<p>You know Kissy, I've never seen Michael Moore's movie. I would also like to point out that the enemy is Al Quaida and BinLaden not the democratic party and its constituents. I am angry at Bush for an unnecessary preemptive war and running up a dangerous budget deficit. Those are legitimate issues that should be discussed.</p>
<p>You know, Lizchup, I've never seen Michael Moore's movie, either. I try to lead a healthy lifestyle and that includes refraining from junk food for the brain. But, for each media report I came across of "outraged and energized viewers of F9/11," I met many more who were personally outraged and energized by Moore's slanderous and sleezy propaganda campaign. So, I'm being sincere in my thanks to him and the others for helping my candidate win. As far as your statement about who the true enemy is,I couldn't agree with you more. And, since Usama wanted to see a Kerry victory, what does that tell you? I'm in agreement with you re: the budget deficit and it <em>is</em> something that needs to be addressed. As far as the arguments of war go, I could poke holes in your arguments as I'm sure you feel could could in mine. So, I'll agree to disagree with you on that. :>) And, reconciling one's anger can lead to fruitful discourse of the issues at hand.</p>
<p>. "Where's the political and social will to seriously address this problem?"</p>
<p>I am all for better gun control laws and enforcing the ones we have,
however 100,000 iraqi civilian deaths should not be so easily dismissed either.</p>
<p>Reasonabledad: First you say Bush has no obligation to "shape policy in some middling manner". Later, you say the democrats must "stay to the right". So basically, whoever is in power is expected to make policy based on your opinion?
I've fed up with all of it, Republican/Democrat. I HATE THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM. My beliefs don't even come close to fitting well with either party. And if you look at Dems and Repubs all over the country, not all Dems even come close to agreeing on everything or vice versa with the Repubs.
It's ridiculous how people keep using the words liberal and conservative. Different people have totally different opinions of what each of those mean. There are people who think Bush is extremely conservative and their are others, like psycho radio commentator Michael Savage who think Bush is liberal. Those words are meaningless as is this black or white, one or the another view of America.
I'm against Affirmative Action, and for the Death Penalty.
I'm for Universal Healthcare and other government funded social programs including public education.
I beleive in small business and personal responsibility, but I also think as a human being I owe it to those who haven't had the same opportunities to help them.
I voted for Kerry, but would have exuberantely (sp?) voted for Mcain or Powell if either of them would have been running against Kerry.
However, I would have loved to see Dean be the democratic candidate. (By the way, Dean is MUCH more fiscally conservative than Bush).
My point, it needs to stop being about party politics and start being about 1)what is best for the country 2)listening to all the people and finding ways to compromise to best fit ALL the publics needs and 3)keeping America the place that our fore fathers meant it to be.
Of course, people will greatly disagree on how to implement 1 and 3; that is the issue, isn't it. That's why 2 is so important. I absolutely disagree that it is Bush's duty (or any other president) to appoint judges with his conservative values. It's his responsibility to appoint judges the way he says he wants to, by picking judges that truly try to interpret the constitution rather than try to mold it tho their beliefs. Bush is not a dictator; he does not get the right to decide what is right and wrong just because more than half the people support him. He works for us! It is his responsibility to listen to EVERYONE and make his decisions to best fit ALL needs. It's not an easy job. That's why I'll never run for president.</p>
<p>kissy: I have relatives that live in Northern Idaho, land of the white supremicists. Visiting there recently, some of these KKK members were spewing their hate of gays and endorsing Bush. Does that mean Bush shares their hateful views? Absolutely not. Does that mean if you believe in Bush's leadership and policies you shouldn't vote for him, just because he was endorsed by hateful people. Of course not. The argument that we shouldn't have voted for Kerry because Osama endorsed him is ridiculous. I hope most Americans vote based on the issues and not based on if the like or dislike others voting for the candidates.</p>
<p>heh..outraged..why...it was all true?..most of the facts were true?..saudis etc..all true..its not like he had fictional characters play their parts..it happened..he showed it..soo what, his documentary(not movie) is an example of propaganda..but the media isnt?..yes yes..a lot of people were angered by Moores documentary but they couldnt deny that it was true..a lot of it was true..soo there..angry because the truth was thrown in your face..</p>
