So I have around a 90 weighted GPA, but I don’t know where that stands in the class. Our school profile has no grade distribution or indication of what the top students have. My guidance counselor said I’d be second decile in a class of 351, but my school is very competitive and rigorous and many kids get into top schools each year.
I read this book called A is For Admission by Michelle Hernandez, and apparently if a school doesn’t rank, Ivies don’t look at the transcript and use only standardized tests to see the competency of the student academically.
She writes, “What can highly selective colleges do if they have absolutely no way to judge whether this hypothetical 93 GPA is truly excellent or just average for this high school? As you might guess, they are almost forced to ignore the entire high school transcript and rely instead on test scores. Since the high school transcript in this example has no meaning (in that the student cannot be placed in the overall context of the class), it becomes almost a nonfactor in the admissions process—four years of work wiped out in a single blow. Test scores now take a primary role.”
It is from 1997, but she worked as an AO at Dartmouth and knows the system pretty well. Thoughts?
Hm, that seems to make no sense. It is totally ignoring rigor of the course selections! Maybe it’s the age of that report, but it does not seem accurate, at all.
You can look at the Common Data Set for a university/college to see what importance they place on class rank. Also know that, with each application, the high school sends a school profile, so that the university/college knows the specifics of the schools’ curriculum, ranking system or lack thereof, and other things that can quantify that school. My son’s HS does not rank and it does not concern me in the least…there is plenty of other information in the rigor of schedule and grades.
But my school profile is vague and unhelpful. I’ll PM it to you so you can see how useless it is in calibrating anything. Just because a kid has a 3.9 UW doesn’t mean they are a stronger student than someone else with a 3.6 UW, even with similar course rigor. Schools aren’t the same.
As I have said many times on this site in reference to her: she has not set foot in an admissions office since skidad was a college applicant. Admissions has changed drastically since she was an AO; so what she said may have been valid back in the day, but that does not mean it’s still accurate.
Untrue. They will still look at the transcript. If there are multiple applicants applying to the same college, you should assume the AO will sort by GPA. Also, be aware that most US high schools do not provide and ordinal or cardinal rank; in these cases, they may provide decile guidance and the AO can make a guess bases on where your GPA falls in the decile range.
Of course admissions officers look at the transcript. They look at both course rigor and grades. Most admission officers are responsible for a certain territory and it is part of their job to be familiar with the high schools in the area they cover. Many many colleges do not rank. And many many colleges these days are test optional.
Your guidance counselor has given you a very solid indication of where you stand relative to your class. If your HS has Naviance that should give you an idea of what college applicants with your grades/standardized test scores get into.
As a bit of unsolicited advice – I would strongly recommend that you don’t worry/obsess about things you can’t change. Focus on what is in your control and prepare the best application possible.
Oh - I thought she revised it recently. What if my GC doesn’t provide a decile range? There’s no grade distribution or indication of quintile/quartile etc. on my school profile, only an example of the weighting (100 > 103.3 for Honors > 106.6 for AP/IB - Val usually has 98-100 W for instance)
We changed our scale 2 years ago from the 4.33 scale to the 100 scale. There are a few data points for some state schools on our Naviance for the new scale, but for most selective places I don’t know if there is enough to accurately pinpoint where I stand academically. If it matters or anyone cares, I have a 34 ACT, 730 Lit, 700 USH, and 690 Math II, along with a 5, 5, and a 3 on APUSH, AP World and AP Spanish respectively. Most kids at the top graduate with 6-10 AP’s - if I wasn’t doing full-time DE I would’ve graduated with 8.
I understand now that my transcript will obviously be scrutinized, but I’m still a little worried that regional AO’s won’t know about the grading at my school.
I hope I’m academically competitive. Admissions at T30s is a long shot for me and paying for it is a whole another dilemma. I just don’t want to be auto-rejected because of having a few too many B’s on my transcript.
@apost12: stop. Just stop. Take a deep breath. By your own post “many kids get into top schools every year” from your school. The system is clearly working at your school. Trust your GC. If your stats are reasonably in range you won’t be ‘auto-rejected’- but as you know, the competition for the tippy-tops is ferocious, so you still might not get in. That’s why you apply to schools with a range of selectiveness.
Pro-tip: save yourself a lot of pain and move paying for it to the 1st issue. You may find that the way you pay for it is to be a big fish in a less-flashy pond: finding schools who want you, your stats, your academic chops and are willing to give you the merit aid to make it worth your while.
I’m already 99% sure I will attend a safety next year; I would be happy to attend any of them. Just making sure I’m not wasting money on schools like Georgetown and Cornell.
It seems like a lot of high schools are moving in the direction of eliminating ranks, and colleges are aware of that. Sometimes a school will say they only offer scholarships to students with certain criteria (e.g., “3.5 unweighted GPA or higher, 30 ACT or higher and rank in top 10% of class.”) In those cases, you may be able to get your rank from your counselor. Sally Rubenstone recently covered this in an “Ask the Dean” column that offers some great advice. Cheers! https://www.collegeconfidential.com/articles/can-apply-scholarships-class-rank/
With a 90 weighted GPA and your guidance counselor saying you are in the second decile of the class, Gtown and Cornell must be viewed as big reaches. That said, it is perfectly fine to apply to a couple of reaches – just understand that is the case.
If your school is, as you report, competitive and regularly sending kids to top schools, those schools know it and know how to read the transcripts. This is why an AO handles a specific region. You can relax on that front. If your school has Naviance, that, coupled with feedback from the CC at your school, will be better at chancing you than any of us here.