombs will not necessarily filled Just because hundreds of kids have acceptances in hand does not mean they will all accept. I know the school factors in yield, but yield is a calculated estimate and there is fluidity in that number.</p>
<p>Hey Collegeshopping, thanks for your response. You make good points. Personally, I’m kind of glad she’s not going. It’s a shame that she won’t be with her sister for her first year of college. They’re very close, and they were both excited about the possibility of having that year together. It would have been great for me and my husband too because we love visiting. But she’s worked so hard, and she deserves to be proud of her success. I think she’ll get in to a great school on her own without having to beg to follow in big sister’s footsteps. It would be hard to watch her go thru that process and get turned down again. The women in the admissions office could care less anyway, that was made clear, so it’s hard to not move on. She’s looking forward and good options. Thank you for your message.</p>
<p>Collegevetting, you may be right (and thank you for your great comments). That’s what I thought, too, until one of the admissions women (and Hanna on here too) mentioned predictive metrics. I didn’t even know what that was until yesterday 
UT uses past data to predict how various types of applicants will react to different offers so that they can be more successful and raise their offer/acceptance rate, something it seems that any smart business would do. You probably know all this, so forgive me for repeating it, but I’m just learning. Anyway, in 2012, the business school (my d’s first choice) had over 7000 apps. That school is highly competitive because they are smaller and have fewer spaces, and of course, even fewer in you’re OOS. That year, McCombs gave out over 1400 offers. Only around half of those 1400 offers enrolled, and of that number, only 54 were from OOS. To improve their offer/accept ratio this year, they used their own predictive metrics to help them achieve that. No objections here. </p>
<p>On the application and website, they say that unless you are an international applicant, if you don’t get accepted to your 1st choice, you’ll be considered for your 2nd and then 3rd choice, if necessary. This is true. You will be considered, but that’s where the horns come out. That’s when the predictive metrics come in, and that’s where the obfuscation begins. In my d’s case, she fell into a small category of OOS applicants who don’t tend to accept at UT if they don’t get their first choice. It makes sense that in trying to improve their accept/enroll rate, UT would use that information to their advantage. That her sibling currently attends there didn’t make it into the metrics yet, I guess, but so far, no objections here.</p>
<p>The ethical problem is, do they have an obligation to reveal this to an applicant? I have no idea. Do they have an obligation to not deliberately mislead a student who asks this pointedly before applying, if misleading that student will benefit UT (their offer/accept ratio) and penalize that student’s chance of being accepted? I think that they have an ethical obligation to not deliberately mislead. And I use the term “not deliberately mislead” because I am trying to take the high road. </p>
<p>Granted, this is a new method they used just this year, and as you said, maybe their webpage/spokespeople/word to high schools hasn’t caught up with them. They may clarify it next year, but being honest would undermine what they are trying to accomplish in improving their accept/enroll rate. Personally, I think cows will fly before they do that. Applicants would just alter their approach, and that would undermine their numbers again. If UT admitted that there was a correlation in any sub group between being accepted to the university and being accepted to your 1st choice within the university, you’d have to be pretty sure you’d be one of the 54 out of 767 people from the 49 states outside of Texas to get accepted into McCombs before you’d put them as your 1st choice. </p>
<p>Thanks for your kind words and great comments. I appreciate the good thoughts.</p>
<p>Her SAT scores are too low. </p>
<p>^^The sat scores are higher than the middle 50. See above posts.</p>
<p>OP, oh goodness. First I have to complement you on your positive approach to this. You are a great role model and support for your daughter. Second, now I wonder how many other schools use similar processes. It feels a bit deceptive bc you weren’t able to decide - is the major more important or the environment/school. I’m also surprised they don’t want a student as stellar as yours. Your daughter deserves to be treated w respect and should be “academically recruited.” Yesterday we went to a university’s scholarship rec day. My girls were applauded and made to feel like the gems they are. We are considering this school now as a front runner. There’s a lot to be said for schools that appreciate their students. I see a bright future for your daughter. I’m just sorry that for a decision so important in life, it had to go down like this. Their loss. I hope you see it that way. Their loss bc your daughter would’ve been an asset. Just my 2 cents. Move on, head up. 
</p>
<p>3tallblonds, thank you for your kind words. I am so glad that your girls got the kudos they deserved and agree that there is much to be said for schools who appreciate their students. One thing that probably doesn’t factor in to UT’s predictive metrics is how their attitude towards their applicant affects his or her decision. (Or the parent’s!). In the overall scheme, this is not huge, and my d seems to have moved on. I am proud of how she’s handled it. Thanks again for your kindness, and good luck to your girls! They will do well, no doubt.</p>