<p>another thing..im from nyc and i really dont mind the people i know here that voted for Bush because honestly it doesnt affect their paychecks..they have jobs etc..but i dont understand the idiots who lost their jobs because of him but still voted for him because hes against gay/lesbian marriages..stupid..and abortion...Godd...abortion doesnt directly affect every family whereas economic issues do..another thing..i dont think..the government has any say when it comes to determining right and wrong marriages..just give ppl their dam rights..and thats why i liked kerry..bcuz he gave them their rights..this issue of gay rights is soo frightenly reminiscent of issues with race before the civil rights act was passed..descrimination was based on race before now its sexual orientation..neway </p>
<p>umm 4 more yrs..only 4 more yrs..right..agh..btw...most of the states that were democrat could relate more to the ppl overseas than ever with the people in the south..Our views are totally different..They are more foreign to us than the people in Europe..</p>
<p>And that's why if you look at the line of demarcation between North and South in the states' votes for the presidential office, it runs true to the Mason-Dixon line....scary thought that we haven't quite mended our Civil War differences!</p>
<p>def not..still divided..</p>
<p>"And, reconciling one's anger can lead to fruitful discourse of the issues at hand."</p>
<p>Reconciliation cannot be done alone. Anger can find a constructive outlet but not in the form of fruitful discourse between two parties if the one in power insists on their view only. I'm not holding my breath. I know what to do with anger when you hit a wall. You walk away, you find people who believe the way you do and you fight against it. We did it in Minnesota. My hope is that Minnesota is a trend. Minnesota already had its swing to the right and now its moving back to the center. We had a very tony elite suburb, Edina ,vote Democratic for the first time since it became a city sometime in the 50's. I see no hope or conciliation in this president nor the comments on this board of those who supported him.</p>
<p>Enjoy:</p>
<p>gee what a surprise. Mini, I read all the impending news of this on the blogs and I just have to resort to a state of denial when I read all that. I don't know if it's true but I think it is sad that half this country distrusts this administration so much that we believe that it might be.</p>
<p>And Mini why do you seem to take glee in the frustration of others? Are you being sarcastic or am I misreading?</p>
<p>My "glee" lies in the fact that we can have so much "fun" in reading so much into results that might hardly even be there! (as per post #219 which no one deemed necessary to answer.)</p>
<p>I have friends and family abroad in the Third World. Once you get a little bit of distance, you begin to see how similar the two candidates really were. Both Skull and Bones and silver spoons. Both in the pay of huge corporations. Both favoring the War in Iraq. Both favoring staying in Iraq. Both favoring WTO and globalization (thank you, Bill Clinton), the worst environmental nightmare in history. Both favor continuing the operations of the torture school in Fort Benning. Both see private health insurance as the solution rather than the problem to lack of health care. Both favor double dipping in drug research - taxpayers fork over billions for the research, and then pay a second time for the drugs. Both favor stiff sentences for nonviolent drug offenders. Both favor the Patriot Act. Both oppose gay marriage. Both favor a larger military. Both favor No Child Left Untested. Both favor huge public deficits (even if for different reasons). Both have no plan for the Middle East. Both believe that "growing the economy" is the way out of our "problems" (this is the core reason why "neo-liberalism" is bankrupt - it is basically an attempt at "conservatism with a human face", and at bottom it depends on mass deception.) Both favor huge tax breaks for the wealthy (yes, Kerry might have rolled back the latest series of tax breaks, but they were really just a drop in the bucket.)</p>
<p>I am sorry that you are frustrated. I'm not. Kerry lost (if he lost) because he was a terrible candidate. Tweedledum and Tweedledumber. You feel disenfranchised now. Live with it. I've learned how - it's nothing new for me. Take a deep breath. Join a jazzercise class. Listen to opera. Enjoy your children (if you have some). Read a good book. Write a letter to a friend you haven't spoken to in a long time. It helps.</p>
<p>Mini, I do all that and I do have two kids. I used to do quite a bit of posting on the parents forum last year. I have a sophomore in college and a Freshman in High School and I am currently in school for a change of careers. I have a full life, so I appreciate the advice but I know what to do with frustration. I don't really like dismissive answers like "live with it " , "get over it", and so on. Each to his own.</p>
<p>I don't like it either.</p>
<p>But it works for me.</p>
<p>Mini, great post! However, instead of reading a good book or attending an opera, I am compelled to read and respond to these posts!! I'm a prisoner of my own making! I will try to enjoy my children...who are still without adequate employment after two S's graduating from Ivy League schools and one D I will see this afternoon in Pittsburgh PA at Carnegie Mellon who will be asking and lamenting what went wrong in this election? She and all her friends voted Democratic.....she even got most of her friends to register so they could vote in one of of those "swing" states...how can I possibly explain to her that there may not be any social security left when she is age eligible? Both her parents will be gone then...what do I say? what do I say to her if they repeal the "Roe Vs. Wade" law and she has no right to choose what is best for her? I am afraid for our young people....they are in a country where in spite of their intelligence and hard work and devotion to their ideals of a true democracy they will be slipping further and further behind the eight ball.....</p>
<p>Mini:</p>
<p>I am in 100% agreement with your excellent post. For all of those who take politics (and defeat or victory for "their" guy) so seriously, I would recommend taking a week out of their lives to watch CSPAN coverage of the House or the Senate in action. They will quickly see that neither political party has cornered the market on hot air or disingenuous self-serving rhetoric. In fact, the two parties are in cahoots. They love to distract us with bitter, partisan rhetoric so that they are free to go about their real business -- servicing the needs of their respective special interest groups and cashing those campaign contribution checks.</p>
<p>Now, if that sounds cynical, it is. But, from years of reading about the workings of government, I have also come to the realization that on really important issues (like stopping terrorists from killing us), administration officials (Democrat or Republican, doesn't matter) really do try to serve us well. Do they get it right? No, of course not. There aren't a lot of easy answers. But, by and large, cabinet level guys, in any administration, are really bright people doing their best to serve their country. That's why I stopped "hating" a long time ago. Just because I may disagree with a particular administration on a particular issue doesn't mean that they are "idiots" or "evil". Heck, who's to say I don't have it wrong?</p>
<br>
<p>Here's a hint to Democratic strategists: stop nominating Massachussetts liberals and, for goodness sake, stop having Ted Kennedy appear on TV with them. Here's another clue: Barbara Steisand is not helping you. And another, don't lead with "gay marriage". And, don't base your entire foreign policy on seeking approval from the French. These are all losing strategies.<</p>
<br>
<p>You are right on the money, and as a fiscally conservative, socially conservative to moderate centrist, usually Rep, I hope they don't listen to you;)</p>
<p>Interesteddad: I wish I could be as "devil may care" "let the chips fall where they lie" cynical as thou. I still worry about my children's future. You may b independently wealthy and don't need to worry about the laws that will affect my children's future. You may have enough money to take your daughter to a foreign country for an abortion (God forbid!) You may be able to leave a nest egg so large that they do not have to rely on social security benefits in the future. You may have your own "in" with local heads of corporations that your children will walk out of college and into a lucrative corporate position without having to rely on finding a menial, but currently outsourced entry-level job. There are reasons why people are afraid. I work for a special education public school. The lack of funding for "No Child Left Behind" directly affects me and my ability to do the job that has been given to me. My real estate taxes are so high on my home $12,000/yr, more than half of which go to school taxes to fund this "NGLB" mandate that whatever I earn is not enough to send my children to private universities...and they are intelligent, hard-working, civic-minded, and involved in extra-curricular activities for the good of mankind and very capable of attending a Harvard or a PENN. My 95 yr old mo-in-law lives on social security benefits..the maximum..that if they weren't there, would be destitute after working until she was 84 yrs old! Her medications are costing $200/month and rising every year out of of this benefit not to mention the out of pocket costs every time she takes ill. The list goes on and on. I, unfortunately, cannot turn a deaf hear and blind eye to what our government might do in its passage of legislation that is going to prevent me, the member of the middle class, from reaping the benefits of all my years of hard work and self-discipline so that I could provide a better life for me and my family!</p>
<p>There is entirely too much gloom here, so I've attached links to two of my favorite recent entries from a very good political humor blog, Iowahawk.com
Enjoy
<a href="http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2004/10/new_abc_terror_.html%5B/url%5D">http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2004/10/new_abc_terror_.html</a>
<a href="http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2004/10/iowahawk_endors.html%5B/url%5D">http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2004/10/iowahawk_endors.html</a></p>